[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Okay, here's the deal. There are three levels of "beliefs" (I can't think of another word here, so that may not be the best term) for all things Catholic. Convienently, they all start with a D.

1) Dogma;
2) Doctrine;
3) Discipline.

Dogma is the highest level. This can include such things as the Divinity of Christ, His Virgin Birth, and so on. Dogma is infallible teachings of Faith or Morals, derived from the Deposit of Faith (which is Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition). Dogmas cannot contradict previous dogmas or the Deposit of Faith.

Doctrine is the second level: this has a little more way for debate, but barely. Doctrines are not infallible teachings of the Church on faith and morals. This is indeed binding on all Catholics, but they can be altered or modified due to better understanding. For example, the view of contraception is (I think) a good example of this. It is binding, but it can be modified as we learn more about the human body. Doctrines RARELY become dogmas.

Discipline is the last thing. These are not infallible rules of behavior, binding on all Catholics while propagated, designed with the intent to keep believers "on the straight and narrow path," so to speak. Can be relaxed, altered, or abolished.

Now to answer your question: celibacy of priests and bishops belong in the discipline level. In the future, the Pope may (or may not) abolish the rule of celibacy for the priesthood. It's his choice.

Does that help at all? I'm not sure if I answered it satisfactory.

No, that doesn't help. The Pope is allowed to overturn the Bible?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The Bible is quite specific on that point.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Finally found this

[Jacob Hauty]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

@A Proud Papist: Worship God alone. Romans 1:22-25- Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Where in the bible does it say to worship Mary? Now stop acting so arrogant. Respect the True Christians™ and stop picking arguments. You're just trying to convert Christians into your cracker-eating, Mary Worshiping "religion!" If you want to condemn yourself to Hell, fine! You can watch as your body burns for eternity. You may not, however, try and drag others down with you. Get thee behind me, Satan!

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

It is a personal attack because you say "You are Catholic, therefore you cannot read the Bible." That's a logical fallacy, not to mention wrong on several accounts.

Wow, you really do have problems with reading comprehension. Perhaps you should contact Sylvan, they helped my nephew.

I said that you cannot be a catholic and read the Bible. I guess I should have worded it that you cannot be a catholic and FOLLOW the Bible, even atheists can read the Bible.

Would you like me to address each of these points? I'll be happy to.

I would like to see that.

History says otherwise, but alright. (Ignoring the Beast comment for now; I'll address it later with your specific points).

still waiting

That is not what I said, and you know it.
I said that the CDF wasn't in charge of investigating the abuse cases until 2001. Before that, the particular bishop was in charge.

Nothing about it being right prior to 2001.

Yet all the pope and his CDF do is move priests around and try and cover their tracks. Guilt by association.

Oh, and I have met many people who were molested by priests as I used to work with a mission to native Indians in Canada. It destroyed them and destroyed any chance of them ever going to heaven because they blame God for what the priests did to them.

I'm glad you can dismiss their eternal souls so easily.

Then please educate this humble sinner about the passage.

Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Lets see, a woman says bless Mary, and Jesus says no don't bless Mary, bless those that hear (read these days) the word of God and keep it.

Seriously how hard is that to understand?

Again, I may read it in the future. Time just isn't letting me, at the moment.

Okay, well I'm done with you until you either contact Sylvan or actually bother to read the thread.

[A Proud Papist]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Aww....... it's so cute when you people come here and use big words that you don't really understand.

How is what I said a personal attack?

It is a personal attack because you say "You are Catholic, therefore you cannot read the Bible." That's a logical fallacy, not to mention wrong on several accounts.

Anyone who follows the Bible cannot be a Catholic, because the Bible calls for full immersion baptism, no worshiping of mommy dearest, and no praying to saints. There's also nothing in the Bible about children under 8 getting a get out of Hell free card and nothing about Popes.

Would you like me to address each of these points? I'll be happy to.

Of course he wasn't charged, he sits in the seat of the Beast. No politician, especially in Italy, would touch him.

History says otherwise, but alright. (Ignoring the Beast comment for now; I'll address it later with your specific points).

Ah, so it was okay to molest children BEFORE 2001, well that makes it all better doesn't it.

That is not what I said, and you know it.
I said that the CDF wasn't in charge of investigating the abuse cases until 2001. Before that, the particular bishop was in charge.

Nothing about it being right prior to 2001.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suite, is it.

Then please educate this humble sinner about the passage.

Without reading it because 75 pages is "just toooooo hard".

Again, I may read it in the future. Time just isn't letting me, at the moment.

So were you lying when you said you couldn't be bothered to read the thread, or now. Not that it matters, you can just go into a dark little box on Saturday and tell some priest you lied and that makes it all better doesn't it.

Okay. Sure.

No wonder the Mob is all catholic.

Like the Chinese and Russian mafia, right?

I get your point though; the Italian and Spanish mobs are predominately Catholic. Whether or not they're good Catholics is another topic altogether.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Argumentum ad hominem.

Aww....... it's so cute when you people come here and use big words that you don't really understand.

How is what I said a personal attack? Anyone who follows the Bible cannot be a Catholic, because the Bible calls for full immersion baptism, no worshiping of mommy dearest, and no praying to saints. There's also nothing in the Bible about children under 8 getting a get out of Hell free card and nothing about Popes.

Several things: this is over a year old, and I'm sure if you go to any website, you'll notice that Pope Benedict XVI was not, in fact, in charge of the sexual abuse at that time. Sure, then-Cardinal Ratzinger was part of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith (henceforth, CDF), but that only took care of the abuse of minors (or anyone, no matter the age) only when it was within the confessional or during confession.

Of course he wasn't charged, he sits in the seat of the Beast. No politician, especially in Italy, would touch him.

Only until 2001 (I believe, if not then add or take a year) was the CDF in charge of all sexual abuse. Before that it was under the jurisdiction of the diocese's particular bishop.

Ah, so it was okay to molest children BEFORE 2001, well that makes it all better doesn't it.

I fail to see how this particular passage relates to Catholics "worshiping" Mary. Either way, praying to Saints (or Mary) is akin to you asking your father/mother/brother etc to pray for you. Would you like me to give you a passage that shows that we can pray for one another?

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suite, is it.

Again, I'm not going to outright say to you "YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT THIS!" Instead I'll go through it step by step.

Without reading it because 75 pages is "just toooooo hard".

I did, though.
Thing is, many already answered these accusations. Why not try and have more questions (of a different nature) directed at a Catholic?

So were you lying when you said you couldn't be bothered to read the thread, or now. Not that it matters, you can just go into a dark little box on Saturday and tell some priest you lied and that makes it all better doesn't it.

No wonder the Mob is all catholic.

[A Proud Papist]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

You don't follow the Bible, or else you wouldn't be Catholic.

Argumentum ad hominem.

Denial is wonderful isn't it. The pope himself has been implicated and if you don't follow the pope then you're not catholic.

Several things: this is over a year old, and I'm sure if you go to any website, you'll notice that Pope Benedict XVI was not, in fact, in charge of the sexual abuse at that time. Sure, then-Cardinal Ratzinger was part of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith (henceforth, CDF), but that only took care of the abuse of minors (or anyone, no matter the age) only when it was within the confessional or during confession.

Only until 2001 (I believe, if not then add or take a year) was the CDF in charge of all sexual abuse. Before that it was under the jurisdiction of the diocese's particular bishop.

And all of the demigods, er I mean saints. Oh and what about Mary? Jesus specifically said not to worship her.

Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

I fail to see how this particular passage relates to Catholics "worshiping" Mary. Either way, praying to Saints (or Mary) is akin to you asking your father/mother/brother etc to pray for you. Would you like me to give you a passage that shows that we can pray for one another?

So we're not wrong, we're just not right.

Again, I'm not going to outright say to you "YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT THIS!" Instead I'll go through it step by step.

So why should we bother to respond to anyone who is too lazy to read our threads. You obviously couldn't even be bothered to read the first post.

I did, though.
Thing is, many already answered these accusations. Why not try and have more questions (of a different nature) directed at a Catholic?

[Marisa L Sanchez]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dominic, I really think you should take a long hard look at yourself and the catholic church. I was brought up catholic and it's just really the first multinational of the world.

And Papa Ratzi can't really hold high his head in public afetr fail so many times to denunce the child pederasts, yeah?

I'm pretty against them really. Just false. Just a business. Just no good.

Sorry, but hey, I hope the rest of your day go great and you see the light - and it isn't in Rome...

Have nice day now!

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

What makes you think I don't? Honestly, I'm not trying to provoke by answering a question with a question, but if you go to any Catholic Mass, you'll notice nearly all of it is devoted to reading the Bible.

You don't follow the Bible, or else you wouldn't be Catholic. Nothing in the catholic religion comes from the Bible other than a few names.

I don't follow those people. Furthermore, statistics have shown that this scandal within the Church is much less prevalent than in, say, public schools. The CC just gets more flack for it. Why? Who knows, maybe because it's easier to target an organization than individual groups.

Denial is wonderful isn't it. The pope himself has been implicated and if you don't follow the pope then you're not catholic.

Catholics worship one God - the Holy Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one God. That makes us monotheists, and thus not pagans.

And all of the demigods, er I mean saints. Oh and what about Mary? Jesus specifically said not to worship her.

Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

I'm not going to say you're wrong - at least I'm not going to outright say that. Instead, I'm here to: 1) practice my own apologetic skills; and 2) inform those about the real beliefs of Catholicism and not just hear-say.

So we're not wrong, we're just not right.

I'm not willing to read 100+ pages of posts. Granted, I may in the future. But even then, I can't reply to every single objection within this thread. That would be too time consuming, I think we'd both agree. Therefore, I'd like to (at least) have questions start anew, and I can try and answer each one at my own pace.

So why should we bother to respond to anyone who is too lazy to read our threads. You obviously couldn't even be bothered to read the first post.

[A Proud Papist]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Okay, now off to answering questions. Please give me a while to answer each question.

Why don't you read and follow the Bible?

What makes you think I don't? Honestly, I'm not trying to provoke by answering a question with a question, but if you go to any Catholic Mass, you'll notice nearly all of it is devoted to reading the Bible.

Why do you follow perverts who think it's okay to molest little boys?

I don't follow those people. Furthermore, statistics have shown that this scandal within the Church is much less prevalent than in, say, public schools. The CC just gets more flack for it. Why? Who knows, maybe because it's easier to target an organization than individual groups.

Why do you call yourself christian when catholicism is really nothing more than the pagan gods with Biblical draping?

Catholics worship one God - the Holy Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one God. That makes us monotheists, and thus not pagans.

Why do you think you're the first pagan catholic to show up here and try and tell us we're wrong?

I'm not going to say you're wrong - at least I'm not going to outright say that. Instead, I'm here to: 1) practice my own apologetic skills; and 2) inform those about the real beliefs of Catholicism and not just hear-say.

Why can't you be bothered to read the entire thread first?

I'm not willing to read 100+ pages of posts. Granted, I may in the future. But even then, I can't reply to every single objection within this thread. That would be too time consuming, I think we'd both agree. Therefore, I'd like to (at least) have questions start anew, and I can try and answer each one at my own pace.

Sure why not? I have never gotten a decent answer to this question. Why do you catlickers insist on defying the Bible on the issue of marriage for bishops?

Okay, here's the deal. There are three levels of "beliefs" (I can't think of another word here, so that may not be the best term) for all things Catholic. Convienently, they all start with a D.

1) Dogma;
2) Doctrine;
3) Discipline.

Dogma is the highest level. This can include such things as the Divinity of Christ, His Virgin Birth, and so on. Dogma is infallible teachings of Faith or Morals, derived from the Deposit of Faith (which is Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition). Dogmas cannot contradict previous dogmas or the Deposit of Faith.

Doctrine is the second level: this has a little more way for debate, but barely. Doctrines are not infallible teachings of the Church on faith and morals. This is indeed binding on all Catholics, but they can be altered or modified due to better understanding. For example, the view of contraception is (I think) a good example of this. It is binding, but it can be modified as we learn more about the human body. Doctrines RARELY become dogmas.

Discipline is the last thing. These are not infallible rules of behavior, binding on all Catholics while propagated, designed with the intent to keep believers "on the straight and narrow path," so to speak. Can be relaxed, altered, or abolished.

Now to answer your question: celibacy of priests and bishops belong in the discipline level. In the future, the Pope may (or may not) abolish the rule of celibacy for the priesthood. It's his choice.

Does that help at all? I'm not sure if I answered it satisfactory.

[A Proud Papist]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dominic, you need to introduce yourself properly on the introduction thread first. Then after we will explain to you what is so wrong with your cult.

Jack

I'm sorry; I didn't realize.

Oh, and my name isn't Dominic. Dominius vobiscum is Latin for "[May] God be with you."

APP

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Hello everyone.
This is my first post, so forgive me if I speak in a formal tone.
my name, A Proud Papist, pretty much describes me. However, with how people here feel about Catholics, this may infuriate some. This isn't my intent. My intent with my name is to tell people how I am. Honesty is the best policy.

Now, I am not here to convert you guys. Nor should you think you'll succeed in converting me. I think our respective beliefs are set in stone.

I am here, though, to answer individual questions as soon as I possibly can about Catholicism. Whether you ask with tongue-in-cheek, with sincere curiosity, or out of malice, I will try and answer it with the best of my ability.

Dominus vobiscum.

APP

Dominic, you need to introduce yourself properly on the introduction thread first. Then after we will explain to you what is so wrong with your cult.

Jack

[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

...However, with how people here feel about Catholics, this may infuriate some...

Nope, no fury, just sadness and confusion that someone smart enough to post on the internet with a computer still hasn't recognized the RCC to be the blasphemous cesspit of lecherous pedophiles that it is.

Anyways, welcome!

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Hello everyone.
This is my first post, so forgive me if I speak in a formal tone.
my name, A Proud Papist, pretty much describes me. However, with how people here feel about Catholics, this may infuriate some. This isn't my intent. My intent with my name is to tell people how I am. Honesty is the best policy.

Now, I am not here to convert you guys. Nor should you think you'll succeed in converting me. I think our respective beliefs are set in stone.

I am here, though, to answer individual questions as soon as I possibly can about Catholicism. Whether you ask with tongue-in-cheek, with sincere curiosity, or out of malice, I will try and answer it with the best of my ability.

Dominus vobiscum.

APP

Sure why not? I have never gotten a decent answer to this question. Why do you catlickers insist on defying the Bible on the issue of marriage for bishops?

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Paul warned us about you.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Hello everyone.
This is my first post, so forgive me if I speak in a formal tone.
my name, A Proud Papist, pretty much describes me. However, with how people here feel about Catholics, this may infuriate some. This isn't my intent. My intent with my name is to tell people how I am. Honesty is the best policy.

Now, I am not here to convert you guys. Nor should you think you'll succeed in converting me. I think our respective beliefs are set in stone.

I am here, though, to answer individual questions as soon as I possibly can about Catholicism. Whether you ask with tongue-in-cheek, with sincere curiosity, or out of malice, I will try and answer it with the best of my ability.

<<witches cures removed>>

Why don't you read and follow the Bible? Why do you follow perverts who think it's okay to molest little boys? Why do you call yourself christian when catholicism is really nothing more than the pagan gods with Biblical draping? Why do you think you're the first pagan catholic to show up here and try and tell us we're wrong? Why can't you be bothered to read the entire thread first?