[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: oh....

I'll hit the high points for you:

Okay, here are my Scriptual problems with you! (some...)


Firstly it is not Biblical to call someone "unsaved *trash*".

I believe you've already been told that everyone who joins this forum, until properly vetted, is labeled "Unsaved Trash". This is to prevent something which you surely must have seen by now, people joining up and immediately pretending to represent Landover Baptist Church or Christianity in general.

Somebody also said that I hate baby Jesus.

1. Jesus isn't a baby. He was in his early thirties when He died on the cross.

I'm not a huge fan of the "Baby Jesus" image either, but it's a term of affection. Do bear in mind that, relative to His Father, Jesus is but a mere babe.

2. The Bible says what it means to love Jesus. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 To those of you who would insult me: I do keep Jesus' commandments, not that you would know that. I just don't believe, that these are Jesus' commandments; I believe you made them up.

Jesus' commandments are everything in the Old and New Testaments. Do you keep all 600+ commandments in both testaments, or just the ones you like?

I came on here looking to keep His commandments, and inquire further. But all I seen people doing on here was insulting other people, who questioned that they were the ultimate authority on the matter.

We are not the authority on God's Commandments. The Bible is. Have you read it yet?

My Dad always told me, that if you cannot or not are allowed to even listen to something that contradicts what you believe, then what you believe is not worth believing in. The truth is not like that, it can stand all attacks. Jesus can stand up to all attacks because He is the truth. (the way, and the life, John 14:6) Why would I come to you then?

Good question. Why did you come to us? Were you having difficulties with your Bible studies? Did it not say what you wanted it to say?

I cannot believe that you think that Jesus' precious blood is somehow not pure enough that it couldn't save an Ethiopian, or someone from Denmark. You are insulting my Lord! That they could do something so wrong, or be so evil that Jesus righteousness couldn't exceed it! That is blasphemy! Blasphemy makes me sick!

Who said that? Any person of any race or nationality can be saved. They have to make that choice, however. It appears, by the lack of Christians in Denmark and Ethiopia, that those people have a more difficult time making that choice.

Also the statement that I don't love Him is just foolish . . . And your bearing false witness against me, which is one of the ten commandments.

Bearing false witness is perjury. Our statement of our perception -- that you do not keep His 600+ commandments, thus you do not love Jesus -- is not an accusation, nor is it a false statement under oath.

An Ethiopian was saved In The Bible!

Thereby demonstrating my point made above. ONE Ethiopian. Not all, not most, not many, not dozens. ONE.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 Every kid in Sunday school believed that if you just believed on Jesus that you would be Saved, so that is a child's interpretation of the Scripture. It doesn't say anything about your race.

No, it doesn't. Addressed above.

"AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT WHOSOEVER SHALLL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED." Acts 2:21 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be Saved. It doesn't say except those who are black or are from Denmark...

Addressed above. Are you black and from Denmark or something?

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15 It doesn't say, "...save Denmark. I hate Denmark, so you guys make sure you spit on people who are from Denmark." The Bible doesn't mention Denmark. It says preach the gospel to all of the world to every living creature.

And we do. It doesn't mean they will receive it. We are instructed to abandon those who refuse the Gospel.

Mark 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

(Same commandment found in Matthew 10 and Luke 9, and placed in action in Acts 13.)

"For there is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:11 Mmmm?

Put it in context and try again once you understand it.

Jesus never called anyone a "slut". Even when He ran into what you would call one.

Did Jesus condemn her? No. What did He do? Tell her to go and sin no more.

No, but He did tell her to give up her harlotry, didn't He? He didn't say she could go get herself another husband, did He? She already knew of her sins.

It also says in Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God;" It says, all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (*ALL*)

I have ought to say with you those who say Christians are better than other people: those of you that glory in yourself and not in God. I also have ought to say to persuade you of thinking sinners are trash.

I John 1:7-10, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

None of us say we have not sinned. We say we are now without sin. If you read a little more of 1 John, you'd know why:

1 John 3: 4-9

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Once born again in Christ, we are unable to sin. If we do sin, it is evidence that we are not saved. Those who are not saved are cast into God's Incinerator like so much . . . What? Oh, yes. Trash. Of the unsaved variety.

Also the Bible says that Jesus did not come to save the righteous, but sinners! It says so in the Bible. Also, He ate with sinners and not with the Jewish religious leaders known as Pharisess!

Yes, your point?

The Pharisees knew to keep the Law. Sinners did not. The Pharisees were already secure in their salvation under the Law, so long as they followed every commandment.

OF COURSE He came to reach out to sinners!

Jesus didn't damn "unsaved trash" to Hell. He left His Heavenly throne and gave up his life, for not the righteous, but sinners!

Actually, all those who don't repent -- that is, beg His forgiveness and STOP SINNING -- will be cast into God's Hell, where they will be burned alive for all eternity with no hope of escape. But that's their own choice.

And some of you think genecide is all right. But Jesus commanded us to:

Numbers 31. The Midianites, who left Judaism to serve other gods in peace and without hostility to the other tribes. Go read it, then come back and tell me that God, who is Jesus, does not approve of genocide.

However, God did tell people to kill people for certain things. Adultery, is one of them. But Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress in John 8:1-11 Scripture doesn't contradict! God also told Israel to kill alot of people in the surrounding countries, when they went to possess the promise land in the Old Testament. But the Bible tells us not to kill. You either believe that the Scripture contradicts itself, or that there is an explaination.

Of course. There is murder, and there is execution. If God commands an execution, the executee's blood is on his own hands, for he (or she) has chosen to break God's Law and accept the penalty.

So the above says in paraphrase, Now we know that what the law says, it is saying it to them who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Thus, by what the law is, and says: no flesh will be justified in God's eyes, because the law explains what sin is. For everyone everywhere has sinned and has failed to acheive the righteousness of God. Is that not what it says?

Um, the law was known as soon as Eve chomped on the forbidden fruit, introducing sin into the world.

That's as far as I'm going with this for the moment.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: oh....

Sooo.... there is no way, and nothing in the Old Testament to make me believe that God excludes people from Salvation,

Then why did God create Hell?

There seem to be some parts of the Holy Bible you are completely ignoring. For example: Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Another example, sinners are sent to Hell for sinning or for not believing in Him: Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

And God sends sinners to Hell in the Old Testament as well: Numbers 16:30 "But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD."

And don't respond with just your opinion please, you are going to have to back it up with Scripture.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: oh....

[Levi Jones]

Re: oh....

I cannot believe that you think that Jesus' precious blood is somehow not pure enough that it couldn't save an Ethiopian, or someone from Denmark. You are insulting my Lord! That they could do something so wrong, or be so evil that Jesus righteousness couldn't exceed it! That is blasphemy! Blasphemy makes me sick!

Did God love Ahab? 1 Kings 16 Did God love Gilgal? Hosea 9 What of Sodom and Gomorrah? Of course they can be saved, but they have to be warned they are doing wrong in the first place.

Also the statement that I don't love Him is just foolish. To say it you must believe that I have some love toward Him, because it wouldn't matter to someone who was say...a self-proclaimed satanist or something. It would be like me saying, "You don't love satan!" Obviously, that wouldn't bother you. Actually, it doesn't bother me either that you say I don't love Jesus, because it is not up to you to decide. And your bearing false witness against me, which is one of the ten commandments.

You probably do love the LORD, but we gets thousands of God mockers here every day. It can be difficult to tell the good guys from the bad sometimes. Even some false Christians show up here saying things like we shouldn't follow the Old Testament. We shouldn't care about works.

To them, I quote.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

An Ethiopian was saved In The Bible!
The Holy Spirit guided Philip to this man, an Ethiopian and He was saved.

Amen! I know of another Ethiopian who is saved.

It seems to be made more difficult thanks to the curse of Ham for looking upon his father's nakedness for all eternity after God flooded the entire earth.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 Every kid in Sunday school believed that if you just believed on Jesus that you would be Saved, so that is a child's interpretation of the Scripture. It doesn't say anything about your race.

Yes, but it clearly says that those who do not believe are subject to perishing in John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What does God tell His people about mixing in with non-believers?

Deuteronomy 7:2-4 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

2 Corinthians 6:14-15Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Part 2

[Levi Jones]

Re: oh....

"AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT WHOSOEVER SHALLL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED." Acts 2:21 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be Saved. It doesn't say except those who are black or are from Denmark... None of the children draw that away from it. I don't know of where the Bible specifically mentions that. I know that it does have alot to say about only marrying your own race...

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will no wise cast out." John 6:37

Exactly! Do you realize that we have people from Denmark who are committed to our spreading the Word of Christ over there now? It's all thanks to one dedicated American and his computer that we are attracting a large following from the Denmarkians?

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15 It doesn't say, "...save Denmark. I hate Denmark, so you guys make sure you spit on people who are from Denmark." The Bible doesn't mention Denmark. It says preach the gospel to all of the world to every living creature.

See my comments above and we even organized a mission trip to Denmark last year to save their souls. You can't say we aren't preaching to them.

"For there is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:11 Mmmm?

Only within the Kingdom of Heaven. Look at Ephesians 6. Paul says the same thing right after speaking of slavery. He is speaking about one's standing within the Body of Christ.

There are clearly differences within this lifetime in status.

9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Jesus never called anyone a "slut". Even when He ran into what you would call one.

Not slut, but its forebear "harlot or whore" is used multiple times.

1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

Leviticus 19:29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.


Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.


Part 3

[Levi Jones]

Re: oh....

More explicit in John 8:1-11: Did Jesus condemn her? No. What did He do? Tell her to go and sin no more.

Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone.

It also says in Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God;" It says, all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (*ALL*)

That is prior to Salvation. Read what Paul writes in verse 25.

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I have ought to say with you those who say Christians are better than other people: those of you that glory in yourself and not in God. I also have ought to say to persuade you of thinking sinners are trash.

Here's what Paul says about that.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I John 1:7-10, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Precisely, cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Let's look further into 1 John go to chapter 3.
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

David said, in Psalm 143:2, "And enter not into judgement with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified."

2 Samuel 22:24 I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.

Isaiah 64:6: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away."

That is the prophet Isaiah speaking of Israel's pending destruction at the hand of Cyrus.

Matthew 9:10-13 "And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Maser with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

That is if they repent. John and Paul clearly tells us to steer clear of the unsaved.

And some of you think genecide is all right. But Jesus commanded us to:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in Heaven: for he maketh the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans and sinners the same? And if ye salute your brethern only, what do ye more thant others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:44-48

Again? I already explained what Jesus said to do with non-believers. We are to shake the dust from our feet.

One of the Ten Commandments is "...Thou Shalt Not Kill..."

However, God did tell people to kill people for certain things. Adultery, is one of them. But Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress in John 8:1-11 Scripture doesn't contradict! God also told Israel to kill alot of people in the surrounding countries, when they went to possess the promise land in the Old Testament. But the Bible tells us not to kill. You either believe that the Scripture contradicts itself, or that there is an explaination. They *were* at war. We *are* at war also. We *are not* the kingdom of Israel. We *are* the Kingdom of God. Who is *our* enemy?

In that context kill refers to murder. God gives us plenty of examples not only included in the Old Testament. Here is another. Perhaps you have heard it?

Ecclesiastes 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

*sigh* part 4. I hope you actually read this.

[Levi Jones]

Re: oh....

Also, if adulterers, were to be stoned, why then didn't Jesus stone her?

Because Jesus wanted to show them their sinful nature. He also left the woman with a warning to go and sin no more.

I always told that they were in the Age of the Law and when Jesus came, we entered the Age of Mercy and Grace, and that God deals with people differently now. "...But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE:..." I was told things are done differently now than in the Old Testament. Do we still sacrifice animals? Or was Jesus' sacrifice enough? I surely, hope so because no flesh is justified in His sight.

There are plenty of Old Testament scriptures that call for no more sacrifice. For some reason the Jews refused to listen.
Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

Jesus is directly quoting from here.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

John 7:19 "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?..."

Reread Matthew 5..
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Also Read Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is directly quoting Deuteronomy 8:3
3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Jesus summed up all His commanments, and what He wanted you to do, in just two commandments:

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said, that those two commandments summed up "all the law and the prophets", or every word of the law, and every word of the prophets in the Old Testament.

I thought we had to believe in Christ as well as John 3 says... Why did Jesus say he did not come to abolish the Law in Matthew 5?

If Jesus wanted us to abandon the OT, why is He directly quoting from it?

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Done, I really hope you bother reading this.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: oh....

One more thing to add, Brother:

Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said, that those two commandments summed up "all the law and the prophets", or every word of the law, and every word of the prophets in the Old Testament.

Revelation, you have here interpreted. As so often happens, you have misinterpreted.

Jesus did not say that those two commandments summed up anything. He said that everything else "hangs on" those two commandments. They are the foundation upon which the Law is built.

Loving God is why you follow His 600+ commandments.

[handmaiden]

Re: oh....

destroys the earth... And God will destroy those who destroy the earth. So I wouldn't make it a habit.

Well, our young friend has much to say. I suspect that she may be unable to learn. Very few people have the courage to face the truth that the Bible offers.

What is particularly amusing is how she /he takes exception with our judgmental stance and then implies that God will destroy us in the quote above.

It would have been nice to read the precise verse where God informs the world that He will destroy those that destroy the earth. Everything that I have ever taken from the Bible suggests that this Earth is passing away and that our hope of heaven is all that matters.

My heart goes out to this young person. Her/His clear need for comfort will stand in the way of any true appreciation of the Bible.

The real tragedy is that she/he is so intent on getting to heaven, when an honest evaluation of the Biblical evidence suggests that she/he will not do so.


Poignantly Yours,

Handmaiden

[Revelation2010]

Re: oh....

Oh, my name is Revelation 20:10 not Revelation, or Revelation the year 2010, just so you know...

Quote: Originally Posted by Revelation2010
More explicit in John 8:1-11: Did Jesus condemn her? No. What did He do? Tell her to go and sin no more.
Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone.
Yes, He also said, neither do I condemn thee. Then He commanded her to sin no more. He gave her a chance, even though she already sinned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
It also says in Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God;" It says, all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (*ALL*)

That is prior to Salvation. Read what Paul writes in verse 25.

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Yes. Jesus died on the cross in the past. He paid the price for all sins, at that moment in time. God considers all the sins anyone commits (of those who accept Him) paid for in the past, even after you get saved. Otherwise Christians born after Jesus died, wouldn't be able to get saved.We still have a sinful body. That is why Jesus is going to give us new bodies! The handmaiden must think that some people still sin...
But God considers them paid for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
I have ought to say with you those who say Christians are better than other people: those of you that glory in yourself and not in God. I also have ought to say to persuade you of thinking sinners are trash.

Here's what Paul says about that.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Yes, but the Bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." What kind of judgment is He talking about? I believe that this judgement, (pardon the only Scriptual references at the moment, I haven't much time online this morning to type alot ..) is refering to when Jesus, said that when He leaves He would send them, a comforter, (the Holy Spirit), in John 14:16;26 and 16:13, and the Bible does say, that He will guide you into all truth. And that is when he is spiritual, or walking with God.

Furthermore Jesus never called anyone trash. I see you didn't deal with the scripture in Romans, where it says that God has no respect of persons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
I John 1:7-10, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Precisely, cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Let's look further into 1 John go to chapter 3.
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

I'm not saying that we aren't righteous, but that we aren't this way of our own fleshly accord. We were no more just than them before we were saved. It is God that justifieth.
Yes, he was manifested to take way our sins. If they needed to be taken away we already had them. That is why we pray in Jesus' name, because He justifies us so that we may go before God's throne.
But:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I will not say that I have no sin.
"Have" is present tense, not past. In the last verse it is past tense. They are two different statements. If we confess then He will forgive, but we are still justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
David said, in Psalm 143:2, "And enter not into judgement with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified."

2 Samuel 22:24 I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.

Have you ever read the book of Job? "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant, Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" Job 1:8
God said that this man was perfect, and upright that no man in the earth was like him. Yet, He judged him. And He was right doing so! The book of Job said that the stars were not even pure in God's sight. But I believe that we are better than the stars, because we have Jesus' blood over us. It is Jesus' righteosness not our own...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
Isaiah 64:6: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away."

That is the prophet Isaiah speaking of Israel's pending destruction at the hand of Cyrus. Well, God doesn't have respect of persons. I do know what He was talking about, I always applied it to myself. Sin is what causes death. If you sin once you are condemned. No matter how much right you do after that you still sinned. Jesus, just took on the death sentence for us so we could go free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
Matthew 9:10-13 "And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Maser with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

That is if they repent. John and Paul clearly tells us to steer clear of the unsaved.

Jesus ate with them before they repented. It doesn't say former sinners, it says publicans and sinners. What scriptures tell us to steer clear of the unsaved. I'm not saying this sarcastically, but I don't recall those. I only know, of when Jesus went into Heaven, He told us to go into the world, all of it, and preach the Gospel. I mean don't partake in their ways, sure! But they need witnessing to! As I see Jesus spent time with sinners, before they repented. Maybe that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
And some of you think genecide is all right. But Jesus commanded us to:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in Heaven: for he maketh the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans and sinners the same? And if ye salute your brethern only, what do ye more thant others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:44-48

Again? I already explained what Jesus said to do with non-believers. We are to shake the dust from our feet.

I know those scriptures.
No, He said to His disciples, to go to the sinners in different cities and preach. And if they didn't receive them, then leave and shake off the dust off of their feet. He said that it would be more tolerable when He came back, for Sodom, then it would be for that city. He was talking to His disciples about those cities.

Luke 10:8-12, "And in whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come night unto you. But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come night unto you. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for Sodom, than for that city."

It doesn't say anything about killing them! It just says leave! And He was telling that to the disciples. The Bible says that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood! Must I quote it again? Also God says that vengence is His.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
One of the Ten Commandments is "...Thou Shalt Not Kill..."

However, God did tell people to kill people for certain things. Adultery, is one of them. But Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress in John 8:1-11 Scripture doesn't contradict! God also told Israel to kill alot of people in the surrounding countries, when they went to possess the promise land in the Old Testament. But the Bible tells us not to kill. You either believe that the Scripture contradicts itself, or that there is an explaination. They *were* at war. We *are* at war also. We *are not* the kingdom of Israel. We *are* the Kingdom of God. Who is *our* enemy?

In that context kill refers to murder. God gives us plenty of examples not only included in the Old Testament. Here is another. Perhaps you have heard it?

Ecclesiastes 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Yes. I didn't say that we weren't supposed to kill. We aren't supposed to be done with the Old Testament. But God gave us the when and where. And He came not to destroy, but fulfill the law after all. But it is different now. We don't need to sacrifice animals, we don't worship in the temple... preachers don't have to sprinkle blood on their toes...

And I don't see where the Bible says about not including Denmark in Salvation. But that is because it doesn't. Those Scriptures in the Old Testament, about killing different peoples were the people who Israel was at war with. He told them not to marry them, but that is different. I don't think you are going to be able to convince me that God wants me to kill them. Those Scriptures also have nothing to do with Salvation. God didn't have too many nice things to say about Israel, many times, but He still showed mercy to her!

I believe that His new orders, were not to fight against flesh and blood. Jesus never fought anyone in the New Testament. At least until Revelation, which is in the future.

Besides, He saved an Ethiopian.

Taking the whole Bible together, this is what I sincerley believe.
If that's the best you got, you'll not convince me.

With all the rotten pms I've been getting, I don't think you are too Christianly.

I'm not at all unsure, or wavering in my own beliefs. But I am humble, and will listen. I didn't come on here looking for the truth. I saw someone's different opinion, and came on here to politely inquire, as to what Scriptual reasoning lead them to believe what they did. I can't help it if I don't agree with your reasoning.

Tell, you what. If you can show me a Scripture, that says that those people can't be Saved, precisely, I'd believe it. Sir, precisely I believe the Bible, and that all of it is true. No offense, but 'tis you I have doubts about. And in the New Testament, show me where Jesus told us to go out, or did and attack someone, before they attacked you, or committed a crime worthy of such, (save Revelation, since I believe that also to be a future age), and convincingly Scriptual references where it nullify's "love your enemies", and "don't wrestle with flesh and blood".

I'll not be convinced short of that. It doesn't seem like to much to ask does it?

Re: oh....
My response to the rest:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
Also, if adulterers, were to be stoned, why then didn't Jesus stone her?

Because Jesus wanted to show them their sinful nature. He also left the woman with a warning to go and sin no more.


Yes, that was what the Old Testament was for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
I always told that they were in the Age of the Law and when Jesus came, we entered the Age of Mercy and Grace, and that God deals with people differently now. "...But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE:..." I was told things are done differently now than in the Old Testament. Do we still sacrifice animals? Or was Jesus' sacrifice enough? I surely, hope so because no flesh is justified in His sight.

There are plenty of Old Testament scriptures that call for no more sacrifice. For some reason the Jews refused to listen.
Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

Jesus is directly quoting from here.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
John 7:19 "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?..."

Reread Matthew 5..
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Also Read Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is directly quoting Deuteronomy 8:3
3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Of course! What point are you trying to make? I'm just saying, that everybody sinned. That they were sinners, before they met Jesus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
Jesus summed up all His commanments, and what He wanted you to do, in just two commandments:

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said, that those two commandments summed up "all the law and the prophets", or every word of the law, and every word of the prophets in the Old Testament.

I thought we had to believe in Christ as well as John 3 says... Why did Jesus say he did not come to abolish the Law in Matthew 5?

If Jesus wanted us to abandon the OT, why is He directly quoting from it?

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

I never said that we should abandon it, or that Jesus wanted us to I know those Scriptures. But we don't worship at the temple, or do other things that were done in the Old Testament. I am saying Jesus gave us new orders in the New, and we are to follow them. Like if you were in the army. The General tells you patrol, then later on he tells you to guard. You don't keep patrolling, you guard! Jesus said love your enemies! And that we don't wrestle with flesh and blood! Future Christians are not trash! You go to sinners, and witness to them, then they become something special!

Again, I also see you didn't say anything about the Ethiopian.

Re: oh....
One more thing to add, Brother:

Quote:
Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said, that those two commandments summed up "all the law and the prophets", or every word of the law, and every word of the prophets in the Old Testament.
Revelation, you have here interpreted. As so often happens, you have misinterpreted.

Jesus did not say that those two commandments summed up anything. He said that everything else "hangs on" those two commandments. They are the foundation upon which the Law is built.

No I understand. I made a poor choice of words. They hang on them. It is like a family tree, and they branch out. I know that there are more than Ten Commandments, but if we obey those two to the absolute we are obeying them all. It says the law and the prophets, like Deuteronomy, the rest of the books of the Law, and the books of the Prophets hang on those. Unless there is a commandment somewhere, and Jeremiah, and the law are hanging from it on clothes hangers. I always took it to mean that they were the reasons, for those other commandments.

[Revelation2010]

Re: oh....

Well, our young friend has much to say. I suspect that she may be unable to learn. Very few people have the courage to face the truth that the Bible offers.

What is particularly amusing is how she /he takes exception with our judgmental stance and then implies that God will destroy us in the quote above.

It would have been nice to read the precise verse where God informs the world that He will destroy those that destroy the earth. Everything that I have ever taken from the Bible suggests that this Earth is passing away and that our hope of heaven is all that matters.

My heart goes out to this young person. Her/His clear need for comfort will stand in the way of any true appreciation of the Bible.

The real tragedy is that she/he is so intent on getting to heaven, when an honest evaluation of the Biblical evidence suggests that she/he will not do so.


Poignantly Yours,

Handmaiden

Oh! Pardon me! Revelation 11:18 "...and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

[Levi Jones]

Re: oh....

Yes, but the Bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." What kind of judgment is He talking about? I believe that this judgement, (pardon the only Scriptual references at the moment, I haven't much time online this morning to type alot ..) is refering to when Jesus, said that when He leaves He would send them, a comforter, (the Holy Spirit), in John 14:16;26 and 16:13, and the Bible does say, that He will guide you into all truth. And that is when he is spiritual, or walking with God.

Judge not, lest ye be judged is one of the most often taken out of context passages in the entire Bible. If you continue reading Matthew 7, it is speaking about hypocritical judgment.

Christians are free to judge as long it is not hypocritically or merely by appearances.

Furthermore Jesus never called anyone trash.

No, but He calls people broods of vipers. He also tells a follower to not bother burying his father.

Jesus tells us that
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 14 26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus calls someone outside of His own race a dog. Yeah, He heals her daughter, but only after she begs.

I see you didn't deal with the scripture in Romans, where it says that God has no respect of persons.

Yes I did. I explained to you that it was within the eyes of God. Paul speaks often on the differences in status within this lifetime.

Women aren't allowed to speak. Slaves obey your masters.. etc.

I'm not saying that we aren't righteous, but that we aren't this way of our own fleshly accord. We were no more just than them before we were saved. It is God that justifieth.
Yes, he was manifested to take way our sins. If they needed to be taken away we already had them. That is why we pray in Jesus' name, because He justifies us so that we may go before God's throne.
But:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I will not say that I have no sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

Again, that's prior to salvation. John goes on to write in the exact same epistle that we are sin free and blood bought.

It all relates to the cast the first stone at her quote. If you are a True Christian, you are sin free. Pass me the rock.

Jesus ate with them before they repented. It doesn't say former sinners, it says publicans and sinners. What scriptures tell us to steer clear of the unsaved. I'm not saying this sarcastically, but I don't recall those.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

I know those scriptures.
No, He said to His disciples, to go to the sinners in different cities and preach. And if they didn't receive them, then leave and shake off the dust off of their feet. He said that it would be more tolerable when He came back, for Sodom, then it would be for that city. He was talking to His disciples about those cities.

Shake the dust from your feet only applies to the Disciples, but "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature," applies to everyone?

Wow! It must be nice to have such a direct line into the mind of God.

I don't think you are going to be able to convince me that God wants me to kill them.

I wasn't trying to convince you to kill the Denmarkians.

I'm stating that we are delivering a warning based on the Scriptures.

God didn't have too many nice things to say about Israel, many times, but He still showed mercy to her!

Not really until 1948, but we'll see how long it lasts this time until they anger God again.

Besides, He saved an Ethiopian.
Again, I also see you didn't say anything about the Ethiopian.

Speaking of.

Zephaniah 2:12 Ye Ethiopians also, ye shall be slain by my sword.

I'm not at all unsure, or wavering in my own beliefs. But I am humble, and will listen. I didn't come on here looking for the truth. I saw someone's different opinion, and came on here to politely inquire, as to what Scriptual reasoning lead them to believe what they did. I can't help it if I don't agree with your reasoning.

I don't believe that. I believe you are questioning your beliefs and that is why the LORD sent you here.

Tell, you what. If you can show me a Scripture, that says that those people can't be Saved,

I'm not claiming the blacks and Denmarkians can't be saved, but some people cannot be saved or forgiven by God.
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

I'll not be convinced short of that. It doesn't seem like to much to ask does it?

Done and done.

[handmaiden]

Re: oh....

Taking the whole Bible together, this is what I sincerley believe. . . .

I'm not at all unsure, or wavering in my own beliefs. But I am humble, and will listen. I didn't come on here looking for the truth. . . .

Tell, you what. If you can show me a Scripture, that says that those people can't be Saved, precisely, I'd believe it. . . . Sir, precisely I believe the Bible, and that all of it is true.

You have made a strong showing here, and I am impressed. I am also confused about a few things.

"Taking the whole Bible together" would indicate that you feel the the entire Bible is to be accepted, and yet I doubt that you have made allowance for many of its restrictions in your own life.

"I didn't come here looking for the truth." Well, that is interesting. The truth of the Bible is what we are all about.

You challenge, "show me a Scripture . . ." You have been shown many a scripture, and your response is to disagree and pull another scripture out of your hat to prove what you want to believe.

"I believe the Bible and that all of it is true." You believe all of it is true, but only parts of it are applicable to your life, is that it?

Listen, I mean no disrespect for the sincerity of your belief, but what you are doing is what countless people have done throughout the ages. You are fitting the Bible into the framework of your life. If you really and truly tried to use the Bible to make the framework for your life, you would be in for a surprise.

You have endeavored to teach us here and to reprove several of the brothers. Paul wrote that women were not supposed to do so. Your response to this will be something that we have heard many times before, "but that was a cultural thing."

There are many aspects of modern culture that are in direct opposition to Biblical precedent, but most people claiming to be Christians not only do not seek to correct this, in most instances they take advantage of of these cultural conditions.

Putting that argument aside, allow me to congratulate you again on some well presented points. The sheer amount of what you have written and detailed so excruciatingly is breathtaking. Like so many before you, you will always find an answer to what you want to believe that the Bible says in the Bible. In this, you are have much in common with every zealous practitioner of every religion ever invented. Yet, you lack real discernment regarding the Bible, having made it your weapon rather than making yourself its student.

Frankly, you would make an excellent lawyer. Or a Pharisee.

Sincerely Yours,

Handmaiden

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: oh....

I can't tell from your post who you are responding to, or what is your own writing. Do you need assistance with the QUOTE function?

[_quote_] thing I want to quote [_/quote_]

Remove the underscores and you get

thing I want to quote

You can even put in a person's name.

[_quote=somebody_] thing I want to quote [_/quote_]

Remove those underscores and you get

thing I want to quote

Jesus did not say that those two commandments summed up anything. He said that everything else "hangs on" those two commandments. They are the foundation upon which the Law is built.

No I understand. I made a poor choice of words. They hang on them. It is like a family tree, and they branch out.

No. All the commandments are built upon those two.

I know that there are more than Ten Commandments, but if we obey those two to the absolute we are obeying them all.

NO. You obey them all because they are how you show that you love God.

I always took it to mean that they were the reasons, for those other commandments.

Again, you are misinterpreting. You are not automatically obeying all the other commandments by loving God; rather, you are commanded to love God, and part of that is obeying all of His commandments.

Do you love God? Do you follow ALL of His commandments, or just the ones you like?

[Revelation2010]

Re: oh....

Judge not, lest ye be judged is one of the most often taken out of context passages in the entire Bible. If you continue reading Matthew 7, it is speaking about hypocritical judgment.

Christians are free to judge as long it is not hypocritically or merely by appearances.

Yes, I know this. What is right and what is wrong. You can judge if someone is a theif, but you can't judge their worth in the eyes of God. Is what I am saying.



You said:
No, but He calls people broods of vipers. He also tells a follower to not bother burying his father.

I say:
He was talking to the Pharisees. You know those that pretend to be good.

But Jesus didn't label all sinners everywhere as trash, He died for them.

What's your point on the burial thing?


You said:
Jesus tells us that
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Yes, they are not on our side. He doesn't (if they aren't in the family of God) say to fight them. He's separating us form them. Where, is the commandment to fight with them?


Luke 14 26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murder hath no eternal life abiding in him."

Yes, your Scripture says something different than mine. He was talking about compared to the love we have for God.

You said:
Jesus calls someone outside of His own race a dog. Yeah, He heals her daughter, but only after she begs.

Yes, but you are not a Jew! Your a Gentile!



Yes I did. I explained to you that it was within the eyes of God. Paul speaks often on the differences in status within this lifetime.

Women aren't allowed to speak. Slaves obey your masters.. etc.

Only in the church and, woman can come equally to the throne of God, just like men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation2010
I'm not saying that we aren't righteous, but that we aren't this way of our own fleshly accord. We were no more just than them before we were saved. It is God that justifieth.
Yes, he was manifested to take way our sins. If they needed to be taken away we already had them. That is why we pray in Jesus' name, because He justifies us so that we may go before God's throne.
But:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I will not say that I have no sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

Again, that's prior to salvation. John goes on to write in the exact same epistle that we are sin free and blood bought.

It all relates to the cast the first stone at her quote. If you are a True Christian, you are sin free. Pass me the rock.


Your a fool! Foolish and unlearned. Whether I laugh or rage, at you. I'll have no rest. I don't care what you think. I believe the Bible. Goodbye!