[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

No.

Why? Oh, right because you can't. I can go through this thread and show you multiple things that have been ignored, simply because your ignorant minds cannot fathom thinking outside of the box. Your clouded biased opinions is what keeps you out of Heaven.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Feel free to prove what I have just said wrong.

No.

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

All your "points" have been refuted, most even multiple times. But you are too blind and too ignorant to notice. Talking with you is as useful as talking to a pile of garbage. It smells horrible and is completely pointless.

Oh, really? I see that you addressed one sentence (being the easiest one to continue the argument further) instead of addressing the entire attack I just laid onto you. Feel free to prove what I have just said wrong.

[Bible Student]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Originally Posted by Bible Student
Take the case of a skydiver. She can choose whether or not to jump out of the plane. You are an observer that sees that she is going to fall into an obstruction to her death and no physical laws can prevent that. Does the fact that you know what is going to happen to her affect her free will?

Now let us assume you can, and have decided to forewarn her of the danger, and have even written a message informing her of the danger. Can she not exercise her free will by not accepting your word? By not believing you?

If she believes your written word, she will be saved. If not, death is the result. How does your knowing the outcome affect her free will? How does her belief or disbelief affect her free will? How does her belief in your written word affect her free will?

Well, first of all she is skydiving and would be carrying a parachute, because she is an atheist, and has enough intelligence to bring one. Yet, you Christians would leap with "faith" that GOD will save you, but in fact be the one dying. For example, that young girl that just died from a staph infection. She would have not died if she received proper medical treatment, but instead was "healed" through prayer. She is now dead because of the ignorance of your beliefs. You had the faith that GOD would save her, but He didn't. On a serious note, everything you just stated has nothing to do with the point I was making, so I decided to respond as you did. We are talking about GOD, not myself knowing the outcome of someone's death, and trying to save them. There is no point to free will, if he already knows the outcome of what we are going to choose. The choice has already been made by him and as for the saving, we all day in the end. I'm sorry that you're that scared of death, but it happens.

OK, I see I asked more than one question so it taxed you wee little brain. Or maybe the example was too difficult for you to understand. At any rate you were not able to answer the specific questions about free will, even though you posited questions about the concept.

And you repeated your assertions about free will even though the example of the skydiver explained the concept. Try typing in larger, bolder type next time. You atheists seem to think we will believe your inanity sooner.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Every single one of you have failed to address the major points I have given

All your "points" have been refuted, most even multiple times. But you are too blind and too ignorant to notice. Talking with you is as useful as talking to a pile of garbage. It smells horrible and is completely pointless.

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

You are the only one, everyone else considers your life to be completely pointless.

Learn to read: 2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Learn to read: 2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

So you have been proven wrong by Pastor Manning and now suddenly you change the subject? Very mature...

We have proven that over and over now, but you are too stupid to even notice it. Have fun in Hell, I will have fun watching you burn there.

But I thought everyone had a purpose to life to worship GOD? I have the free will to worship him and ask for forgiveness, then would my life not be pointless? Why would GOD the almighty "perfect" being need to change his "perfect" book the Bible? If it is so flawless, then why have the need, or option to change it? Oh, because it was written by men and men are full of flaws, and not the actual word of GOD. If it were written by GOD, or inspiration by him, then him being omnipitent (knowing the future and all there is to know) would forsee these problems, and have passed on the perfect word through his disciples to write the Bible. Right there should be enough proof for you, but I see you're too ignorant to understand this. How have I been proven wrong by him? I simply stated that his statement was ignorant and that there is an explanation for gravity. Granted there is not an explanation concerning all things towards gravity, but the general concept can be explained. So I'm proven wrong because I didn't explain what he wanted me to? Every single one of you have failed to address the major points I have given, but choose to go for the smaller easier targets to feel more justified in your reasoning. It actually makes me sick that you consider yourself a Christian. Here is the true meaning of being a Christian: The Bible teaches that the good works we do cannot make us acceptable to God. Titus 3:5 says, “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” So, a Christian is someone who has been born again by God (John 3:3; John 3:7; 1 Peter 1:23) and has put faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8 tells us that it is “…by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
A true Christian is a person who has put faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ, including His death on the cross as payment for sins and His resurrection on the third day. John 1:12 tells us, “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” The mark of a true Christian is love for others and obedience to God’s Word (1 John 2:4, 10). A true Christian is indeed a child of God, a part of God’s true family, and one who has been given new life in Jesus Christ. All of that came from the very book you worship and so passionately quote, but you don't even know the true meaning of being a Christian. You alter His meaning in the book you worship to justify your insane reasoning.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

I don't consider my life to be pointless.

You are the only one, everyone else considers your life to be completely pointless.

Where is your proof of the Bible being that old and GOD's word?

Learn to read: 2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Have you not forgotten that the Bible was written by man himself? Man is far from a flawless creature, so how can your Bible be flawless?

Learn to read: 2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Yes, I'm ignorant on the things you wished for me to prove concerning gravity, but I didn't even bother looking into it, because this does not concern a discussion over gravity

So you have been proven wrong by Pastor Manning and now suddenly you change the subject? Very mature...

for the 1,000th time prove to me there is a GOD.

We have proven that over and over now, but you are too stupid to even notice it. Have fun in Hell, I will have fun watching you burn there.

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Dear Teach me,

You sound a bit like Ecclesiastes when he says "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity". (Ecclesiastes 1:2) Whether or not you consider your life to be pointless is up to you of course. I find my own life of worshiping God to be very meaningful, fulfilling and rewarding.

Well, I do know it to be true, since it is in the Bible. But I agree I can not prove it, just like you can not prove that tree is actually 9,550 years old. In the end it is up to us to decide what we choose to believe. A flawless Bible or bumbling scientists.

You were the one claiming my statement about gravity to be nothing but a joke. I noticed you are avoiding my question on presenting an explanation for gravity here, so I assume you now also agree there is no scientific explanation for gravity. Only a few theories which are known to be very flawed.

I am afraid you have missed the point of our conversation completely. It seems I overestimated your ability to comprehend.

Yours in Jesus Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

I don't consider my life to be pointless. I love my life and living every day of it. Life is precious and people take it for granted everyday. Here is a link that shows the proof explaining carbon dating (how they dated the tree): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating Where is your proof of the Bible being that old and GOD's word? Oh, wait you go by faith that it is. Have you not forgotten that the Bible was written by man himself? Man is far from a flawless creature, so how can your Bible be flawless? I saw a thread in which several of your members agreed that man is not flawless, thus making the Bible not flawless as well. Also, if it were so flawless, then why did the church feel to alter the contents in it, or to censor some of the teachings? Yes, I clamied that your statement that you made before was a joke. Yes, I'm ignorant on the things you wished for me to prove concerning gravity, but I didn't even bother looking into it, because this does not concern a discussion over gravity, but you proving to me GOD does exist. You state that I have missed the point of our conversation? You sir, missed the entire point of this thread. Please, for the 1,000th time prove to me there is a GOD.

[Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Dear Teach me,

Sorry, my last post was a copied response to someone else.

No problem, mistakes happen.

You don't see what logic has to do with this? Logic has to do with everything. So we're made for the sole purpose of worshipping GOD, but we have the free will to do so or not. Yet, he already knows the decision, so what is the point to living an entire lifetime on Earth, if he already knows? Or is it that he is some sort of robot that is ran off of your ignorance and powered by worship?

You sound a bit like Ecclesiastes when he says "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity". (Ecclesiastes 1:2) Whether or not you consider your life to be pointless is up to you of course. I find my own life of worshiping God to be very meaningful, fulfilling and rewarding.

My proof is that you say the Earth is 6,000 years old, but there is a tree alive that is 9,550 years old. I'm guessing that's made up too. But from what you said, you haven't lived over 100 years either, so how do you know the Bible was created so long ago, and actually the word of GOD? You don't know

Well, I do know it to be true, since it is in the Bible. But I agree I can not prove it, just like you can not prove that tree is actually 9,550 years old. In the end it is up to us to decide what we choose to believe. A flawless Bible or bumbling scientists.

This argument is not about explaining gravity.

You were the one claiming my statement about gravity to be nothing but a joke. I noticed you are avoiding my question on presenting an explanation for gravity here, so I assume you now also agree there is no scientific explanation for gravity. Only a few theories which are known to be very flawed.

I can sit here and think up theories that you cannot prove either, but that will not get us anywhere, or become closer to what I have asked for in almost every single post. PLEASE, SOMEONE PROVE TO ME THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!

I am afraid you have missed the point of our conversation completely. It seems I overestimated your ability to comprehend.

Yours in Jesus Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Dear Teach me,

I do not see what logic has to do with this. It's just the way God created everything. Whether or not His grand plan is logical to you is completely irrelevant. You can compare it to an ant not understanding the logic of the little boy burning him with a magnifying glass. The ant not understanding the logic of the little boy will not change his suffering, at all. And the difference between the ant and the little boy is very small compared to the difference between God and men. We are way to small to even begin to understand God. All we can do is what we have been created to do. Worship God until the day we die and hope He allows us to enter Heaven.

I must have missed your proof, but the Bible is very clear on the age of everything being about 6,000 years. And people claiming something is over 6,000 years old and just making things up. Most of these people haven't even lived over 100 years so there is no way they can really know things about thousands of years ago.

Really? Then please provide the scientific explanation for gravity. And don't forget your explanation has to cover aspects like extra fast stars, the Pioneer anomaly, the flyby anomaly, accelerating expansion, the anomalous increase of the astronomical unit, extra energetic photons, dark flow and extra massive hydrogen clouds. Scientists all over the world will be thrilled that you have solved a puzzle they have been unable to solve for centuries.

Because she is in Heaven now. She is happier now than either of us can even imagine.

Yours in Jesus Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

Sorry, my last post was a copied response to someone else.

You don't see what logic has to do with this? Logic has to do with everything. So we're made for the sole purpose of worshipping GOD, but we have the free will to do so or not. Yet, he already knows the decision, so what is the point to living an entire lifetime on Earth, if he already knows? Or is it that he is some sort of robot that is ran off of your ignorance and powered by worship? My proof is that you say the Earth is 6,000 years old, but there is a tree alive that is 9,550 years old. I'm guessing that's made up too. But from what you said, you haven't lived over 100 years either, so how do you know the Bible was created so long ago, and actually the word of GOD? You don't know, so you're just as wrong as I am in that sense. This argument is not about explaining gravity. I can sit here and think up theories that you cannot prove either, but that will not get us anywhere, or become closer to what I have asked for in almost every single post. PLEASE, SOMEONE PROVE TO ME THE EXISTENCE OF GOD! According to one of your members she is actually in Hell. Would you care to explain that?

[Teach me]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Dear Teach me,

I do not see what logic has to do with this. It's just the way God created everything. Whether or not His grand plan is logical to you is completely irrelevant. You can compare it to an ant not understanding the logic of the little boy burning him with a magnifying glass. The ant not understanding the logic of the little boy will not change his suffering, at all. And the difference between the ant and the little boy is very small compared to the difference between God and men. We are way to small to even begin to understand God. All we can do is what we have been created to do. Worship God until the day we die and hope He allows us to enter Heaven.

I must have missed your proof, but the Bible is very clear on the age of everything being about 6,000 years. And people claiming something is over 6,000 years old and just making things up. Most of these people haven't even lived over 100 years so there is no way they can really know things about thousands of years ago.

Really? Then please provide the scientific explanation for gravity. And don't forget your explanation has to cover aspects like extra fast stars, the Pioneer anomaly, the flyby anomaly, accelerating expansion, the anomalous increase of the astronomical unit, extra energetic photons, dark flow and extra massive hydrogen clouds. Scientists all over the world will be thrilled that you have solved a puzzle they have been unable to solve for centuries.

Because she is in Heaven now. She is happier now than either of us can even imagine.

Yours in Jesus Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

Well, first of all she is skydiving and would be carrying a parachute, because she is an atheist, and has enough intelligence to bring one. Yet, you Christians would leap with "faith" that GOD will save you, but in fact be the one dying. For example, that young girl that just died from a staph infection. She would have not died if she received proper medical treatment, but instead was "healed" through prayer. She is now dead because of the ignorance of your beliefs. You had the faith that GOD would save her, but He didn't. On a serious note, everything you just stated has nothing to do with the point I was making, so I decided to respond as you did. We are talking about GOD, not myself knowing the outcome of someone's death, and trying to save them. There is no point to free will, if he already knows the outcome of what we are going to choose. The choice has already been made by him and as for the saving, we all day in the end. I'm sorry that you're that scared of death, but it happens.

So you have proof of the non-existence of God? Quit yammering and post it, already.

The whole point of this was for your community to prove to me the existence of GOD, not for me to disprove the existence of him. There is enough proof to prove that GOD does not exist to anyone with a brain and an open mind, but none of you do. I just think it's funny that you feel so righteous giving me shit that I have not posted my proof, nor has anyone else here. Let me see your proof, please.

Take the case of a skydiver. She can choose whether or not to jump out of the plane. You are an observer that sees that she is going to fall into an obstruction to her death and no physical laws can prevent that. Does the fact that you know what is going to happen to her affect her free will?

Now let us assume you can, and have decided to forewarn her of the danger, and have even written a message informing her of the danger. Can she not exercise her free will by not accepting your word? By not believing you?

If she believes your written word, she will be saved. If not, death is the result. How does your knowing the outcome affect her free will? How does her belief or disbelief affect her free will? How does her belief in your written word affect her free will?

Well, first of all she is skydiving and would be carrying a parachute, because she is an atheist, and has enough intelligence to bring one. Yet, you Christians would leap with "faith" that GOD will save you, but in fact be the one dying. For example, that young girl that just died from a staph infection. She would have not died if she received proper medical treatment, but instead was "healed" through prayer. She is now dead because of the ignorance of your beliefs. You had the faith that GOD would save her, but He didn't. On a serious note, everything you just stated has nothing to do with the point I was making, so I decided to respond as you did. We are talking about GOD, not myself knowing the outcome of someone's death, and trying to save them. There is no point to free will, if he already knows the outcome of what we are going to choose. The choice has already been made by him and as for the saving, we all day in the end. I'm sorry that you're that scared of death, but it happens.

Cool. Science.

Yep.

[Wide-Open]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

To me, that is just a picture of shit up in space

Cool. Science.

[Bible Student]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

Then, what would be the point of free will, or even existing? If he already knows the outcome of our lives and if we believe or not, then why make us live a lifetime on Earth, then go to Hell/Heave based upon our decision?

Take the case of a skydiver. She can choose whether or not to jump out of the plane. You are an observer that sees that she is going to fall into an obstruction to her death and no physical laws can prevent that. Does the fact that you know what is going to happen to her affect her free will?

Now let us assume you can, and have decided to forewarn her of the danger, and have even written a message informing her of the danger. Can she not exercise her free will by not accepting your word? By not believing you?

If she believes your written word, she will be saved. If not, death is the result. How does your knowing the outcome affect her free will? How does her belief or disbelief affect her free will? How does her belief in your written word affect her free will?

[Didymus Much]

Re: I'm here for one reason:

... When I do post it I expect an apology from you.

So you have proof of the non-existence of God? Quit yammering and post it, already.