[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Greetings to all!

Where did I even day I believed in the big bang theory, cuz I never did. Leaning to read must be a challenge too great for some

This is very interesting. I respect people who reject empirical evidence based on their religious beliefs. However, such people have some sort of evidence to the contrary: the sacred texts of their religion, the words of a prophet they are following, or an oral tradition.

What is your reason to reject scientific evidence?

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Greetings to all!

I never once said I would hit him at all in that part but rest assured kicking my butt is not something you would be capable of. Where did I even day I believed in the big bang theory, cuz I never did. Leaning to read must be a challenge too great for some

Can somebody translate this stream of consciousness into something that can be understood by those of us who aren't tripping on magic mushrooms?


It sounds like this person wants to fight me, but then he wanders off into some cosmic drug brother talk about the Big Bang theory?

I'm gonna add this little punk to my prayer list.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Greetings to all!

so far I haven't noticed much either actual pointings out—numerous suggestions that this might be happening soon—or evidence of any flaws supported by reliable sources

or any sources at all..

Interesting to read your take on this, Sister. I hadn't noticed any suggestion that he (or she - or possibly "ze"? ) was planning to actually point anything out, or make any sort of argument, or even take a tentative position on any matter any time soon. Apparently it is enough to say that he has already done so.

Psalm 94:4
How long shall they utter and speak hard things?
And all the workers of iniquity boast themselves?

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings to all!

Why?

I do. They are to hand BEFORE posting so that when fuller information is requested I can provide it.


Homosexual (or any other) perversion is nothing at all like hair colour or height.
You want actual research?

SOURCES:

journals:
• Archives of Sexual Behavior
• Archives of General Psychiatry
• Journal of Personality & Social Psychology
• Science
universities:
• Columbia University
• University of Utah
professional bodies:
• American Psychiatric Association

What part of..

.• people can change their “sexual orientation” from homosexual to heterosexual.
.• There is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory.
.• there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”
.• Other recent developments also suggest that homosexuality is not genetically determined.
.• effectively refutes the idea that homosexuality has a genetic basis.
.• “This finding alone argues for the enormous importance of nongenetic factors influencing homosexuality,”
.• other researchers tried to replicate his [Hamer's] study but failed.
.• “We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality.”
.• when another group of researchers…tried to replicate Hamer’s study, they too failed to find a genetic connection to homosexuality.
.• the chain of reasoning (from biology to social policy [regarding homosexuality]), does not hold up under scrutiny.”

..can you not understand? Do you know what research is? Do you know what a peer reviewed academic journal is?

There is no link between homosexual behaviours and genetics, according to the researchers who work in that area - including the original proponent of the idea. How can you possibly suggest otherwise?

OK, there you have some sources to look up. Google has nothing to do with it those are actual sources with real research. What do the sources say?

Here's some concerning the Xq28 gene:

On this occasion I am going to deviate from my policy of only posting balanced and accurate information.
It will still be accurate BUT I AM GOING TO POST MATERIAL FROM HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISTS so that you can see how ridiculous your assertion "Being gay in the brain from birth" really is.

1

FROM: Robert L. Spitzer, “Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation?”, Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 32, No. 5, October 2003: 403-417.

Columbia University Professor of Psychiatry Dr. Robert Spitzer, who was instrumental in removing homosexuality in 1973 from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of mental disorders, wrote a study published in the October 2003 Archives of Sexual Behavior. He contended that people can change their “sexual orientation” from homosexual to heterosexual. Spitzer interviewed more than 200 people, most of whom claimed that through reparative therapy counseling, their desires for same-sex partners either diminished significantly or they changed over to heterosexual orientation. Although still a proponent of homosexual activism, Spitzer has been attacked unmercifully by former admirers for this breach of the ideology that people are “born gay and can’t change.” Immutability is a central tenet of demands for “gay rights” and “gay marriage.”

2

FROM: William Byne and Bruce Parsons, “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised,” Archives of General Psychiatry, Vol. 50, March 1993: 228-239.

There is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory. ... The appeal of current biologic explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data.

NOTE: Byne & Parsons [Columbia University] found numerous methodological flaws in all of the studies undertaken ino "gay genes".

3

FROM: American Psychiatric Association: fact sheet, “Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues,” May 2000

“Currently, there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”

4
LESBIANS

FROM: Charles Socarides, A Freedom Too Far: A Psychoanalyst Answers 1,000 Questions About Causes and Cure and the Impact of the Gay Rights Movement on American Society Adam Margrave Books, 1996 pp151-152 & pp115-155
Laura Sessions Stepp, “Partway Gay? For Some Teen Girls, Sexual Preference Is a Shifting Concept,” The Washington Post, January 4, 2004, p. D-1.
Lisa M. Diamond, “Was it a phase? Young women’s relinquishment of lesbian/bisexual identities over a 5-year period,” Journal of Personality & Social Psychology (2004).

Other recent developments also suggest that homosexuality is not genetically determined. The Washington Post reported that bisexuality is fashionable among many young teen girls, who go back and forth from being “straight” to “gay” to “bi” to “straight” again. Post reporter Laura Sessions Stepp writes: Recent studies among women suggest that female homosexuality may be grounded more in social interaction, may present itself as an emotional attraction in addition to or in place of a physical one, and may change over time. She cites one such study by Lisa M. Diamond, assistant professor of psychology and gender studies at the University of Utah, who in 1994 began studying a group of females aged 16 to 23 who were attracted to other females. Over the course of the study, “almost two-thirds have changed labels,” Stepp reports.

5
TWINS

FROM: J. Michael Bailey, Richard C. Pillard, “A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry 48 (1991) 1089ff
Satinover, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, p. 85.

In 1991, J. Michael Bailey and Richard C. Pillard published a study that examined identical and fraternal twin brothers and adopted brothers in an effort to establish a genetic link to homosexuality. Fifty-two percent of the identical twins were reportedly homosexual, while only 22 percent of fraternal twins fell into the same category. But since identical twins have identical genetic material, the fact that nearly half of the identical twins were heterosexual effectively refutes the idea that homosexuality has a genetic basis.

“This finding alone argues for the enormous importance of nongenetic factors influencing homosexuality,” writes Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, “because ... in order for something to be genetically determined, as opposed to merely influenced, the genetic heritability would need to approach 100 percent.” Satinover, a psychiatrist, notes that “identical twins reared together share more significant environmental influences than nonidentical twins reared together,” and that narcissism, a key component of homosexuality, is more likely among identical twins who “grow up with mirror images of themselves.”

6

FROM: Dean H. Hamer, George Rice, Neil Risch, and George Ebers,et al. “Genetics and Male Sexual Orientation” Technical Comment, Science 285 6 August 1999: 803a.

Another fact that casts doubt on Hamer’s conclusions is that other researchers tried to replicate his study but failed. In 1999, Drs. George Rice, Neil Risch and George Ebers published their findings in Science after attempting to replicate Hamer’s Xq28 study. Their conclusion: “We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality.”
Moreover, they added that when another group of researchers (Sanders, et al.) tried to replicate Hamer’s study, they too failed to find a genetic connection to homosexuality.

The information from Dr. Robert Spitzer [Professor of Psychiatry (Columbia University)] is particularly interesting.. You may recall that he was associated with the removal of homosexuality from the register of mental disorders.
• He has not changed his position regarding the register of mental disorders.

Similarly Dr. William Byne readily advocates societal acceptance of homosexuality and “gay rights,” but nevertheless concludes, “Most of the links in the chain of reasoning from biology to social policy [regarding homosexuality], do not hold up under scrutiny.”

The ongoing evaluation of all these research programmes continues to yield only one result. There is no link between homosexual behaviours and genetics, according to the researchers who work in that area. The more studies done the stronger the evidence.

The researchers I've quoted all agree that homosexuals should not be discriminated against and some are political activists. I chose them for that reason. Whether they deliberately skewed their results or knowingly omitted data which would give a more accurate result is a question as yet unresolved, but they all now accept the data of numerous studies including not only Xq28 but a bizarre range of other "biological indicators" - none of which have any basis in reality. These (and others) are available as a pdf if you can be bothered reading it.

144KB

But from your remarks so far I'd say that you've never read anything on this subject. The pdf might one place to start. THIS would be a better one.

The opinions of Christians however do not derive from research projects undertaken by homosexual &/or gay activist professors of psychiatry. As Pastor Ezekiel has pointed out, God tells us what to think & that is what we think. I Corinthians 1:23

Praise Him!

Sister Mitza, thank you for your very informative post. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's too long and our dear Equality won't be able to comprehend it. What a shame.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Greetings to all!

I meant the flaws in your attitudes and so called christain behavior

You're going to have to be more specific...for instance: if you say we are hateful, please provide a link to our purported hatred along with the appropriate Scripture that prohibits it.

Don't be surprised if we are more familiar with the Bible than you.

[ObeseDegenerate]

Re: Greetings to all!

I meant the flaws in your attitudes and so called christain behavior

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Greetings to all!

I'm just pointing out obvious flaws I see on this site

so far I haven't noticed much either actual pointings out—numerous suggestions that this might be happening soon—or evidence of any flaws supported by reliable sources

ior any sources at all..

[ObeseDegenerate]

Re: Greetings to all!

Uh oh...

[ATTACH]23718[/ATTACH]

You're one to talk hypocrite. I'm fairly certain you're the child who continuously changes things on my profile pricing how unchristainlike you really are. It's not my fault you were born to be unattractive, no need to attack me out of jealousy. I'm just pointing out obvious flaws I see on this site.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Greetings to all!

I never once said I would hit him at all in that part but rest assured kicking my butt is not something you would be capable of. Where did I even day I believed in the big bang theory, cuz I never did. Leaning to read must be a challenge too great for some

Uh oh...

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Greetings to all!

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.

Why?

If I had some of the studies I've read on hand I'd gladly show them

I do. They are to hand BEFORE posting so that when fuller information is requested I can provide it.


Homosexual (or any other) perversion is nothing at all like hair colour or height.
You want actual research?

SOURCES:

journals:
• Archives of Sexual Behavior
• Archives of General Psychiatry
• Journal of Personality & Social Psychology
• Science
universities:
• Columbia University
• University of Utah
professional bodies:
• American Psychiatric Association

What part of..

.• people can change their “sexual orientation” from homosexual to heterosexual.
.• There is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory.
.• there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”
.• Other recent developments also suggest that homosexuality is not genetically determined.
.• effectively refutes the idea that homosexuality has a genetic basis.
.• “This finding alone argues for the enormous importance of nongenetic factors influencing homosexuality,”
.• other researchers tried to replicate his [Hamer's] study but failed.
.• “We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality.”
.• when another group of researchers…tried to replicate Hamer’s study, they too failed to find a genetic connection to homosexuality.
.• the chain of reasoning (from biology to social policy [regarding homosexuality]), does not hold up under scrutiny.”

..can you not understand? Do you know what research is? Do you know what a peer reviewed academic journal is?

There is no link between homosexual behaviours and genetics, according to the researchers who work in that area - including the original proponent of the idea. How can you possibly suggest otherwise?

OK, there you have some sources to look up. Google has nothing to do with it those are actual sources with real research. What do the sources say?

Here's some concerning the Xq28 gene:

On this occasion I am going to deviate from my policy of only posting balanced and accurate information.
It will still be accurate BUT I AM GOING TO POST MATERIAL FROM HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISTS so that you can see how ridiculous your assertion "Being gay in the brain from birth" really is.

1

FROM: Robert L. Spitzer, “Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation?”, Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 32, No. 5, October 2003: 403-417.

Columbia University Professor of Psychiatry Dr. Robert Spitzer, who was instrumental in removing homosexuality in 1973 from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of mental disorders, wrote a study published in the October 2003 Archives of Sexual Behavior. He contended that people can change their “sexual orientation” from homosexual to heterosexual. Spitzer interviewed more than 200 people, most of whom claimed that through reparative therapy counseling, their desires for same-sex partners either diminished significantly or they changed over to heterosexual orientation. Although still a proponent of homosexual activism, Spitzer has been attacked unmercifully by former admirers for this breach of the ideology that people are “born gay and can’t change.” Immutability is a central tenet of demands for “gay rights” and “gay marriage.”

2

FROM: William Byne and Bruce Parsons, “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised,” Archives of General Psychiatry, Vol. 50, March 1993: 228-239.

There is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory. ... The appeal of current biologic explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data.

NOTE: Byne & Parsons [Columbia University] found numerous methodological flaws in all of the studies undertaken ino "gay genes".

3

FROM: American Psychiatric Association: fact sheet, “Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues,” May 2000

“Currently, there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”

4
LESBIANS

FROM: Charles Socarides, A Freedom Too Far: A Psychoanalyst Answers 1,000 Questions About Causes and Cure and the Impact of the Gay Rights Movement on American Society Adam Margrave Books, 1996 pp151-152 & pp115-155
Laura Sessions Stepp, “Partway Gay? For Some Teen Girls, Sexual Preference Is a Shifting Concept,” The Washington Post, January 4, 2004, p. D-1.
Lisa M. Diamond, “Was it a phase? Young women’s relinquishment of lesbian/bisexual identities over a 5-year period,” Journal of Personality & Social Psychology (2004).

Other recent developments also suggest that homosexuality is not genetically determined. The Washington Post reported that bisexuality is fashionable among many young teen girls, who go back and forth from being “straight” to “gay” to “bi” to “straight” again. Post reporter Laura Sessions Stepp writes: Recent studies among women suggest that female homosexuality may be grounded more in social interaction, may present itself as an emotional attraction in addition to or in place of a physical one, and may change over time. She cites one such study by Lisa M. Diamond, assistant professor of psychology and gender studies at the University of Utah, who in 1994 began studying a group of females aged 16 to 23 who were attracted to other females. Over the course of the study, “almost two-thirds have changed labels,” Stepp reports.

5
TWINS

FROM: J. Michael Bailey, Richard C. Pillard, “A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry 48 (1991) 1089ff
Satinover, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, p. 85.

In 1991, J. Michael Bailey and Richard C. Pillard published a study that examined identical and fraternal twin brothers and adopted brothers in an effort to establish a genetic link to homosexuality. Fifty-two percent of the identical twins were reportedly homosexual, while only 22 percent of fraternal twins fell into the same category. But since identical twins have identical genetic material, the fact that nearly half of the identical twins were heterosexual effectively refutes the idea that homosexuality has a genetic basis.

“This finding alone argues for the enormous importance of nongenetic factors influencing homosexuality,” writes Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, “because ... in order for something to be genetically determined, as opposed to merely influenced, the genetic heritability would need to approach 100 percent.” Satinover, a psychiatrist, notes that “identical twins reared together share more significant environmental influences than nonidentical twins reared together,” and that narcissism, a key component of homosexuality, is more likely among identical twins who “grow up with mirror images of themselves.”

6

FROM: Dean H. Hamer, George Rice, Neil Risch, and George Ebers,et al. “Genetics and Male Sexual Orientation” Technical Comment, Science 285 6 August 1999: 803a.

Another fact that casts doubt on Hamer’s conclusions is that other researchers tried to replicate his study but failed. In 1999, Drs. George Rice, Neil Risch and George Ebers published their findings in Science after attempting to replicate Hamer’s Xq28 study. Their conclusion: “We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality.”
Moreover, they added that when another group of researchers (Sanders, et al.) tried to replicate Hamer’s study, they too failed to find a genetic connection to homosexuality.

The information from Dr. Robert Spitzer [Professor of Psychiatry (Columbia University)] is particularly interesting.. You may recall that he was associated with the removal of homosexuality from the register of mental disorders.
• He has not changed his position regarding the register of mental disorders.

Similarly Dr. William Byne readily advocates societal acceptance of homosexuality and “gay rights,” but nevertheless concludes, “Most of the links in the chain of reasoning from biology to social policy [regarding homosexuality], do not hold up under scrutiny.”

The ongoing evaluation of all these research programmes continues to yield only one result. There is no link between homosexual behaviours and genetics, according to the researchers who work in that area. The more studies done the stronger the evidence.

The researchers I've quoted all agree that homosexuals should not be discriminated against and some are political activists. I chose them for that reason. Whether they deliberately skewed their results or knowingly omitted data which would give a more accurate result is a question as yet unresolved, but they all now accept the data of numerous studies including not only Xq28 but a bizarre range of other "biological indicators" - none of which have any basis in reality. These (and others) are available as a pdf if you can be bothered reading it.

144KB

But from your remarks so far I'd say that you've never read anything on this subject. The pdf might one place to start. THIS would be a better one.

The opinions of Christians however do not derive from research projects undertaken by homosexual &/or gay activist professors of psychiatry. As Pastor Ezekiel has pointed out, God tells us what to think & that is what we think. I Corinthians 1:23

Praise Him!

[ObeseDegenerate]

Re: Greetings to all!

I never once said I would hit him at all in that part but rest assured kicking my butt is not something you would be capable of. Where did I even day I believed in the big bang theory, cuz I never did. Leaning to read must be a challenge too great for some

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Greetings to all!

Boy oh boy, ezekial I would love to actually meet you in person, but I know for a fact you would be afraid to even approach me in person. All you seem to do is run that mouth over the Internet. You clearly set a great christain example.... Haha. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror kid. I feel like I'm being mocked by middle school kids at this point

So you resort to threats of physical violence when you realize you can't hold your own in a gentlemanly debate.

How pathetic.

PS: If you come anywhere near Pastor Zeke, I'll personally kick your ass.

[ObeseDegenerate]

Re: Greetings to all!

Boy oh boy, ezekial I would love to actually meet you in person, but I know for a fact you would be afraid to even approach me in person. All you seem to do is run that mouth over the Internet. You clearly set a great christain example.... Haha. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror kid. I feel like I'm being mocked by middle school kids at this point

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Greetings to all!

Should that anger me or something? If you thought so, you were wrong. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. If I had some of the studies I've read on hand I'd gladly show them but in response I'd likely just get called a fool, scum, or trash, among other insults thrown my way which doesn't set a very good christain example. We just simply have to agree to disagree on this one

Hello, Equality. I would love to read a scientific paper showing actual scientific evidence that homosexuality has a genetic component, and I would not to call you names if you could cite such a paper.

Otherwise, please behave like an adult and admit that you were wrong about it.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Greetings to all!

Perhaps if you were more educated in psychology you would understand that for those who are gay , it's not by choice, it's in the brain from birth. They are born that way

Perhaps if you put your faith in Christ Jesus instead of hook-nosed joos like Sigmund Freud you would understand that it doesn't matter one whit whether queers like you are "born that way" or not. Either way, it is God who throws stumbling blocks your way. And I would say being a perverted limp-wristed homer is about as big a stumbling block as there is. God gives you this stumbling block because He wants you to perish, and spend eternity being tortured down in hell.

Jeremiah 6:21 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his friend shall perish.