New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Hi everyone,

My name is Elizabeth and I have had a question that I really wanted answered, but to talk to any real Christians, one must go to one of the nasty forums where everyone is just taking shots at each other with no serious discussion going on.

Rather than bore all of you with the details of my life, I'll give you a quick rundown. I am 52, have four children ages 20-31. I am remarried to a much younger person than me, but we have been together for 10 years now and have a really great relationship. I come from a family of 8 children and parents that divorced after 37 years of marriage. I grew up between Los Angeles and a small town in Wyoming. Suffices to say that not only do I understand conservative philosoplly, I spent a great deal of my life living it.

I am not an internet troll and I am not looking for a debate. I am looking for some real answers. You see, while none of my children are believers, most of my siblings are, as are my parents. Growing up in Wyoming in a small town, I was taught the value of respecting others religious beliefs so as they might accept mine. In a small town this becomes particularly important. For instance, we have "church league" basketball. Any church that wanted to could participate and field a team of a particular age group.

So I really had it drilled into my head that it was important to accept that others have different beliefs and that does not make them a bad person.

So having said all that, here is my question: I would really be happy if the pastor was to answer this, but I am happy to get anyone's and everyone's opinion on the matter. My question is about free will. As I read the Bible, God gave everyone free will and one must choose to follow God/Christ. Yet I see a drastic effort on the part of all religions to want to legislate their religious doctrine into law, so all must obey. But if people are forced to comply, where if their free will to choose to follow God?

So I read the Bible to say that God wants everyone to spread the word of God but each person must choose to follow. And when one reads the Gospels, Christ is very clear that rich people can't get into heaven, and that believers must embrace those who don't, since they are the ones that need to find God. Jesus dines with the criminals and tax collectors and prostitutes, not pass laws against them. So I just don't understand how trying to force everyone to obey one religions doctrine under color of law, can be considered "Free Will"?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Elizabeth

[John Creeser]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

Welcome Elizabeth,

You say you are remarried, is your first husband deceased?

[Marko Loimaan-Aho]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

I am very sorry to hear your first husband died. It must be a hard time to you but fortunately somebody wanted to marry you.

I think you were not very old when you widowed, and there is this scripture especially for your situation:

1 Timothy 5:9-15

However, I wonder why you could not give your second husband any more children? You did not fill the second part of this scripture properly. Is there some reason for this?

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

My question is about free will. As I read the Bible, God gave everyone free will and one must choose to follow God/Christ.

Hello, dear friend:

To which Bible passages do you refer? Are you familiar with the following?

[John 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Romans 8:28-30 KJV] 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

[Ephesians 1:4-6 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

As for forcing people to comply, God has at times explicitly commanded as much:

[2 Chronicles 15:12-13 KJV] 12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; 13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

Hi everyone,

My name is Elizabeth and I have had a question that I really wanted answered, but to talk to any real Christians, one must go to one of the nasty forums where everyone is just taking shots at each other with no serious discussion going on.

Rather than bore all of you with the details of my life, I'll give you a quick rundown. I am 52, have four children ages 20-31. I am remarried to a much younger person than me, but we have been together for 10 years now and have a really great relationship. I come from a family of 8 children and parents that divorced after 37 years of marriage. I grew up between Los Angeles and a small town in Wyoming. Suffices to say that not only do I understand conservative philosoplly, I spent a great deal of my life living it.

I am not an internet troll and I am not looking for a debate. I am looking for some real answers. You see, while none of my children are believers, most of my siblings are, as are my parents. Growing up in Wyoming in a small town, I was taught the value of respecting others religious beliefs so as they might accept mine. In a small town this becomes particularly important. For instance, we have "church league" basketball. Any church that wanted to could participate and field a team of a particular age group.

So I really had it drilled into my head that it was important to accept that others have different beliefs and that does not make them a bad person.

So having said all that, here is my question: I would really be happy if the pastor was to answer this, but I am happy to get anyone's and everyone's opinion on the matter. My question is about free will. As I read the Bible, God gave everyone free will and one must choose to follow God/Christ. Yet I see a drastic effort on the part of all religions to want to legislate their religious doctrine into law, so all must obey. But if people are forced to comply, where if their free will to choose to follow God?

So I read the Bible to say that God wants everyone to spread the word of God but each person must choose to follow. And when one reads the Gospels, Christ is very clear that rich people can't get into heaven, and that believers must embrace those who don't, since they are the ones that need to find God. Jesus dines with the criminals and tax collectors and prostitutes, not pass laws against them. So I just don't understand how trying to force everyone to obey one religions doctrine under color of law, can be considered "Free Will"?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Elizabeth

I don't get the problem. People can exercise free will to make their own choices to disobey the laws of the land. Instituting a decent Christ loving law would not make recidivists obey these laws any more than they do now.

What does grind my gears in when people chose to be gay just to spit in Jesus' face when He makes it clear he hates them.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men , leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

YIC

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

As for forcing people to comply, God has at times explicitly commanded as much:

[2 Chronicles 15:12-13 KJV] 12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; 13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Amen, Pastor. God's Ways are the Best, truly. Elizabeth, first I'd like to say welcome to our friendly forum! You'll find no debate here, only devout and loyal followers of Christ, guaranteed.

I wonder if maybe you're confusing being forced to worship God with not allowing others to deny our freedom to worship God. For example, we have not established a law in this nation that criminalizes missing church, and yet the Holy Bible is very clear on this matter (Hebrews 10:24-25). We as a nation have not established a law that properly punishes homosexuality (homosexuals ought to meet a bloody end; Leviticus 20:13), but are forced instead to watch as the government teaches children how to be homosexual through public school education. The average homosexual man claims to have over 500 sexual conquests, and they regard children as "fun sized" receptacle for their sin deposits. This clearly goes against our freedoms, and most especially against our children's freedom to grow up in a Christian nation, to be safe from sodomy, to be safe from brainwashing, to be safe from environmentalism, to be safe from the very wrath of God (Jeremiah 10:25). Can you be more clear in what you think True Christians™ are doing to take away the free will of others?

[Attila's Wife]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

Hello Elizabeth and welcome to our friendly forums.

I would like to start out by saying that on the question of free will, I am 100% in agreement with Dr Niles here:

I don't get the problem. People can exercise free will to make their own choices to disobey the laws of the land. Instituting a decent Christ loving law would not make recidivists obey these laws any more than they do now.

After all, what would be the difference to these criminals between disobeying the current set of secular laws and disobeying a decent set of Christian laws?

In countries like my own (Britain) and other European countries (particularly France and the Scandinave lands) we are more likely to see Sharia law introduced at this time, and obviously this would present us Christians with a dilemma. Do we oppose it, on the basis that it is un-Christian, or do we obey it as instructed in Romans 13:1-2 (to name just one source)?

It is my belief that we would be obliged to obey, as God tells us to, while still working behind the scenes to get the laws changed. This would really be no more or less than what we are doing today and I view it as an example of exercising my free will.

On another note, as this is your Introductory thread, I notice that you say:

You see, while none of my children are believers, most of my siblings are, as are my parents.

But what about you, dear? What church do you go to and what is your favorite Bible verse?

With warmest wishes
AW

[Alvin Moss]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

Sister Elizabeth, I fear you are comparing apples with oranges and that is why you are confused.

Society's laws reflect the morals of society, which are influenced by God's laws, of course, but they are actually different things.

Thus, when the Lord God urges us to stone homosexuals and shows what He means by destroying... oh, say Sodom or San Francisco, He is demonstrating His wrath toward perverts. Naturally, we understand that the Lord hates homosexuals and wants them destroyed. Now, we are all products of a Christian society, one that draws it's morality from the Word, even though the Devil's people have risen considerably in recent years. It is natural that we would frame our laws to conform to the morals we received from the Lord and with which we are familiar.

Thus, when we say that homosexuals cannot offend us by being married up with each other, it is through our morality that we make these laws, not in order to conform with God, but because we believe in Him and this is what we believe.

It is the same with laws against murder, child molesting and so forth. These laws are passed because our own beliefs correspond with the Word, not to conform with the Word. Does that make sense?

Also, are you a homosexual yourself? You sound like a lesbian who is trying to make some kind of point without actually saying it.

God Bless!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

First of all, this is NOT a debate forum. We're right and you're wrong, according to Jesus and the Holy Word of God. Please read THIS thread before making an even bigger fool of yourself.

Secondly, while the internets might seem to be "free" to you, this particular corner of the internets is a privately owned Christian forum. The rights you have on this forum are listed HERE. Please contact a Pastor immediately if you feel that any of your rights have been violated.

Finally, your unsaved opinions or tantrums are not even slightly of interest to us. We follow the Holy Word of God TO THE LETTER, and make no apologies for that. One of the most important commandments in the Bible tells us to avoid unsaved scum such as yourself. You wandered in here uninvited, and unwelcome .

If you want to debate people, THIS is the place to go.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

I would like to thank everyone who responded. I found the answers to be well thought out and reasoned. It's appreciated.

Elizabeth

[Yea-tho-we-walk]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

I would like to thank everyone who responded. I found the answers to be well thought out and reasoned. It's appreciated.

Elizabeth

I'm very sorry to hear about your deceased first husband. You and your deceased first husband will meet in Heaven someday though! Your present husband will be there also! But the bad news is as soon as the three of you get together Jesus will immediately cast the three of you into hell, because Jesus isn't in to that kind of perversion. But, the good news is you WILL be a Heaven for a few minutes, so try to enjoy!

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: New "Unsaved" Have serious Question

For all of you who offered sympathy and support at the loss of my first husband, I would like to thank you for your concern, however, I never said anyone was deceased. It was a question posed by a member, not something I offered.

Elizabeth