[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

we are all sinners no one claims to be perfect.

It will take more than that to justify the mass rape of children. You make it sound as if the priests were spitting on the sidewalk.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The Church is not perfect but what they teach is!

Even when what they teach goes directly against scripture?

I knew you catlickers were delusional, but I had no idea of the depth of it.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Re: Debunking the 'Mary worship' myth

again ignorance got the better of you, the three children saw her she spoke to them she proficised and the profecies came true you dont beleive me go check any reliable source does not have to be catholic.

Sorry, I'd rather go by God's Word than the stories of three easily misled kids.

why did God only speak to Moses why dident he he speak to everyone?
the "dancing sun" was seen by people 40km away. don't you think God has the ability to reveal unto some and hide from others the Blessed Virgin has Gods Grace all her work is done through God.
see how pointless your arguments are all you like to do is question a mircle and try to find an excuse not to beleive open your heart and seek the truth!

So we're supposed to pray to God through Mary, and God performs His miracles through Mary. I'm surprised He was able to get anything done before He created her!

[James Dewitt]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The Church is not perfect but what they teach is!
its called the Judus syndrome ok Christ had Judus Escariot as one of his deciples what do you think the reason was? to show to us that within the churchs ranks you will always have people that will do the wrong thing, we are all sinners no one claims to be perfect. if we put your church under the microscope like what was done to the catholic church i bet you we will find how imperfect it is too. so what you are saying is very naive.

Tell me Mr Catlik, how much money has your church spent in the last twenty years protecting pedophile priest and paying off the children they molested?
I have come to know each and every one of our Pastors and Reverends, each and every one of our members, and there is not a sinner in the lot, nary a one!
1st John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

on Peter as The Churchs head.

Tertullian

Funny you should mention Tertullian. Did you ever wonder why he's not "Saint" Tertullian? It's because Tertullian rejected the church of Rome later in his life, saying it was full of heretics, and became a Montanist, a church which Tertullian said were the TRUE successors of the Apostles. So whether or not Tertullian saw Peter as head of the church, he did not consider your church to be the true one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

on Peter being in Rome!

Irenaeus

I'm pretty sure the only person who mentioned anything about Peter never going to Rome was that atheist girl, Bogdana Alkeav. I don't see the big deal on this. Irenaeus also says the church was founded by Peter AND Paul, but whatever. Let's say it's true. It doesn't take away from the fact that Irenaeus was against current, modern day Catholic practices such as infant baptism. So, presumably, Irenaeus does not believe the modern Catholic Church are the successors of Peter. Probably at that point in history, there was still a modicum of holiness within the Roman church. It would not be until later centuries that they completely sold out to the pagans.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Debunking the 'Mary worship' myth

But the Bible tells us that Mary is 'most blessed', in Luke 1:48.

I don't know what Bible you are reading, but mine says,

Luke 1: 48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Not "most blessed." Luke 11:28 tells us Mary was blessed, not because she was Jesus' mother, but because she heard the word of God and kept it. Anyone who does so can be as blessed as Mary.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Debunking the 'Mary worship' myth

Now lets look at one the of most receded prayers that there is, the Hail Mary, now our Lady appeared at Fatima in 1917 infront of a 70,000 strong crowd inwhich the mircle of the "dancing sun" appeared, the crowd did not only have devouted christians but also athiest, agnostics, Muslims and many other beleifts all had the same accounts on what happened and how there cloths were totaly dry after the danceing sun mirlce despite everyone being soaking wet prior because it was an extreamly rainy day.

CITATION NEEDED

When the our Blessed Mother appeard she proficied certian proficeies inwhich most have come true and some still yet to come. she also asked us the pray the rosary which has the Hail Mary in it. She said to Lucia one of the three children she appeared to that it is God's will that nations look toward her in help for all the nations not hers! can't you see by you denying our Blessed Mother you are really denying Jesus open your eyes she helped in raising up our Lord Jesus Christ our God, how much more can she help out in our up bringing and guidence.

Those 'apparitions' are NOT Mary


PLEASE understand that I write this as a loving warning to all devout Catholics out there! I am not interested in the "weak" ones that will email me hatefilled, vulgar email packed with death threats. This warning goes out to those that have a heart for their God and a desire to please Him. There is an attack on the Catholic child that is directly from hell itself. You are being targeted by Satan as prey for the flames of hell. One way in particular is his direct attack on the blessed Mother of Jesus Christ who is BLESSED FOREVER above all women and there is no woman blessed as she! ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL HER BLESSED!

• Luke 1:48, "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

Think of that for a moment. She is blessed, she is Mary, she is the woman God chose to raise His Son on Earth. Now... Read below.. would Mary the real Mother of Jesus speak these words?
In 1917 the "demon" calling itself Mary spoke these words...

• "Only I can help you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God." (Read it here for yourself... http://fatima.org/story2.html)

These words are in direct conflict with the Word of God that was spoken out of the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself!

• John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

If this demon was really Mary the Mother of Jesus she would NOT be calling her Son and Saviour Jesus Christ a liar! By saying that "Mary" is the "Only one that can help you" is actually saying quite bluntly that Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World cannot and will not help you! this is blatant antichristian teaching. This is just one aspect to what the demon os preaching. the same demon is doing it again in "Medjugorje" today as well. Take a look at what the demon says, and then take a look at what the Bible says. You will be genuinley shocked.

(Follow the link to read more )

Now there is countless of healing done by saints to the faithful and some turned faithful all through out the years with proper documentation, how does one think saints are made saints through an opinion poll? of course not!. There documented evedence of healing which doctors can no explain such as cancers totally disappearing with out any traces.

There are claims of miraculous healings from almost all religions, and definitely most Christian denominations...

How much more have you increased your chances of your prayer being heard by asking our Blessed Mother to pray that the ultimate, the true definiation of love Jesus Christ would hear your prayer!

Are you suggesting that Mary is more merciful than Jesus?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Some people are VERY confused about what we catholics do. We do NOT pray to Mary and we do not pray to the saints. We talk to them, just as you would talk to your brothers and sisters right here on earth.

You don't pray to saints, you say?

(the following are from Catholic websites)
Catholic Prayers associated with the Saints.


Saints Prayers


Prayers to Saints: to God's Most Gracious Advocates


Praying to the Saints

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Debunking the 'Mary worship' myth

ok obviously you are kind of ignorant, so answer to me this. 1917 Fatima Portugal the Blessed Virgin appeared. 70,000 saw the mircle of the sun alot of them were athiest the blind could see, lame could walk all is documented.
"Columnist Avelino de Almeida of O Século (Portugal's most influential newspaper, which was pro-government in policy and avowedly anti-clerical),[2] reported the following: "Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws - the sun 'danced' according to the typical expression of the people."[7] Eye specialist Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, writing for the newspaper Ordem reported "The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceeding fast and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat".[8] The special reporter for the 17 October 1917 edition of the Lisbon daily, O Dia, reported the following, "...the silver sun, enveloped in the same gauzy purple light was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds...The light turned a beautiful blue, as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral, and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands...people wept and prayed with uncovered heads, in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they"


thats it im not going to bother anymore you people are just to ignorant and stubborn to ope your hearts to the truth!

The Hoax of Our Lady of Fatima

Roman Catholics claim that a supernatural event occurred in 1917 in which the "Blessed Virgin Mary" appeared repeatedly to 3 little children in Fatima, Portugal. Supposedly, the Virgin Mary gave a message to the 3 little children. The Message of Fatima consists of an alleged number of precise predictions, requests, warnings and promises concerning the Faith and the world which were conveyed by the Blessed Virgin Mary to three shepherd children--Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco--in a series of apparitions at Fatima, Portugal from May to October 1917. An "apparition" means "the unexpected or unusual appearance of a ghostly figure."The Rosary is Blasphemy!
Why Catholics Say We should Believe the Message of Fatima
The following claims were obtained from www.fatima.org:
1. Supposedly, the events of Fatima were confirmed by an unprecedented public miracle, the Miracle of the Sun, which occurred at precisely the moment Lucia said it would. More than 70,000 people, including Masons, communists and atheists, reportedly saw the sun, seemingly contrary to all cosmic laws, twirl in the sky, throw off colors and descend to earth. The event was reported in newspapers around the world, including the New York Times.
However, the miraculous events which the onlookers reportedly saw were not contrary to nature at all. As a matter of fact, they were VERY NORMAL astronomical events. Please read the following simple explanation for the "miracle" of Fatima from the National UFO Center...

"MASSIVE CORONAL MASS EJECTION FROM SUN

A gigantic coronal mass ejection (CME) occurred on May 13, 2000. Probably
the largest of the year was recorded by NASA. Every eleven years our sun
goes through a period of solar storms and these storms have been with us for
centuries of recorded history. Solar flares emit high-speed particles that
cause the Northern Lights or Aurora Borealis. Radiation from the solar
flares can give passengers in aircraft or UFOs a dose of radiation equivalent
to a medical X-ray. Severe weather on Earth, volcanoes and earthquakes may
be all tied to this activity on the sun. Satellites, communications, silicon
circuitry, portable phones and alternating current outlets can all be
effected. If your appliances start acting up it may be the result of these
solar storms. Even severe headaches may be tied to the sun's activity. We
are watching to see if the UFO activity is influenced by the sun's heavy
solar activity and initial indications are that reports have slowed in recent
weeks.

Pope John Paul's visit to Fatima, Portugal was punctuated by eruptions on the
sun, marking the 83rd anniversary of miracle of Fatima that occurred on May
13, 1917. Witnesses at Fatima claimed to have seen the sun dance in the
sky." Some claim this was an early UFO sighting, others claim it may have
been unusual solar activity. The Vatican revealed the Third Secret that the
Virgin Mary the mother of Christ is said to have told three children when she
appeared at Fatima. The first two secrets foretold the end or World War I
and the start of World War II along with the rise and fall of Communism.
The Third Secret foretold the shooting of Pope John Paul II several years ago."

You can also read about Coronal Mass Ejections (CME's) on NASA's website. I trust NASA more than the Catholic church. The Roman Catholic Church has a bad reputation for making things up.
2. Another reason why Catholics claim that we should believe the Message of Fatima is because all of the Popes since the Fatima Miracle have recognized that the Message is authentic. Several Popes have gone to Fatima in person, including Paul VI, John Paul I and John Paul II. John Paul II said at Fatima in 1982 that "the Message of Fatima imposes an obligation on the Church."
Realistically, just because the Popes recognize the alleged Message of Our Lady of Fatima as "authentic" is certainly NO PROOF at all. Just because the Pope says something doesn't make it so. Catholics foolishly elevate their Popes to the idolatrous level of God's Vicar (representative) on earth. There is NO such teaching found in the Bible. God has no official representative upon the earth. All believers are God's representatives (2nd Corinthians 5:20).
3. Another reason why Catholics claim that we should believe the Message of Fatima is because of other alleged miracles have been performed by God authenticating the Fatima Message as coming from Him, not only at the time of the Miracle of the Sun, October 13, 1917, but down the years to the present day, reported miracles of conversions and cures which science seemingly cannot explain by natural means.
However, the Bible clearly teaches that Satan can also perform miracles, signs, and wonders (Revelation 13:14). We must be extremely careful about attributing anything to God simply because it is a miracle. Pharaoh's wicked magicians mimicked the Miracles which God performed at the hand of Moses. Satan is deceiving the world with his miracles, signs, wonders, and damnable heresies.
In addition, Charismatic such as Oral Roberts have been known to scam the masses with genuine miracles and rigged healing services (an excellent book to read on this is The Charismatic Movement by Dr. John R. Rice).
4. Another reason why Catholics claim that we should believe the Message of Fatima is because the Message of Fatima supposedly accurately predicted world events, which proves that it is a true prophecy.
The TRUTH is that any idiot saw World Wars coming. I predict that a future war is coming! Wow!, I must be a prophet. Why are the predictions so vague?
Also, the events that Our Lady of Fatima supposedly predicted could have easily been known in advance by Vatican insiders (friends of the richest and most powerful people). For anyone who understands the truth about history, they know that it was Wall Street bankers behind the diabolical Federal Reserve System, WW1, the Great Depression, WW2, etc. It was Wall Street that created Communism. It's A Conspiracy Too Monstrous To Conceive. IBM manufactured the devices used to stamp serial numbers on holocaust victims. Henry Ford was a person friend of Adolph Hitler. I. G. Farben (a German company) was a conglomerate of around 200 companies (many of which were U.S. companies) which manufactured the Zyklon B gas used to murder holocaust victims. The Vatican in Roman was involved in the brutal murdering of millions of innocent people in the holocaust. Did you know that the new Pope, Benedict XVI was a former Hitler Youth? It's true!
The prediction that Russia would rise to a world-power is NOT surprising in the least when one understands the deliberate creation of Communism.
The Message of the Blessed Virgin of Fatima is nothing more than a ridiculous and evil invention of the Roman catholic Church. There is NO PROOF of any cosmic miracle, other than than testimonies of people who THOUGHT they saw a miracle. What they saw in 1917 was an astronomical event which occurs repeatedly every 11 years. The Vatican used the event to dupe the ignorant masses who thought they had seen a "miracle" of nature. I'm sure that there have been people throughout history who were conned by some smart guy who predicted a solar eclipse, calling it a "miracle." The Catholic Church thrives on the ignorance of the masses. Most people don't have enough sense to question the "traditions" and "claims" of the Catholic Church, they just blindly believe the Vatican because they package everything in appealing wrappers. The Catholic religion is all about "eye candy." They offer a structured, non-spirit based system, from the cradle to the casket, step-by-step religion. Just add participation, no faith required.
I am NOT trying to be unkind. On the contrary, I care about people very much, which is why I am willing to risk being unpopular in exchange for giving you the TRUTH of God's Word. The Bible does NOT deal in traditions, it is the Word of God. You have been lied to by the Vatican for long enough!

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." -Colossians 2:8

The Message and miracle of Fatima is a lie, a hoax. The Catholic Church propagates to the world that the Blessed Virgin of Fatima gave the following requests to the 3 children:

"WHAT DOES THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA REQUEST?

At Fatima Our Lady said that God wished to establish in the world devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our Lady said that many souls would be saved from Hell and the annihilation of nations averted if, in time, devotion to Her Immaculate Heart were established principally by these two means:

1) the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope together with the world's bishops in a solemn public ceremony, and

(2) the practice or receiving Holy Communion (and other specific devotions of about 1/2 hour in duration) in reparation for the sins committed against the Blessed Virgin Mary, on the first Saturdays of five consecutive months--a practice known to Catholics as "the First Saturday" devotion.

WHAT DOES THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA WARN?

It warns that if the requests of Our Lady of Fatima for the Consecration of Russia and the First Saturday devotion are not honored, the Church will be persecuted, there will be other major wars, the Holy Father will have much to suffer and various nations will be annihilated. Many nations will be enslaved by Russian militant atheists. Most important, many souls will be lost.

WHAT DOES THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA PROMISE?

The Message of Fatima promises that if the requests of Our Lady of Fatima are carried out "My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will Consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to mankind."

This stuff is better than science fiction...as a matter of FACT, it is science fiction! Let me quote a phrase from the above article again...

"Our Lady said that many souls would be saved from Hell and the annihilation of nations averted if, in time, devotion to Her Immaculate Heart were established..."

Can anyone show me that in the Bible? No, you CANNOT! John 14:6 tells us that the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6

Catholicism is a lie! The Message of Fatima is Satanic, totally contrary to the Word of God! NO AMOUNT OF DEVOTION to Mary can save a person from hell. Where in the world did Catholics ever get the crazy idea that Mary is to be recognized at all. Read A Woman Rides the Beast. Roman Catholicism has it's origins in a heathen Babylonian religion which worshipped the "Queen of Heaven" (Jeremiah 44:19,25)

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger" -Jeremiah 7:18

Unbelievably, the Catholic Church addresses the "Blessed Virgin Mary" as the "Queen of Heaven." Where do you think they got that term from? It came from ancient Babylon. Please don't believe the lies of the Catholic religion any more, turn to Jesus Christ in faith and He WILL forgive you and cleanse your sins away with His precious blood. Ye Must Be Born Again!

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Debunking the 'Mary worship' myth

again ignorance got the better of you, the three children saw her she spoke to them she proficised and the profecies came true you dont beleive me go check any reliable source does not have to be catholic.

Ok, I'll take you up on that challenge

Illuminating the Fatima "Miracle of the Sun"

It's hard to argue with the facts of this event. The day was predicted in newspapers by a ten-year-old girl, and this is thoroughly proven. Tens of thousands of people personally witnessed exactly what the prediction said would happen. The sun's behavior was clearly unique, and couldn't have been mistaken for some chance atmospheric oddity. You add all this together, and the only reasonable conclusion is that Lucia Santos' vision and prediction was a genuine miracle.
Unless, of course, you set a reasonable standard for evidence, and start looking for things like alternate explanations. Let's point our skeptical eye at some of these details one by one, and see if they hold up to scrutiny. I'll start with the children's reports of six months of religious apparitions. These were three kids, ages 7 to 10, and came back home each night with wild tales. Is this surprising? Is the miraculous appearance of the Virgin Mary really the most probable explanation for stories told by small kids? The two youngest, Lucia's cousins, both died of influenza within a couple of years, but Lucia lived to the age of 97 and clung to her stories her entire life. Investigator Joe Nickell reports that Lucia's own mother said that she was "Nothing but a fake who is leading half the world astray." Friar Mario de Oliveira, who knew her well, described her as living in a "delirious world of infantile fantasies" and suffering from "religious hallucinations". There are alternate explanations for the children's stories, imagination and boredom being chief among them.
So onto the specific date of October 13, 1917, so widely publicized in print that tens of thousands of people appeared. Clearly you're not going to make a pilgrimage like that unless you're pretty religious and pretty confident that you're going to witness a miracle. So, we have a crowd preconditioned to expect to see something. Newspaper accounts estimated between 30,000 and 100,000 worshipers gathered at Cova da Iria. However, a number of photographs of the crowd do exist, and though it does look like several thousand to me, I certainly wouldn't go as high as thirty. Either the photographers chose not to show the largest part of the crowds, which seems an odd choice; or the newspapers reported exaggerated numbers. Interestingly, if you do a Google image search you'll find lots of pictures of huge crowds, many of which show a perfectly bright and sunny day. It is always reported to have been raining quite heavily during the event, and I only ever found a single picture that showed a crowd with umbrellas. So I think a snippet of skepticism is warranted when viewing these large crowd photos with thousands of faces staring heavenward.
How impressive was the sun's display? An old black and white photograph of the actual sun miracle event shows a lot of dark rain clouds behind some trees and the sun poking through. There is certainly nothing in the photograph that looks unusual, but of course a photograph is static. Whatever the crowd saw was not interesting enough to be noticeable in a photograph. A lot of skeptical explanations have been put forward: Dust in the atmosphere causing the sun to appear in different colors, a sundog or parhelion formed by ice crystals, a rainbow, and observations that the descriptions don't match where the sun should have been in the sky at that time. It's also been pointed out that observatories around the world reported nothing unusual that day, so whatever it was had to have been a localized phenomenon. Personally I gravitate toward an even simpler explanation, fueled by having spent many happy hours as a child laying on my back and staring directly at the sun. When you do that, you can't see a round, static disk. Your eyes and pupils spazz out, and "dancing" is certainly one way to describe what you see. Spinning would be another valid way to perceive it. If there are tens of thousands of people fully expecting to see something amazing, and someone shouts "Hey look at the sun," guess what, you've now got tens of thousands of people seeing something amazing in the sun.
There's an experiment you can do. Stand on the sidewalk and point up toward the top of a building. People walking by will look up too. Some of them will pause. If another person looks at them, they might point up as well. Anything anyone sees will be assumed to be what you were pointing at. Go to Starbucks, have a coffee, and watch the fun. To me it's not only plausible, it's probable that if a single person at Cova da Iria told that desperate crowd that the sun looked strange, you'd have had ten thousand people agreeing "Yeah, it did look a little funky, kind of jumped around and danced when I tried to look at it," or whatever they thought they saw. And this would have happened on October 12, June 1, or any other day you choose.
Most of what's popularly reported about the sun incident, such as the colors and the spinning, comes from Father John de Marchi, a Catholic priest who spent years interviewing eyewitnesses to build evidence supporting the miraculous event. But more objective assessments of the eyewitness accounts have found very little evidence of a single shared experience. Author Kevin McClure, who also compiled eyewitness accounts, reported that he had "never seen such a collection of contradictory accounts in any of the research I have done in the past 10 years." If you were there, as a devout Catholic (otherwise you wouldn't be there), you fully believed in a miracle happening that day (otherwise you wouldn't be there), whether you personally saw anything or not you'd support the majority opinion, and probably go to your grave insisting that a miracle happened there. There's no surprise that Father de Marchi was able to form a consensus description of a spinning color wheel of a sun, and no need for any actual event to justify his consensus.
Father de Marchi says the sun was a spinning color wheel that day, which cannot be reconciled with the photograph. I say there was nothing special in the sky that day, which reconciles exactly with the photograph.
Now let's go back to those three secrets that the Virgin Mary supposedly revealed to Lucia. The "miracle of the sun" was not one of the three secrets, in fact Lucia wouldn't tell anyone what the secrets were until many years later, when she was a nun, and was asked to write them down by the Bishop of Leiria in 1941. She would only write the first two. The first secret was a vision of Hell, not really a prediction about anything, nor much of a secret. The second secret was a prediction that World War I would end, and that World War II would start if God continued to be offended by man's crimes. This wasn't terribly surprising either, since World War II had already begun when she wrote it. Not the kind of prediction that blows my mind. It took two more years before the Bishop of Leiria finally got Lucia to write down the third secret, and when she did, she sealed it in an envelope marked "Do not open until 1960", because she felt that nobody would understand it until then. When the Vatican revealed its contents in 1990, Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) warned that it was anticlimactic, saying "No great mystery is revealed; nor is the future unveiled," and even speculated that Lucia's vision may have simply been conjured from religious texts. It described a vision full of religious imagery: Angels with swords, masses of corpses on a mountainside, Bishops and Priests being killed by soldiers, souls ascending to heaven. The takeaway from Lucia's three secrets is that in no way were they miraculous or otherwise unexplainable predictions.
The Roman Catholic Church will only declare a miracle after all other possible explanations have been ruled out, leaving divine intervention as the only possible rationalization. Since the Fátima "Miracle of the Sun" is easily explained, and even falsified by photographic evidence, it's probably time for the Catholics to reexamine their criteria.

Funny, the only sources I found that agreed with you were...CATHOLIC!



(read the link, too, there's a GREAT discussion that follows the article )

[The Cantabrian]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Really? When you talk to your brother or sister, do you drop to your knees with your hands folded in front of you? Do you say, "Hey, Mary! Could you do me a favor and pray to Jesus for me? Thanks, much appreciated"?

You can't do something then try to explain it away by redefining it as something else.

Yes, we drop to our knees but that is to show reverence and respect. It is no different from curtseying to royalty, etc. And yes, we ask respectfully for the Blessed Virgin and the saints to intercede with Jesus on our behalf. Once again, this is no different from you asking your pastor or a Christian friend to pray for you.

And what does the Bible say about "talking with the dead?"


Deuteronomy 18:10-11 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The Blessed Virgin is not dead. Like all the saints she is alive with Christ.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Yes, we drop to our knees but that is to show reverence and respect. It is no different from curtseying to royalty, etc.

I have never curtseyed in front of royalty, and if I ever got the chance, I damn sure would not.

Acts 10:25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

The Blessed Virgin is not dead. Like all the saints she is alive with Christ.

If she's not dead, do you deny she will be resurrected on the Last Day?

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

whos prayers would Our Lord Jesus first listen too his Mothers or yours?

I have no idea. If only there was something He said on the subject we could turn to for guidance, some saying, like, let me think...
Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

It appears that Jesus specifically said He would rather listen to us than to Mary. Case closed.

*sighs* so why does Paul say "I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me" Rom. 15:30.

Why does Paul not say "I urge you, brothers, pray to Mary, that's definitely a good idea and not blasphemous at all?" Why does it not say that anywhere in the Bible?

Some people are VERY confused about what we catholics do.

Mmmhmm. Couldn't put it better myself. You are very confused because God has sent you strong delusion.

ok obviously you are kind of ignorant, so answer to me this. 1917 Fatima Portugal the Blessed Virgin appeared. 70,000 saw the mircle of the sun...

There's a very simple explanation for that. It begins with an S, ends with an N, and the letters in between in reverse order are A, T, and A.

The Church is not perfect but what they teach is!

Even when you change your minds? Are the old teachings you've abandoned as perfect as the new ones you put in their place?

its called the Judus syndrome ok Christ had Judus Escariot as one of his deciples what do you think the reason was? to show to us that within the churchs ranks you will always have people that will do the wrong thing, we are all sinners no one claims to be perfect.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Whenever I get tempted to bugger a choirboy, I simply pray to God, and the Holy Spirit delivers me from temptation. Maybe your paedophile priests are praying to Mary to stop them from raping children, but their prayers don't seem to be having much effect. Funny, that...

[Judethaddeus]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

<SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">To be truly a “bible church” (notice no one ever says "food restaurant", "book library", "exercise gymnasium", or "car highway"!), the church would have to adhere to everything that is in the New Testament. Accordingly, here is a checklist of things that are in the New Testament that all bible churches should answer yes to:
12. Are the church's decisions ratified in heaven as well as on earth (Matthew 18:18)?
13. Is the Mother of Jesus considered to be the most blessed Woman, and do they call her blessed (Luke 1:42-48)?
14. Does the church teach that the church itself (rather than the Bible) is the pillar and bulwark of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)
15. Does the church teach that the whore of Babylon is a "great city" where Jesus Christ was crucified? (Revelation 11:8 and Revelation 17:18).
16. Does the Church teach that celibacy is a good thing? (Matthew 9:12, Luke 18:29-30, 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27, 1 Corinthians 7:32-38,Revelation 14:3-5).
17. Does the Church teach that life begins at conception? (Deuteronomy 30:19, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13, Luke 1:43-44,Luke 23: 2).
18. Does the Church teach that contraception is intrinsically evil? (Genesis 1:28, Psalm 127:3-5, Genesis 38:8-10).
19. Does the Church teach that divorce and remarriage is adulterous? (Matthew 5:3, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)

Catholicbible101

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

To be truly a “bible church” (notice no one ever says "food restaurant", "book library", "exercise gymnasium", or "car highway"!), the church would have to adhere to everything that is in the New Testament. Accordingly, here is a checklist of things that are in the New Testament that all bible churches should answer yes to:
12. Are the church's decisions ratified in heaven as well as on earth (Matthew 18:18)?

Yes.

13. Is the Mother of Jesus considered to be the most blessed Woman, and do they call her blessed (Luke 1:42-48)?

We teach what Jesus Himself said in Luke 11:28:
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

14. Does the church teach that the church itself (rather than the Bible) is the pillar and bulwark of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)

Where does 1 Timothy 3:15 do down the Bible, or set up an opposition between Church and Bible? We believe that our church is a pillar of truth because
we obey the Holy Scripture to the word, so issues of church vs Bible don't come up. See 2 Timothy 3:16, John 5:39 and Matthew 4:4 for more information.

15. Does the church teach that the whore of Babylon is a "great city" where Jesus Christ was crucified? (Revelation 11:8 and Revelation 17:18).

Yes.

16. Does the Church teach that celibacy is a good thing? (Matthew 9:12

Has nothing to do with celibacy and everything to do with preaching the Word to unsaved scum like you. You're just throwing in unrelated verses in an attempt to boost your non-existent argument.

Luke 18:29-30

That's about self-sacrifice in general. It's not specifically pro-celibacy. Or are you also against parents and houses? When's the last time you spoke to your parents? If you haven't given up contact with your parents for the kingdom of God's sake, I don't see what right you have to demand that others should be celibate.

1 Corinthians 7: 25-27

I have no commandment of the Lord... Ohh, really convincing, isn't it? Would you care to show me the commandment of the Lord that supports celibacy? Oh, wait, there isn't one. And how convenient that you'd snip that quote off at verse 27, to avoid the follow-up:
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned.

1 Corinthians 7:32-38

Again, "So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well" - somehow, reading this personal opinion hasn't convinced me that marriage is that evil yet. The real kicker in 1 Corinthians 7 (aside from the "let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband", which you seem suspiciously keen to avoid) is in verse 7: "every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that". We teach that celibacy is right for some and not for others, what more do you want?

Revelation 14:3-5.

Yes, there are 144,000 firstfruits. That has no relevance to the millions of other Christians who will never be among those 144,000.
By the way, what do you think of, for instance, Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Or does Paul now outrank Jesus and God in your theology? Seeing as you're so keen on Paul, I think he should have the last word on the subject:
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

That would appear to be a HOLY PAULINE SMACKDOWN on your false doctrine of celibacy right there.

17. Does the Church teach that life begins at conception? (Deuteronomy 30:19, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13, Luke 1:43-44,Luke 23: 2).

Yes. Yes we do. Unlike the ungodly anti-life heretic Jerome, who your cult worships as a saint and "Doctor of the Church" despite the fact that he came out in favour of abortion. (See his Epistle 121:4.) Or Pope Innocent III, who ruled that abortion was not considered homicide until around eighty days had passed.

18. Does the Church teach that contraception is intrinsically evil? (Genesis 1:28, Psalm 127:3-5, Genesis 38:8-10).

Yes, we do. What about yours? Do Catholics think that a marriage is consummated if the woman is using a diaphragm? What do you think of coitus interruptus or the rhythm method?

19. Does the Church teach that divorce and remarriage is adulterous? (Matthew 5:3, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)

Yes, indeed we do, saving for the cause of fornication. Why did you miss that bit out?