[paulinho]

Re: Hello Christians

Having been saved from the papist cult myself, I can say this was my first thought as well. It sent a shiver down my spine and I had to count all my children to make sure none of them had strayed or been led astray to the parish at the corner.

Original sin aside, I truly hope your husband's children were all harmless and untouched. You cannot be too careful with those people.

[21stCenturyGuy]

Re: Hello Christians

All morality eminates from God. That's why atheists are all immoral scum who run around doing as they please rather than pleasing God.

If God orders another human being hurt, then it must be for a good reason. Are you at all familiar with the story of the Midianites? One day God decided that THEY deserved to die. Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites, see? They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins --captive girl children virgins! ---- Numbers 31:1-54

Now you can't sit there and tell me that the Midianites didn't deserve what they got.

There is no good reason to harm another human being, for God loved each and every one as his own, and to harm one is to harm someone loved by God.

I recognise the story yes, but not in detail;

Is it never explained what the Midianites did to deserve having every Man, even the children, and all the de-flowered Women put to death, while taking the rest as slaves, CHILD slaves none-the-less? Now, God is supposed to love all his creations, but humanity most of all, so if he is unwilling, or unable to show his strength, love and glory to the Midianites; He is putting them to death, to the point of Genocide because of something that is out of their control, either through not being exposed to Christianity, or through never being given the chance. Whatever happened to The Commandments telling us to not kill?

And with all due respect, I am a Atheist, calling us Scum is unnessacry, We all try to do the best we can with our lives, if you can't respect our believes, maybe you can respect our good intentions.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hello Christians

There is no good reason to harm another human being, for God loved each and every one as his own, and to harm one is to harm someone loved by God.

Where does the Bible say that "God loves everyone?"

And with all due respect, I am a Atheist, calling us Scum is unnessacry, We all try to do the best we can with our lives, if you can't respect our believes, maybe you can respect our good intentions.

I take your point. Calling you atheist scum is redundant, isn't it.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello Christians

There is no good reason to harm another human being, for God loved each and every one as his own, and to harm one is to harm someone loved by God.

I recognise the story yes, but not in detail;

Is it never explained what the Midianites did to deserve having every Man, even the children, and all the de-flowered Women put to death, while taking the rest as slaves, CHILD slaves none-the-less?

Does it matter? It is enough we know not to be enemies of God:

Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:11-12 )

Now, God is supposed to love all his creations, but humanity most of all, so if he is unwilling, or unable to show his strength, love and glory to the Midianites; He is putting them to death, to the point of Genocide because of something that is out of their control, either through not being exposed to Christianity, or through never being given the chance. Whatever happened to The Commandments telling us to not kill?

When God kills or commands killing, it is Just and Righteous for our God is a Just and Righteous and Mighty God:

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello Christians

There is no good reason to harm another human being, for God loved each and every one as his own, and to harm one is to harm someone loved by God.

Where did you get this ridiculous idea?

No wonder you're an atheist! Whatever 'church' you went to when a child was filled with liars!

Is it never explained what the Midianites did to deserve having every Man, even the children, and all the de-flowered Women put to death, while taking the rest as slaves, CHILD slaves none-the-less?

Yes. They left God to worship a false god.

And it's assumed that the virgin females were kept not so much as slaves but as concubines and/or wives. It's called genocide, you see; you kill all the males and all the females who could be currently pregnant, and get all the girls pregnant yourselves.

Now, God is supposed to love all his creations, but humanity most of all, so if he is unwilling, or unable to show his strength, love and glory to the Midianites; He is putting them to death, to the point of Genocide because of something that is out of their control, either through not being exposed to Christianity, or through never being given the chance.

Who are you to tell God what He is supposed to do?

And now that you know the rest of the story, don't you feel silly about suggesting they were put to death for something beyond their control?

Whatever happened to The Commandments telling us to not kill?

What happened to the Commandment telling us not to worship false gods, and prescribing the death penalty for those who disobey?

Is it illegal to kill people in the United States?

Correct answer: It's illegal to murder people. It's perfectly legal to kill in self-defense, in defending others, or in cases of war or legally-sanctioned execution. Where God commands someone be executed, then there is no guilt in carrying out His Command.

And with all due respect, I am a Atheist, calling us Scum is unnessacry, We all try to do the best we can with our lives, if you can't respect our believes, maybe you can respect our good intentions.

Respect what beliefs? You aren't supposed to have any.

[21stCenturyGuy]

Re: Hello Christians

Where does the Bible say that "God loves everyone?"

It might be my mistake, but I took "for God so loved the World" to mean he loved Humanity, for the world was made for Humans was it not?

I take your point. Calling you atheist scum is redundant, isn't it.

And my friend, with all due respect, can we not talk reasonably, leaving the insults to bickering children, for I have no quarrel with you, or your place in the world.

Does it matter? It is enough we know not to be enemies of God:

Mary, I know what you mean, but wouldn't that mean that God used fear, and threat of violence by man's hand as a incentive to believe in him? I thought he gave us free will to choose, of course, being a Righteous God, I suspect he would say to have a good reason.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hello Christians

Jesus DID NOT die for everyone.

He died for those that BELIEVE.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Everyone doesn't believe in Jesus, thus they will perish.

Your problem is, you can't understand the words in the Holy Bible. You lack Christian Discernment.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello Christians

It might be my mistake, but I took "for God so loved the World" to mean he loved Humanity, for the world was made for Humans was it not?

No. The world, and the universe, were made by God, for God.

Humans are but one of the many species He created to populate His, not OUR, universe.

This is one of the shortfalls of atheism. Since you believe yourselves to be the highest intelligence in the universe, you cannot help but exalt yourselves above all Creation. You then project that onto Christians, assuming we also exalt ourselves above all Creation and believe that the universe was made for us.

WE were made for God's universe, not the other way around.

Mary, I know what you mean, but wouldn't that mean that God used fear, and threat of violence by man's hand as a incentive to believe in him? I thought he gave us free will to choose, of course, being a Righteous God, I suspect he would say to have a good reason.

Ah, you have made it beyond your three licks, I see.

You are now trying to get Mary to question her faith.

Won't work, Sparky.

God has always used fear to inspire faith. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. He drowned all but eight people in the Flood, even unborn babies and bunny rabbits, neither of whom had a chance to defy Him.

You really should read the Bible if you want to understand God, instead of just listening to what a few Pastor Feelgoods have said about an omnibenevolent fluffy bunny god who lets everyone into Heaven.

Omnibenevolence is NOT a Biblical concept.

[21stCenturyGuy]

Re: Hello Christians

Where did you get this ridiculous idea?

No wonder you're an atheist! Whatever 'church' you went to when a child was filled with liars!


Yes. They left God to worship a false god.

And it's assumed that the virgin females were kept not so much as slaves but as concubines and/or wives. It's called genocide, you see; you kill all the males and all the females who could be currently pregnant, and get all the girls pregnant yourselves.


Who are you to tell God what He is supposed to do?

And now that you know the rest of the story, don't you feel silly about suggesting they were put to death for something beyond their control?


What happened to the Commandment telling us not to worship false gods, and prescribing the death penalty for those who disobey?

Is it illegal to kill people in the United States?

Correct answer: It's illegal to murder people. It's perfectly legal to kill in self-defense, in defending others, or in cases of war or legally-sanctioned execution. Where God commands someone be executed, then there is no guilt in carrying out His Command.

Respect what beliefs? You aren't supposed to have any.

The only Church I went to as a child, was where the local Boy Scouts troop met before a trail, so you might have a point there lol

The thing that bothers me in regards to the Genocide, is not that Moses had thousands of people put to death for God, or that even children were not spared, its that the female virgin Children, who you correctly pointed out, would have been forced into being concubines or wives, would have been very young, if we take Child to mean up to 18; which is probably anywhere between 2 and 4 years older then it WOULD be considered back then, that means there could be anything from 12-18 year old children, assuming that they became fertile at 12, I might be wrong. And these were used as concubines, sex-slaves in other words. Anyone else think that sounds alittle too close to Paedophilia to them?

Who are you to tell God what He is supposed to do?

And now that you know the rest of the story, don't you feel silly about suggesting they were put to death for something beyond their control?

Yeah, that came out different then I meant it to lol, I mean that God is a loving entity, so he would love Humanity, if I am right, he loved Humanity even more then his Angels, asking them to bow before Humans, which caused Lucifer to split from the angels in the first place. But that would mean that he loved Humanity the most, loving them EVEN more then his own angels.

And I will concede, that if they were given the chance to worship Christianity and refused, I can understand in them days, a crusade against them being their own fault.

And for the record, last thing I will post tonight because it is getting late, and I don't want to say anything out of tiredness I would later regret. Rev, I do have beliefs, just not in a Deity, or Afterlife.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello Christians

Mary, I know what you mean, but wouldn't that mean that God used fear, and threat of violence by man's hand as a incentive to believe in him? I thought he gave us free will to choose, of course, being a Righteous God, I suspect he would say to have a good reason.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live (Deuteronomy 30:19)

So choose life.

If God uses fear and threat of violence and even emotional manipulation and mental abuse, He has a Perfect reason. Just because we can't see the fullness of His plan now doesn't mean we need to worry about it.


Besides, don't you think an eternity of singing His praises is good reason?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello Christians

The thing that bothers me in regards to the Genocide, is not that Moses had thousands of people put to death for God, or that even children were not spared, its that the female virgin Children, who you correctly pointed out, would have been forced into being concubines or wives, would have been very young, if we take Child to mean up to 18; which is probably anywhere between 2 and 4 years older then it WOULD be considered back then, that means there could be anything from 12-18 year old children, assuming that they became fertile at 12, I might be wrong. And these were used as concubines, sex-slaves in other words. Anyone else think that sounds alittle too close to Paedophilia to them?

Why do you worry about them? They are in Hell now. I'm sure those days of being 12 year old brides are "the good ole days" for them now.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello Christians

The thing that bothers me in regards to the Genocide, is not that Moses had thousands of people put to death for God, or that even children were not spared, its that the female virgin Children, who you correctly pointed out, would have been forced into being concubines or wives, would have been very young, if we take Child to mean up to 18; which is probably anywhere between 2 and 4 years older then it WOULD be considered back then, that means there could be anything from 12-18 year old children, assuming that they became fertile at 12, I might be wrong. And these were used as concubines, sex-slaves in other words. Anyone else think that sounds alittle too close to Paedophilia to them?

Not at all. Pedophiles are attracted to prepubescents.

Meanwhile, in those days, marriage of girls as soon as they were able to bear children was common. Remember, many women died in childbirth, babies weren't counted in census until they were at least a month old because so many died, and people generally died young.

It was necessary to bear as many children as possible.

So no, "under 18" does not mean "child" except here in our little privileged First World where 25-year-olds are still "children".

Here I thought you atheists were all about "cultural relativism". But not when it applies to the ancient Jews, I guess?

Yeah, that came out different then I meant it to lol, I mean that God is a loving entity, so he would love Humanity, if I am right, he loved Humanity even more then his Angels, asking them to bow before Humans, which caused Lucifer to split from the angels in the first place.

Dante is not Scripture. That's a made-up story.

And I will concede, that if they were given the chance to worship Christianity and refused, I can understand in them days, a crusade against them being their own fault.

You really need to read the Bible if you think Jesus came before Moses.

[21stCenturyGuy]

Re: Hello Christians

You are now trying to get Mary to question her faith.

Won't work, Sparky.

Woah, My apologies, I didn't mean for it to sound like that was my intentions. I would never hope to try and persuade a Christian out of their beliefs, I respect your right to HAVE those beliefs too much to interfere. As I hope many here feel the same way to others.

I meant that I was confused by how he was involving himself in Moses's crusade, while having promised free will. But I guess your right, I should read up a bit more on the subject; If I am honest, I don't even own a bible, let alone read it cover to cover.

No. The world, and the universe, were made by God, for God.

Humans are but one of the many species He created to populate His, not OUR, universe.

This is one of the shortfalls of atheism. Since you believe yourselves to be the highest intelligence in the universe, you cannot help but exalt yourselves above all Creation. You then project that onto Christians, assuming we also exalt ourselves above all Creation and believe that the universe was made for us.

WE were made for God's universe, not the other way around.

So we are not alone then, like the Angels, he would have created other species to keep him company?

I would'nt say that, as an Atheist, I hold myself higher then all of Creation, I know we have limits, if a Meteor hits Earth, nothing I can do about it, if I wanted to reach out and touch the moon, I couldnt. But I know what you mean, with our limited experience we can't see the big picture. Which is quite a thought-provoking, if unsettling prospect...

Anyway, I will have to talk later, need to get to sleep before I make some slip-up on here that I will regret later, it has definatly been interesting talking to the four of you, I hope that the rest of the forum accepts me with; well even your level of sceptism would be nice. It has been nice to meet you, Rev, Mary, Pastor.

I will see you another day.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello Christians

Woah, My apologies, I didn't mean for it to sound like that was my intentions. I would never hope to try and persuade a Christian out of their beliefs, I respect your right to HAVE those beliefs too much to interfere. As I hope many here feel the same way to others.

I meant that I was confused by how he was involving himself in Moses's crusade, while having promised free will. But I guess your right, I should read up a bit more on the subject; If I am honest, I don't even own a bible, let alone read it cover to cover.



So we are not alone then, like the Angels, he would have created other species to keep him company?

I would'nt say that, as an Atheist, I hold myself higher then all of Creation, I know we have limits, if a Meteor hits Earth, nothing I can do about it, if I wanted to reach out and touch the moon, I couldnt. But I know what you mean, with our limited experience we can't see the big picture. Which is quite a thought-provoking, if unsettling prospect...

Anyway, I will have to talk later, need to get to sleep before I make some slip-up on here that I will regret later, it has definatly been interesting talking to the four of you, I hope that the rest of the forum accepts me with; well even your level of sceptism would be nice. It has been nice to meet you, Rev, Mary, Pastor.

I will see you another day.

Sleep well. I pray Jesus comes to you in your dreams and pours His Holy Love into you!