[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

More or less civilized people arrived in New Zealand by canoe in about AD 1250–1300. This canoe is still the most advanced form of transportation New Zealand has.

Excuse me, Mr.Cranky, but how does this even remotely proove that God "hates" New Zealand? Or possibly I have missed the point entirely, and if that is the case then I solemnly apologise for falsly questioning you.

To be honest, I was slightly offended by this statement. I had the impression that you honestly thought that New Zealand such a primitive country, as to still hold a canoe from the "1250-1300" era as the most "advanced from of transportation". however, I assure you that whatever offence I have taken,I will still hold strongly to reason.

Continueing on and ignoring the possibility that God "Hates" countries with primitive seafaring structures, I will attempt to correct this statement, and prove that that very same canoe is not the most advanced form of transportation New Zealand has. Today, the biggest city in New Zealand (Auckland ) is known as the 'City of Sails' due to the large number of sailboats and small water vessels.

Now, let's just think for a moment.. choose any ONE of those water vessels in Auckland.. and compare how "advanced" it is to the ancient "canoe" that the Maori people rode whilst discovering New Zealand in the year "1250-1300". Reason has me to believe... that it will be the modern water vessel that is more "advanced".
That ancient "canoe" may have been massive, and it may have had much more effort put into it by the Maori people, however it will never be more "advanced" than it's opponent from 710-760 years into the future.

I believe a link was given by Bryan Tamariki( http://www.navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/cant/default.htm) Which describes the first of seven naval ships recently constructed for the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN). Undoubtedly, this ship is more "advanced" than that ancient "canoe".

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Many people in New Zealand die because they ignore the Holy Bible and mistakenly think Earth is a globe. Then they fall off the edge. New Zealand is in denial about this and claims a lot of people drown in the Waikato River to explain these "mysterious" deaths. 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

I come to this site with an open mind so I may learn your teachings, so I'm not going to say that the world is a globe, however I don't see how your link to the New Zealand Herald supports your claim that New Zealand denies this by covering it up by Waikato River deaths.
Your article clearly explains a death in the "Waikato River", but where is the evidence that this article is a genuine coverup of a death caused by falling off the edge?.

Waikato river is in the North island, it connects to the west coast and runs along to the center of the island. If the Earth ends on the "East of New Zealand", it would be much more suited to use a river connecting to the east side of the island? However, this is not the point.

I do not say this in denial, but in evidence; in all the years I have lived in New Zealand, I have not seen the edge of the earth, I have not heard of the edge of the earth, I have not heard of deaths due to the edge of the earth. In New Zealand they do not detain us to certain areas, we are allowed to travel along and outward of New Zealand's East Coast, just for the record.

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

New Zealand claims to be a peaceful nation but in reality no one ever cared enough to invade it and no one there owns enough to make any form of crime profitable. And there is nothing peaceful about the way in which the Māori are mistreated. Many Māori are in jail for crimes that don't even exist in New Zealand and ancient Māori rock-art is often damaged or destroyed. The government has provided over NZ$900 million (about 7 American Dollars) in settlements in an attempt to undo some of the severe damage done to the Māori.

Excuse me Mr.Cranky, I do this not purely to rebuke you or prove you wrong, but to show you your points need revision to show that God "hates" New Zealand. could you please elaborate on the "many maori" that are in jail for crimes that don't even exist?

In regards to NZD$900million, it actually converts to USD$644040433.90, (644million) thanks to Coinmill.com or any currency converter, not USD$7 as you mentioned.

When British explorer James Cook started trading in 1769 the people of New Zealand mostly paid for the goods with sex. For those in denial about this: King (2003) pg 122.

Again, I'm evaluating your points not to cause a stir, but so that you may hopefully correct them to provide valid points as to why God hates New Zealand

"Mostly paid for the goods with sex", this gives quite a different impression to your Fellow Brothers and Sisters and Readers than what is actually on the evidence you have referenced. " They traded European food and goods, especially metal tools and weapons, for Māori timber, food, artefacts and water. On occasion, Europeans traded goods for sex."

"Mostly" and "On occasion" are very different.
I hope that was an honest mistake, Mr. Cranky. However, the light shed here only confirms that European goods were purchased Occasionaly with Maori sex.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

I do not doubt that sheep rape exists in New Zealand

You are the first visitor from New Zealand who openly admits this and I applaud you for that! Most people from New Zealand are in complete denial about this.

although I do not have the accurate recent statistical evidence that New Zealand doesn't have the highest amount of sheep rape, I doubt

You are contradicting yourself here. You say you have no facts and yet you reach a conclusion.

I have seen the term "sheep shagger" used here, I'd like to say in support of the response from Freeks-Angel: "it is a joke they created".

I am aware most people in New Zealand are in denial about sheep rape. You are one of the few people from New Zealand who actually admits it exists. However since it is not possible to deny that a lot of people call you "sheep shaggers" the only way to stay in denial is to claim "it is a joke".

There has always been contempt between groups of individuals from Australia and New Zealand

But of course! The people of Australia are disgusted by you raping sheep, so they call you out on that!

I come to this site with an open mind so I may learn your teachings, so I'm not going to say that the world is a globe, however I don't see how your link to the New Zealand Herald supports your claim that New Zealand denies this by covering it up by Waikato River deaths. Your article clearly explains a death in the "Waikato River", but where is the evidence that this article is a genuine coverup of a death caused by falling off the edge?.

In the Holy Bible: Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11.

I have not heard of the edge of the earth, I have not heard of deaths due to the edge of the earth. In New Zealand they do not detain us to certain areas, we are allowed to travel along and outward of New Zealand's East Coast, just for the record.

And this is exactly the problem. New Zealand is in denial of this, people die because of this and the Waikato River gets the blame.

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

You are contradicting yourself here. You say you have no facts and yet you reach a conclusion.

if you were to continue reading on.

although I do not have the accurate recent statistical evidence that New Zealand doesn't have the highest amount of sheep rape,I doubt that you, Mr. Cranky, would have any accurate recent statistical evidence either to support your claim of New Zealand having the highest amount of sheep rape.

I am aware most people in New Zealand are in denial about sheep rape. You are one of the few people from New Zealand who actually admits it exists. However since it is not possible to deny that a lot of people call you "sheep shaggers" the only way to stay in denial is to claim "it is a joke".

The history behind it is in the link provided. Of course, you could dismiss it without a care, but that raises interest in your determination to believe hearsay.

But of course! The people of Australia are disgusted by you raping sheep, so they call you out on that!

Mr. Cranky, would you know this as a fact?

And this is exactly the problem. New Zealand is in denial of this, people die because of this and the Waikato River gets the blame.

Do you have evidence of where exactly the World ends?, for all we may know, the "eastern border" could be far off the coast.

[Brother Enoch]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Excuse me Mr.Cranky, I do this not purely to rebuke you or prove you wrong, but to show you your points need revision to show that God "hates" New Zealand. could you please elaborate on the "many maori" that are in jail for crimes that don't even exist?

Tell me, Bob, is it or is it not true that the Maori represent a scant 14% of your population yet make up 50% of your prison population?

How could this be if your society was not deliberately persecuting and prosecuting them for made up crimes? Are you trying to say the Maori are natural born criminals?

I had no idea of the levels of racism that exist on your poxy islands.

I finally understand what Australian Prime Minister John Howard meant a few years ago when he said "Australians moving to New Zealand is a good thing. It increases the average IQ of both nations."

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Tell me, Bob, is it or is it not true that the Maori represent a scant 14% of your population yet make up 50% of your prison population?

I do not know the specific percentage of both cases, Brother Enoch, so I cannot say if it is true. However I do know that the more recent generations of Maori exhibit an increased jail rate compared to other ethnicities

How could this be if your society was not deliberately persecuting and prosecuting them for made up crimes? Are you trying to say the Maori are natural born criminals?

I am not saying that the "Maori are natural born criminals". You ask me how is it possible for such a high jail rate among Maori without being prosecuted and persecuted with bias. I respond with saying that the Maori people that are persecuted and prosecuted actually do the crimes. Of course, it would be ignorant to say that any justice system in any country is 'Perfect', Nz and US included, so it would be wise to assume Not everybody is judged according to the situation, this applies to all races of all Justice systems.

I had no idea of the levels of racism that exist on your poxy islands.

I have lived on that "poxy" island for 16 years, and I say that this Island has racism at minimal levels, what I do not understand is how you would reach the conclusion of racism so easily without witnessing the situation for yourself.

I finally understand what Australian Prime Minister John Howard meant a few years ago when he said "Australians moving to New Zealand is a good thing. It increases the average IQ of both nations."

I believe you have made an honest mistake. It was Robert MuldoonThat said “New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia raise the IQ of both countries.”

[Brother Enoch]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

I do not know the specific percentage of both cases, Brother Enoch, so I cannot say if it is true. However I do know that the more recent generations of Maori exhibit an increased jail rate compared to other ethnicities

Why?

I am not saying that the "Maori are natural born criminals". You ask me how is it possible for such a high jail rate among Maori without being prosecuted and persecuted with bias. I respond with saying that the Maori people that are persecuted and prosecuted actually do the crimes.

Why?

Of course, it would be ignorant to say that any justice system in any country is 'Perfect', Nz and US included, so it would be wise to assume Not everybody is judged according to the situation, this applies to all races of all Justice systems.

All races? Seems if you're Maori you are 8 times as likely to be imprisoned.

I have lived on that "poxy" island for 16 years, and I say that this Island has racism at minimal levels, what I do not understand is how you would reach the conclusion of racism so easily without witnessing the situation for yourself.

The numbers speak for themselves. 8 times as many Maori are imprisoned (per capita) as those of european descent. That means either your justice system unfairly penalizes them, or your society creates societal conditions that impoverish that segment of your society, based only on ethnicity, thus leading to crime. Right?

I mean, it has to be one of those two unless you really are saying Maori are natural born criminals, and naught is to be done. Other than to lock them up. Are you saying that?

I believe you have made an honest mistake. It was Robert MuldoonThat said

“New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia raise the IQ of both countries.”

Yet another example of the New Zealand government's internet censorship and rearrangement of the facts. A kiwi would never be clever enough to say something like that.

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Yet another example of the New Zealand government's internet censorship and rearrangement of the facts. A kiwi would never be clever enough to say something like that.

Fortunately for me, your reliance on sly mocks only make you look silly.

You ask why?
I say that whatever I write will not reside in your mind, so what else can I do to enlighten you than ask you to do more research on the matter yourself.

I understand you already have some figuires concerning the Maori people and Jail, but coming up with two conclusions based on that much alone is silly. I urge you (if you have the will) to search these answers yourself if you disregard when I say that Almost all convicted Maori actually do the crime, and that there are no ''made-up'' crimes in New Zealand.

Disregard it if you will and claim that I am in denial simply because it conflicts with what you have pre-determined, but then I urge you to gather some facts with your internet, because you are convinced that New Zealand internet is "censord" when it comes to racism and various other topics that conflict with your vision of New Zealand.

You give me two options: "either your justice system unfairly penalizes them, or your society creates societal conditions that impoverish that segment of your society, based only on ethnicity, thus leading to crime."
Neither, I believe that the way things are now concerning Maori people and Jailtime is a result of generations of childhoods that are influenced to a varying degree by violence, alcahol, crime.
I am not saying that all Maori children were brought up with destructive childhoods, but the amount that correlates to your data. I believe that fault cannot be placed on any group for this outcome.
But this is all personal opinion based on living proudly among Maori families.

[Brother Enoch]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

You give me two options: "either your justice system unfairly penalizes them, or your society creates societal conditions that impoverish that segment of your society, based only on ethnicity, thus leading to crime."
Neither, I believe that the way things are now concerning Maori people and Jailtime is a result of generations of childhoods that are influenced to a varying degree by violence, alcahol, crime.
I am not saying that all Maori children were brought up with destructive childhoods, but the amount that correlates to your data.

So you're saying it's neither option I gave you, then you go on to say it's the second?

Did you ride the short bus to school?

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

So you're saying it's neither option I gave you, then you go on to say it's the second?

Did you ride the short bus to school?

Thank you for the second snide comment of the night.
They are clearly different:

"your society creates societal conditions that impoverish that segment of your society, based only on ethnicity, thus leading to crime."
Implies that the society actively degraded a ethnic group through means of racism and/or prejudice. I also imagine a majority having the belief that any ethnic group apart from them is 'inferior' also leads to this outcome

"generations of childhoods that are influenced to a varying degree by violence, alcahol, crime."
Implies that this ethnic group was (moreorless the frequency correlating to your data(50%?)) self-driven into this outcome.

I like how you jumped in strong with your facts, held up a nice exchange of knowledge then slowly backed off with mocks.
I imagine I can learn much from this site.

[Brother Enoch]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Thank you for the second snide comment of the night.
They are clearly different:

"your society creates societal conditions that impoverish that segment of your society, based only on ethnicity, thus leading to crime."
Implies that the society actively degraded a ethnic group through means of racism and/or prejudice. I also imagine a majority having the belief that any ethnic group apart from them is 'inferior' also leads to this outcome

"generations of childhoods that are influenced to a varying degree by violence, alcahol, crime."
Implies that this ethnic group was (moreorless the frequency correlating to your data(50%?)) self-driven into this outcome.

So you're saying the Maori are inherently flawed. That was the third option I gave you.

And proves you are a racist.

[Levi Jones]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Another sheep is scared.

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

So you're saying the Maori are inherently flawed. That was the third option I gave you.

And proves you are a racist.

I believe you have interpreted what I have said incorrectly

"generations of childhoods that are influenced to a varying degree by violence, alcahol, crime."

Assumption made from:most children, including Maori and Polynesian, with a good childhood/upbringing from birth will show less jail rates compared to the situation.
Inherently? so you're trying to assume that the Maori people are born destined for Jail? Of course not, I'm calling out on the parenting.

And proves you are a racist.

Hold your horses, it doesn't prove anything in the first place.
And this thread should be about Mr.Cranky's points (or credibility thereof) as to why God "hates" New Zealand.
So I will await until someone improves the credibility of his points, or makes new reasons as to why God hates New Zealand.

This thread is about: Why God Hates New Zealand.
Your conclusion: I'm " a racist"
Untrue in the first place, but it really shouldn't divert from the original idea that needs to be discussed,(Mr.Cranky's 8 points)
to the point of speculating the other person's personal life.

[DevoutBob]

Re: 8 Reasons why God hates New Zealand!

Another sheep is scared.

Still believe that sheep rape is commonplace enough for people to enjoy the picture you made? I'm assuming you made it because the New Zealand army does not wear blue hats, and has no flag with black,blue,gold border and what appears to be a jousting knight and horse.