Greetings

[Holyfield]

Before I introduce myself I have to testify. This forum is refreshing for my spirit. I am thinking more about God and his word and is reading the Bible more than I have done for many years since I found it. God works in mysterious ways sometimes.

I live in the country of Sweden in the part of Europe known to some of you as Sindinavia. It is actually the part of the world where most people are naturally blonde (ie before the muslims invaded). In fact in my elementary school class all children were blonde and had blue eyes. That is true also for myself, my wife and son.

My great grandfather Israel and his first-born Reuben, my grandfather, were hard core baptists. My father however, got religiously "damaged" from being (in his own words) "forced to church every sunday" to "count the nails in the roof for three hours". He is a dedicated atheist and anti-christian.

Partly because of that I didn't find the Lord until I was 17. That was 20 years ago. I was lead in salvation prayer by an american drummer who was touring in Europe with a christian rock band. Shortly after that I went to Israel on holiday and was baptized in the Jordan River. Praise Jesus!

My wife is Lutheran. My son goes to former state Lutheran church sunday school. I, however left the lutheran church this fall because the church tries to be a place for everybody, and so it is no longer a place for christians. It is also very liberal, pro-homosexual and pro-muslim. I wish there was a Baptist church in my home town like Landover Baptist Church.

Two verses I would like to share are Colossians 2:8 and Job 28:28.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Greetings

Welcome to our friendly forum!

Why only one son?

[Rev. Q]

Re: Greetings

I also hail from a Lutheran background, but you Euro-Lutherans are a completely different lot, for sure. I was LCMS, one of the more traditional branches (no homos, no women preachers, subservient women, and Biblical literalism), but even their views differed greatly from mine. I ultimately left that faith because people were getting too progressive, something I never thought I'd see (and definitely something my long-deceased great-grandfather, also an LCMS minister, would've despised).

Welcome and Praise Jesus!

Rev. Q

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

Why only one son?

Right on the spot. Both my wife and myself have quite demanding careers and have so far only been able to find enough energy and time to dedicate ourselves to the raising of one child. However, things change, and I am working for more. My wife has not yet made up her mind about a bigger family but she collects all the seasons of 7th Heaven and is watching the episodes all the time so I think she will soon be ready for it.

Pursuing an academic career and marrying late in life does not really encourage producing lots of children. On the contrary one of my teenage friends from church married right after highschool and he now has seven children (with the same wife) and there is no reason why he whould stop there. Sometimes I am jealous of him but I tell myself that the Lord wanted my life to look different for a reason.

Declining birthrates in whole of the (white) western world is a big problem, not only where I live. For those of you in the US who haven't realized yet what is coming, there is plenty of information if you look for it. Here is for example what Pat Buchanan (always worthwhile to read) has to say about the subject http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-america...er-country-588.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Greetings

Right on the spot. Both my wife and myself have quite demanding careers and have so far only been able to find enough energy and time to dedicate ourselves to the raising of one child. However, things change, and I am working for more. My wife has not yet made up her mind about a bigger family

Who cares what your wife thinks? Women can't think, everyone knows that! And why would a woman need a career? You need to take control here and make very clear to her why God created her!

• 1st Timothy 2:11-12 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
• Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
• 1st Corinthians 7:4"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

Who cares what your wife thinks? Women can't think, everyone knows that! And why would a woman need a career? You need to take control here and make very clear to her why God created her!

That is the view of the muslim, who looks upon the woman as his property and is allowed by the Quran to beat and rape her.

The Bible is clear that both sexes are created in the image of God and so have equal value: Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

The scriptures you are referring to clearly make a distinction in the roles of the man and woman. But it doesn't mean I mustn't seek my wife's consent. She is not my slave.

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

My wife also is my equal in the eyes of the laws of society, which I, as a good christian, must obey.

1 Peter 2:13-15 "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men."

[Serenity-Millennium]

Re: Greetings

That is the view of the muslim, who looks upon the woman as his property and is allowed by the Quran to beat and rape her.

It's sad to see such hate and ignorance coming from a "Christian". You obviously know nothing about the Islamic religion, and just listen to what the American media spoon-feeds to you. I'm a Christian myself, but I have many Muslim friends, and your accusations are as incorrect as they are blatantly racist.

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/islam-is-not-sexist/

As per the Quran Verse 5:83 and Vesre 24:2, if a woman is guilty of any criminal offense, her penalty is equivalent to that of male.

[>> Equal rights to women <<]

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness --- on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity..." (Quran, 4:19)
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"And their Lord has heard them and says: 'I don't let the work of any worker be lost be they male or female. You both proceed one from the other (and therefore are equal in the sight of the Lord)..." (Quran 3:195)
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"....then either retain them (i,e your wives) in kindness if you reconcile, or part with them (i.e divorce them) in kindness. " ( Quran 2:231)
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"For divorced women maintenance (must be provided) On a reasonable (scale). This is a duty on the righteous." (Quran 2:241)
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"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed..." (Quran 4:128)
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"And the believers men and women are friends one of the other..." ( Quran 9:71)
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Sexism and Islam


Women, like men, have to pray, have to do Hajj( which is the Muslim pilgramage to Mecca), they have to give Zakat( which is charity to the needy); all men and women have to perform these duties; there is no difference between them, and they all will be held accountable by God. "Whoever does deeds of righteousness, be they male or female, and have faith, they will enter paradise and not the least injustice will be done to them" [Nisaa 4:124]

" For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast and deny themselves, for men and women who guard their chastity, for men and women who engage in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and a great reward." [33:35]

I'll pray for you, friend

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Greetings

That is the view of the muslim

***SCREEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!***

Whoa there Dale Evans, did you just accuse a True Christian™ of having mooslim views?



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

You obviously know nothing about the Islamic religion, and just listen to what the American media spoon-feeds to you. I'm a Christian myself, but I have many Muslim friends...

I could write here what the Quran and the Hadith say about women, but this webpage does it better http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Qu...worth-less.htm

The christian wife is not considered inferior to her man, as opposed to the muslim wife, who is considered inferior and is managed and controlled.

I wouldn't ever rate a muslim as my friend. Surah 5:51 says "O you who belive! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

What the word of God says about befriending muslims can be read in 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 and Ephesians 5:5-7.

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

Whoa there Dale Evans, did you just accuse a True Christian™ of having mooslim views?

You are right and I am corrected. Just quoting God's word would have been the proper reply. All other comments are products of my own sinful intellect and I sincerely repent.

[Serenity-Millennium]

Re: Greetings

That is the view of the muslim, who looks upon the woman as his property and is allowed by the Quran to beat and rape her.

Ah, I see. I thought you were a Christian. I see now you are just a racist hatemonger. I won't disturb you from playing the banjo outside your trailer for much longer, but I will remind you of what you said.

"That is the view of the muslim, who looks upon the woman as his property and is allowed by the Quran to beat and rape her."

Tell me where in the Quran it says it is okay to beat and rape women, or else beg God forgiveness for your lies.

The link you provided shows some verses in the Quran that say women are worth less than men. Of course inappropriate, but does not advocate rape or beating. In fact, the Bible says many similar things.

Genesis 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, an do ye to them as is good in your eyes (Righteous Lot offers to "give away" his virgin daughters to a crowd of rowdy men)

Exodus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged. (If a man has sex with a female slave, SHE alone is to be whipped)

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.-- Numbers 31:15-19

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself.-- Deuteronomy 20:13-14

And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her .... Thou shalt go in unto her.-- Deuteronomy 21:11-13

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, ... nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." In the Bible, women are the property of men; they are his possessions -- like an ox or an ass. Exodus 20:17

If you "entice" an "unmarried maid" to "lie" with you, then you must marry her, unless the father refuses to give her to you, in which case you must pay him the going price for virgins. Exodus 22:16

When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do. Levitcus 4:22-28

"She shall be unclean." Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. (And baby girls make them twice as sinful and dirty as baby boys do.) Leviticus 12:1-5

LEVITICUS 27:3-7 God defines the value of human life in dollars and cents. Of course, to God, females are worth considerably less than males (50 - 60%) -- but neither are worth much. Males (20 - 60 years old) are worth 50 shekels.
Females are worth 30.
Males (5 - 20 years old) are worth 20 shekels.
Females are worth 10.
Males (< 5 years old) are worth 5 shekels.
Females are worth 3.
And babies (or fetuses) less than one month old are worth nothing at all.


When "Moses numbered them according to the word of the Lord" he was told to count "every male from a month old and upward." Women and girls didn't count as persons. Numbers 3:15-16


Miriam and Aaron (Moses' brother and sister) criticize Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and thus breaking the law of God. But God makes it clear that his rules don't apply to his favorites, and he strikes Miriam with leprosy. Notice that only Miriam is punished, though both she and Aaron complained. Numbers 12:1, 9-10


If a man dies and has no son, then his inheritance goes to his daughter. But if he has a son, then the daughter gets nothing. Also no mention is made of wives, sisters, or aunts. Numbers 27:8


If men make vows, then God expects them to keep them. But a woman cannot make a vow, unless it is "allowed" by her husband or father. If it is "allowed," then she must keep it -- but even so, she is not responsible (her husband or father is). Numbers 30:3-16


Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! (Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins.) Numbers 31:1-54


If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go." Deuteronomy 21:11-14


If a man dies before his wife has a child, then the widow must marry her husband's brother -- whether she likes him or not, and whether she wants to or not. Deuteronomy 25:5


As for the Hadiths - Muslims believe those are writings of men, not inspired by God. Different groups hold different Hadiths, none are shared by all Muslims, and some Muslims follow no hadiths. Hadiths are equivalent to Christian Church's teachings. I could no doubt produce many, many examples of writings of Christian church leaders against women throughout the centuries. Heck, I can start just by quoting people on this very website. But you will say those don't count, no matter how many Christians do or have agreed with them, since they aren't in the Bible.

[Born Again Bob]

Re: Greetings

Dear Friend,

In fact, the Bible says many similar things.

Thank you for championing the Bible Truth of female inferiority (and providing us with this handy reference for same). There's hope for you yet!

Yours in Him,
BAB

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

Tell me where in the Quran it says it is okay to beat and rape women, or else beg God forgiveness for your lies.

The purpose of this forum is not for spreading the words of the confused pedophile Mohammed, but I will quote the Quran twice more.

Sura 4:34 "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

In the hadiths can be read on multiple occations not only how Mohammed beat his own wives but gave permissions to his followers to do likewise.

According to Sharia Law a man is allowed to strike his wife for the following four reasons:
1. She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him.
2. She refuses to meet his sexual demands.
3. She leaves the hose without his permission
4. She neglects her religious duties.

Sura 2:223 "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Only recently the president of the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain, Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed said that rape is "impossible" in marriage because "when they got married, the understanding was that sexual intercourse was part of the marriage" and "so long as the woman is his wife, it cannot be termed as rape".

[Holyfield]

Re: Greetings

My heart rejoices today that justice was delivered to Bin Laden by U.S special forces in Pakistan. Now the world will know some respite before the demons that possessed the Al-Qaeda leader will surely seek out another body.

God Bless the USA!

[wait_what]

Re: Greetings

The purpose of this forum is not for spreading the words of the confused pedophile Mohammed, but I will quote the Quran twice more.

Sura 4:34 "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

In the hadiths can be read on multiple occations not only how Mohammed beat his own wives but gave permissions to his followers to do likewise.

According to Sharia Law a man is allowed to strike his wife for the following four reasons:
1. She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him.
2. She refuses to meet his sexual demands.
3. She leaves the hose without his permission
4. She neglects her religious duties.

Sura 2:223 "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Only recently the president of the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain, Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed said that rape is "impossible" in marriage because "when they got married, the understanding was that sexual intercourse was part of the marriage" and "so long as the woman is his wife, it cannot be termed as rape".

For a Christian who in his introduction claimed to have a strong Christian background, you sure know a lot about the Muzzle Limbs.


Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.


1 Peter 3:1-2

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

You quote Genesis to say He created them equal, but from the same book I say he did not.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The verse you quoted, you interpreted wrong. We take scripture quite literally. Let me show you.

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

You see, twice he says in the image of God man was created. After a semicolon, he then says male and female created he them, but two statements only claiming the man to be made in His image. If you think He made man AND woman in His image, I wonder what you think God looks like. Surely God does not have breasts or a cooter! If you think He does, you came to the wrong place friend.