[Octavia]

Re: Hey There

So you are not going to tell us what your reasoning is because you don't want us to change our opinions? I don't mean to point out the obvious, but it seems suspiciously like you just don't have good reasons to back up your beliefs about the Bible and its subject matter.

I've given several verses that show where my beliefs come from.

This has turned to senseless arguing rather than intellectual discussion (which I came here for).

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Hey There

Anyway, you all came to this thread to find out what my beliefs are, and now you know. I'm not here to change your opinions, only to see what all of you are about.

So you are not going to tell us what your reasoning is because you don't want us to change our opinions? I don't mean to point out the obvious, but it seems suspiciously like you just don't have good reasons to back up your beliefs about the Bible and its subject matter.

Why don't you just tell us why it is wrong to take God at His word? It should be easy for you, assuming your view is based on reason.

[Octavia]

Re: Hey There

Forgive me for asking a question. People often ask me a question several times, I do not get all snotty about it.
Do get like that with Jesus too? If you pray once and He does not give you want you think you need, do you get an attitude with Him also?

You've really hurt my feelings. I recall you saying something about loving your fellow man and this is what you do? Wow...

I was away for a while, and then came back here to find several replies to my latest post. I decided that I would answer all of them in a larger single post instead of having to reply to every single person. You were all telling me the same thing anyway, so I thought that was good enough.

Again, I apologize.

Anyway, you all came to this thread to find out what my beliefs are, and now you know. I'm not here to change your opinions, only to see what all of you are about.

It is unfortunate that you all can't be as respectful as this man here. I thank you James Hutchins for being respectful.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Hey There

I would rather clarify the question you are asking rather than answering it wrong.

I would not have guessed, based on the quality of your answers.

From what I've seen, if a group of people read the same thing, but then have a different opinion about what the reading is saying, then that could possibly mean it's a metaphor.

From what I've seen, that has nothing to do with whether or not something is a metaphor. In fact, an aptly used metaphor is obviously such in context. You are merely speculating that the verses which make you uncomfortable might be metaphors, and you don't even know for sure what they are metaphors about. Are you saying that God employs metaphors poorly? His word is perfect, and therefore if He used metaphors it would be obvious what they meant, or He would explain them like Jesus' parables. If the Bible contained obscure metaphors that were not explained, then it would be imperfect. Vastly so.

Jesus used them all the time, so it's not as if the Bible doesn't contain any.

The fact that Jesus spoke in parables has nothing to do with whether or not the law is a metaphor, or the plain statements made about the flood and the virgin birth are metaphors.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hey There

0..........I apologize for making you feel ignored, but I had felt that those questions had already been answered previously.

Anyway, we're just going in circles here. You all have your own beliefs, and I have mine. It's just something we are going to have to accept. And by doing discussions like this we help ourselves solidify our beliefs. That is my main goal in most of this.

Forgive me for asking a question. People often ask me a question several times, I do not get all snotty about it.
Do get like that with Jesus too? If you pray once and He does not give you want you think you need, do you get an attitude with Him also?

You've really hurt my feelings. I recall you saying something about loving your fellow man and this is what you do? Wow...

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Hey There

'From what I've seen, if a group of people read the same thing, but then have a different opinion about what the reading is saying, then that could possibly mean it's a metaphor.'

Octavia, atheists read the Bible and have a different opinion than we do. Does that mean that the whole Bible might be a metaphor?

Jack

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hey There

I would rather clarify the question you are asking rather than answering it wrong.



From what I've seen, if a group of people read the same thing, but then have a different opinion about what the reading is saying, then that could possibly mean it's a metaphor.

Jesus used them all the time, so it's not as if the Bible doesn't contain any.

So answer the question then. In the matter of those specific examples: in your esteemed opinion are they or are they not metaphors and if so what reasoning did you use?

You see I've heard many people blether on about how Mary wasn't a virgin really because of this and that but it quite specifically says so in the Bible and you say it's true and not up for interpretation so I'm even more confused now by your answer than I was then.

I just don't get how you manage to see so clearly what is and is not to be taken literally and you're hedging because I think we both know that really it's down to what your conscience tells you but you wrap it all up in mealy nonsense because you know exactly where I'm going with this. Namely that you are a false lukewarm Christian.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

[Octavia]

Re: Hey There

you're being purposely dense, no?

This is a marvellous debating technique, to be sure.

I would rather clarify the question you are asking rather than answering it wrong.

I'm asking you how you discern what is metaphor and what is not

From what I've seen, if a group of people read the same thing, but then have a different opinion about what the reading is saying, then that could possibly mean it's a metaphor.

Jesus used them all the time, so it's not as if the Bible doesn't contain any.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hey There

What are you asking exactly? Whether or not I think those verses are metaphors?

you're being purposely dense, no?

This is a marvellous debating technique, to be sure.

I'm asking you how you discern what is metaphor and what is not. I picked examples so you can wow us with your technique and would draw you back to them rather than debating this spurious "define definition" ploy.

Jeremiah 20:16

Genesis 1:1-5

[Octavia]

Re: Hey There

Please let me know what it is about this that tells you that it's not "pretty straight forward and doesn't leave room for interpretations" or do you, like us, believe that, too?

What are you asking exactly? Whether or not I think those verses are metaphors?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hey There

[speaking about virgin birth]

No, because this is pretty straight forward and doesn't leave room for interpretations. Plus Jesus is mentioned in the Bible later on as well and all that.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Please let me know what it is about this that tells you that it's not "pretty straight forward and doesn't leave room for interpretations" or do you, like us, believe that, too?

Jeremiah 20:16 And let that man be as the cities which the LORD overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;

Did God actually do what is mentioned in this similie or is it a similie about a metaphor? God either did or did not overthrow cities without repenting. which is it? How do you know?

[Octavia]

Re: Hey There

Wow. A busy night in real life leaves you with lots of questions here.

There are three versions in the New Testament that cover salvation.

Faith alone: Romans 3:28
Works alone: James 2:18
Faith and works: James 2:17 (requires both)

Well there you go. 3 different verses saying different things. That is why there is so much debate about this stuff.

Quotes about dragons

The discussion here is not about dragons. I was just using them to try to make a point.

Octavia, I will ask you again. Was the virgin birth a metaphor? Do you think that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Christ. I believe she was because the Bible tells me so but I am interested in your thoughts.

No, because this is pretty straight forward and doesn't leave room for interpretations. Plus Jesus is mentioned in the Bible later on as well and all that.

Octavia, I ama bit miffed you ignored my post to your (This One).

Do you treat God's Word® like this too?

I apologize for making you feel ignored, but I had felt that those questions had already been answered previously.

Anyway, we're just going in circles here. You all have your own beliefs, and I have mine. It's just something we are going to have to accept. And by doing discussions like this we help ourselves solidify our beliefs. That is my main goal in most of this.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hey There

Octavia, I ama bit miffed you ignored my post to your (This One).

Do you treat God's Word(r) like this too?

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Hey There

A more pertinent question might be whether Jesus temporarily died for three days before later rising to Heaven.

Or was that a metaphor too?

Yes, I asked her that as well but she didn't answer, maybe she thought the question was metaphorical?

YIC

Jack

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hey There

Octavia, I will ask you again. Was the virgin birth a metaphor? Do you think that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Christ. I believe she was because the Bible tells me so but I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

Jack

A more pertinent question might be whether Jesus temporarily died for three days before later rising to Heaven.

Or was that a metaphor too?

I'm wondering, like you, what the magic formula for metaphor detection is.