[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Ummm, are you suggesting that light doesn't reflect off the ground?

Spoiler: Everything that we can see reflects light. The reflection of light is how we see.

Precisely. If light is affected by gravity as much as it would need to be for the Flat Earth theory to be correct, it wouldn't be reflected by the Earth, and everything we see would be a heavily warped view of what it actually is, when we can tell it isn't by using our other senses.

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Look if you believe that the "earth is round" or whatever, and you aren't going to change that belief, you aint no Christian! So go away!

[ayerea]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Gravity bends light, right? Ask any Physicists this Snotty, they'll confirm this. So if the earth was round the light would just bend around the earth and we would have daylight even in the middle of the night.

Ummm. no Light bends around super massive objects, like our sun for example, something that weighs billions of times of the weight of the earth can hardly affect lights path at all.
Also, you want proof of a round earth, get on a Airplane. And fly to singapore then to europe then back to wherever the hell you live.
Then explain how you went around the back of the earth where the sun is at night.
Really, you cannot see any amount of logic in this.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

I've seen plenty of photos of it though.

There's a big difference between seeing a picture that someone else claims to have taken and seeing a picture that you know you took, and i'm afraid that you've been hoodwinked. It is well established that the Moon landings were faked by the US government.

Lyndon Johnson (when he was Vice President) cooked the whole plot up to justify the expenditures needed to close the missile gap with the Godless communist Soviets (nuclear missiles, unlike Moonshots, are all too real, as demonstrated by the book of Revelation). You know, say we're spending tens of billions of dollars on space capsules when we're really buying nukes. The Soviets knew, but they couldn't expose the lie, since that would have exposed the lies they told their people about their space program (e.g., the myth of Sputnik), too.

I'm told from some Landoverites highly placed in the Bush administration that President Bush wanted to come out and tell the truth, but wasn't able to do so, since he needs to ensure the funds to fight the Iraqis and Iranians, and without the NASA subterfuge, couldn't get them through a Democratic Congress that thinks scoring political points is more important than defending our nation. That might change if Mike Huckabee is elected President, since he's the only serious candidate who has the moxy to throw the BS flag on evolution and other scientific nonsense, but keeping our children safe has to come first. Don't you agree?

If you could point me in the direction of this research, from a non-biased source, it would be much appreciated.

Here's what the NASA scientists say, and I presume you agree with them. One side of the Moon always faces Earth (you can verify this by looking at the Moon on different days throughout the month--it's always the same face. If the Earth is really a sphere that rotates once every (roughly) 24 hours, then an observer on the Moon would be able to see the entire surface of the Earth in that 24 hour period (I was only joking about it taking a whole month--no way would Jesus spend an entire month with the Devil).

As you know, I have a very different view of NASA's scientific reliability. but they are good people doing God's work, and America's, so God bless them.

Referring back a few pages to my point about arc seconds, gravity just clearly doesn't have enough effect on light to make the world appear round if it is flat. We can observe that from the Earth's surface.

What we observe makes the Earth look round to you, just like what you observe tells you that gravity is a force that acts on objects. But Einstein showed that gravity isn't a force, it's simply the way objects move through curved spacetimes.

Bottom line, what we observe simply isn't a reliable guide for establishing scientific truths.

Also, if light is bent towards the Earth, how can we see the ground, surely the light wouldn't be reflected from it?

It depends on how far the light has to travel. The effect is pretty small at small distances. If you have a good background in Reimannian differential geometry, there's a long section on this in Dr. Ville's book explaining this. Frankly, I find the mathematics a bit challenging, so I probably can't do it justice if I try to work out the equations here. I was more on the biology side of the Creation Science program at Landover Christian University.

Yes gravity bends light, but not only enough to change it by a few degree seconds, not nearly enough to bend light enough so you cannot see very far.

But the proof is that the Earth appears to be round when we know that it is really flat.

Ummm. no Light bends around super massive objects, like our sun for example, something that weighs billions of times of the weight of the earth can hardly affect lights path at all.

You aren't considering the fact that light is massless, so it takes less gravity to pull light.

Also, you want proof of a round earth, get on a Airplane. And fly to singapore then to europe then back to wherever the hell you live.
Then explain how you went around the back of the earth where the sun is at night.

You apparently haven't read the other posts in this thread. We've moved well beyond airplane analogies and are now discussing astronomy. When it's night in one spot on the Earth, it's daytime in another. If you fly from one area to another, you can't expect the local time to stay constant. What's so hard to understand about that?

Here's another proof, this time from Newton. Assume that the Moon is in a perfectly circular orbit around a spherical Earth (that's not quite NASA's picture, but it is close enough for government work). At all times, the motion of the Moon occurs exactly parallel to a line tangent to the circular orbit:

If the Moon is always moving in a straight line (and trust me, that's what the physicists say), then how can it move in a circle?

Stranger and Sacha and Seeker (whom I hope will soon be Finder), I always like to look for at least a little common ground when we debate controversial issues. It might be easier to convince you that the Bible is correct first, which would resolve the flat Earth question at the same time. Would you at least agree that the Bible clearly states that the Earth is, in fact, flat?

[ayerea]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Oh yeah, the bible clearly states that its flat. But dose physical evidence support this? Or dose your own personal experience support this idea? Try it, go walk, in any direction, then when you get to water, swim across it (assuming you can swim the length of the ocean) and keep walking when you get to land again, assuming you stay in a completely straight line you would end up right back where you left. heck, if you walked in a generally straight line, you would end up at the coast of the US eventually. How can you do that if the earth is flat?

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Oh yeah, the bible clearly states that its flat.

Well, that's good enough for me.

But dose physical evidence support this? Or dose your own personal experience support this idea?

My own personal experience does support this idea, in two ways: First, when I look around me, the Earth doesn't appear to be curved--if you subtract out the hills and mountains, it looks flat. How can the Earth be flat everywhere, yet round when you add it all together? Second, and more importantly, God told me that the Earth is flat. Who am I to argue with Him?

Try it, go walk, in any direction, then when you get to water, swim across it (assuming you can swim the length of the ocean) and keep walking when you get to land again, assuming you stay in a completely straight line you would end up right back where you left.

That's what, a quadruple iron man? Maybe we should stick with the airplane analogies after all. You think you're traversing a sphere, but you are really going around in a circle. God just nudges you gently to keep you from going near the edge, and voila!, you think you've gone a full circle.

if you walked in a generally straight line, you would end up at the coast of the US eventually. How can you do that if the earth is flat?

If the Earth were round, you'd have to walk in a curved line to cross the US. The very fact that you can do it while you are walking in a straight line is proof that the Earth is flat.

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

There's a big difference between seeing a picture that someone else claims to have taken and seeing a picture that you know you took, and i'm afraid that you've been hoodwinked. It is well established that the Moon landings were faked by the US government.

Lyndon Johnson (when he was Vice President) cooked the whole plot up to justify the expenditures needed to close the missile gap with the Godless communist Soviets (nuclear missiles, unlike Moonshots, are all too real, as demonstrated by the book of Revelation). You know, say we're spending tens of billions of dollars on space capsules when we're really buying nukes. The Soviets knew, but they couldn't expose the lie, since that would have exposed the lies they told their people about their space program (e.g., the myth of Sputnik), too.

I'm told from some Landoverites highly placed in the Bush administration that President Bush wanted to come out and tell the truth, but wasn't able to do so, since he needs to ensure the funds to fight the Iraqis and Iranians, and without the NASA subterfuge, couldn't get them through a Democratic Congress that thinks scoring political points is more important than defending our nation. That might change if Mike Huckabee is elected President, since he's the only serious candidate who has the moxy to throw the BS flag on evolution and other scientific nonsense, but keeping our children safe has to come first. Don't you agree?

I would agree that keeping our children safe is indeed a priority. However, the science behind the Round Earth and evolution theories has provided more advantages to us than any flat earth or creation theory. It has bought about new technologies and new medicine, but I have yet to see creation science take its place in any kind of technology.
If Huckabee did abolish the teaching of evolution and round earth, you can kiss goodbye to genetically modified foods, aviation, space travel and lots of other things.
The fact is that the Bible has no use when it comes to science simply because there is no way to use it. It doesn't help us progress intelectually and it doesn't help develop anything new, which is what science is all about.

What we observe makes the Earth look round to you, just like what you observe tells you that gravity is a force that acts on objects. But Einstein showed that gravity isn't a force, it's simply the way objects move through curved spacetimes.

Bottom line, what we observe simply isn't a reliable guide for establishing scientific truths.

If what we observe isn't a reliable guide for establishing truths, then what is?
This would make logic the only way of knowing anything. By this, the only thing we/I could ever know is 'Cogito ergo sum', and what use is that?

It depends on how far the light has to travel. The effect is pretty small at small distances. If you have a good background in Reimannian differential geometry, there's a long section on this in Dr. Ville's book explaining this. Frankly, I find the mathematics a bit challenging, so I probably can't do it justice if I try to work out the equations here. I was more on the biology side of the Creation Science program at Landover Christian University.

Either way, every object has a gravitational pull relatice to its mass. If light is only bent by 1.75 arc seconds by the sun, imagine how little it is bent by the Earth?

You apparently haven't read the other posts in this thread. We've moved well beyond airplane analogies and are now discussing astronomy. When it's night in one spot on the Earth, it's daytime in another. If you fly from one area to another, you can't expect the local time to stay constant. What's so hard to understand about that?

This is irrelevant to travel. If I called someone in America right now, let's say in the EST time zone, they'd tell me it was 2:20pm and it was light. Now, here, in the UK (GMT), it is 7:20pm and it is dark.

Here's another proof, this time from Newton. Assume that the Moon is in a perfectly circular orbit around a spherical Earth (that's not quite NASA's picture, but it is close enough for government work). At all times, the motion of the Moon occurs exactly parallel to a line tangent to the circular orbit:

If the Moon is always moving in a straight line (and trust me, that's what the physicists say), then how can it move in a circle?

You've just said that we are assuming the moon moves in a circular orbit. To assume that and then to say that it is moving in a line parallel to the tangent is a logical contradiction and as such, your argument does not follow.

Stranger and Sacha and Seeker (whom I hope will soon be Finder), I always like to look for at least a little common ground when we debate controversial issues. It might be easier to convince you that the Bible is correct first, which would resolve the flat Earth question at the same time. Would you at least agree that the Bible clearly states that the Earth is, in fact, flat?

If you can find a quote that says explicity that the earth is flat, then sure.

But I think that the harder part would be to convince anyone that the Bible contains nothing but truths. Good luck with that, I can't wait to hear the answer to the the question that has divided humanity for millenia from you.

[Dr. Warren Wierdsbe]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Well this is a whole lot of nonsense. Of course the earth is flat. The Bible says so. But let's not forget that it is also stationary. Nothing makes me want to cuss the devil more than some Hell-bound, Anti-God, Anti-Bible, Evolutionist Homer to tell me that the Earth revolves around the Sun, when we know for FACT that the Earth does not move.

Now, you can split this out if you like, but I think it's part-and-parcel with the false lies being spread about the Earth being round (of all things-common sense tells us it's Bumpy, but round?). The earth is flat and does not move!

See, I could easily quote chapter and verse until I am blue in the face, but a brother in Christ has done it all before, and Praise God, I don't think he missed a trick!

http://www.fixedearth.com/

The only real problem is that this brother has, perhaps unwittingly, posted a graphic of a round earth, but it is my belief that he only did that because it is a true representation of the lying, Satanic toy globe levitated by magnets.

God bless all those who believe the Bible (KJV 1611).

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

However, the science behind the Round Earth and evolution theories has provided more advantages to us than any flat earth or creation theory. It has bought about new technologies and new medicine, but I have yet to see creation science take its place in any kind of technology.

If Huckabee did abolish the teaching of evolution and round earth, you can kiss goodbye to genetically modified foods, aviation, space travel and lots of other things.

Wow. Nothing in the manufacture of food has the slightest thing to do with the shape of the Earth, unless you're claiming that Dolly the sheep was "cloned" on the "International Space Station" (anyway, genetic engineering is another hoax, but that's a topic for a different thread).

Aviation, as I already explained, works as if the Earth were round, but that is the result of an optical illusion created by gravity coupled with God making sure that planes do not fly close to the edge. It appears to a pilot that he is circumnavigating a globe, when he is actually circumscribing a flat Earth. Maybe it would help to read some Scripture on this:

The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. Ecclesiastes 1:6

Space travel is a hoax, since there is a firmament that separates Earth from Heaven. That's the real reason the two shuttle crews died--the pilots were showing off flying too close to the firmament, struck it by mistake, and then plummetted back to Earth.

The fact is that the Bible has no use when it comes to science simply because there is no way to use it. It doesn't help us progress intelectually and it doesn't help develop anything new, which is what science is all about.

Let's see, the Bible taught us good practices of agricultural land management (the sabbatical year raises yields over the whole cycle), how to avoid diseases by staying away from the wrong kinds of food (Leviticus 11), the proper proportions for seagoing vessels (Genesis 6), how to cure leprosy (Leviticus 14), plate tectonics (Genesis 10), the limits of building construction (Genesis 11), principles of animal husbandry (Genesis 30), the cause of birth defects (Exodus 4), how to avoid diseases generally (Exodus 15), how the digestive tracts of cattle work (Leviticus 11), how to cure snakebite (Numbers 21), how birds raise their young (Deuteronomy 32). And that's just from the Five Books of Moses. You don't see that stuff in Gilgamesh or the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

As for progress today:

That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which it may be said, “See, this is new”? It has already been in ancient times before us. There is no remembrance of former things, Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come By those who will come after. Ecclesiastes 1:9-11

Progress of the spirit is what counts, not how many things we accumulate in our lives. Fancier new gadgets are all vanities that are nothing compared to the ancient and enduring Truth of the Bible. The healing power of Jesus beats the healing power of all your fancy hospitals any day of the week, and there are several experiments that have proved it.

We've demonstrated pretty convincingly in here that much of science is devoted to attacking Christianity. I'm sorry you fell for their brainwashing.

If what we observe isn't a reliable guide for establishing truths, then what is?

Do I even need to answer this one?

Do you go out and personally duplicate every so-called scientific experiment? No, I didn't think so. You take the word of a scientist who wrote it down. Well, I have a personal relationship with the greatest scientist ever, and He wrote down all of the important parts for me several thousand years ago. He did it for you, too, if only you will open your heart.

This would make logic the only way of knowing anything. By this, the only thing we/I could ever know is 'Cogito ergo sum', and what use is that?

Don't try to pin those Catholic philosophical notions on me, I am a Christian, not a Catholic. If it's summarized in a Latin phrase, you can pretty much know that it's wrong. Anyway, you seem to be saying that we should ignore logic and accept our own personal impressions as fact. Again, I would point you to General Relativity, which is completely counterintuitive.

Either way, every object has a gravitational pull relatice to its mass. If light is only bent by 1.75 arc seconds by the sun, imagine how little it is bent by the Earth?

Obviously, the Sun has far less mass than the Earth does. Which makes sense, since the Sun, like the Moon, is far smaller than the Earth is.

You've just said that we are assuming the moon moves in a circular orbit. To assume that and then to say that it is moving in a line parallel to the tangent is a logical contradiction and as such, your argument does not follow.

Yes, I said that you believe that the Moon moves in a circular orbit around the Earth. That is not what I believe. I was just trying to show the absurd contortions that physicists and mathematicians have to go to to make their observations fit with their round Earth hypothesis. Truly a square peg in a round hole phenomenon.

But I think that the harder part would be to convince anyone that the Bible contains nothing but truths. Good luck with that, I can't wait to hear the answer to the the question that has divided humanity for millenia from you.

Just because I am in the minority doesn't mean that I am wrong. The majority will still be a majority in Hell, but True Christians(TM) wont' be a minority in Heaven. Praise God. Anyway, my goal is not to convince anyone. My only goals are (a) to parry the vicious attacks on Christians by athiests who clothe themselves in the piety of science the way the Pope wraps himself in furs and dresses and (b) to make the Word of God available. It is really not my concern whether you accept the Gospel.

God bless all those who believe the Bible (KJV 1611).

And God bless you, Brother Bonsaikc!

[chowdahead]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

If the earth is flat, how can i jump on a Plane and fly either east or west in a straight line and still end up in the same place?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

If the earth is flat, how can i jump on a Plane and fly either east or west in a straight line and still end up in the same place?

The earth is flat like a coin friend. You don’t see the edges because you are too close to it when you go from the earth’s “head” to its’ “tail”.

[behemoth]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So what about Geraldine Mock, the first women that flew around the world? Or Captain James Gallagher, did they just magically fly to the edge of the world and poof they were on the otherside? Oh ****! They must have. Man it makes me sad, that there is still primitive pieces of **** like you lurking on this planet. And Americans wounder why they hated. Oh, some day I hope to rip out your eyes, cut off your hands, tongue, feet, and watch you at a freak show, as thats what all of you degenerates are, freaks. God does not listen to you, no matter how hard you pray to it, it will never hear you, your prayers will never be answered. How long have all of you been praying to it to destroy Canada? Has it? HAS IT? HAS IT? Well you wouldn't know as you retards can't read a map. Some day you'll realize how much your hated, and when that day comes, I can't wait to shovel **** in your faces. I will live a long, happy, productive life, were as all you shall forever be hated. By everything.

Time to wake up and die.

[spongeboy]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

The earth is flat like a coin friend. You don’t see the edges because you are too close to it when you go from the earth’s “head” to its’ “tail”.

Coins don't have 4 corners.

And I have seen the actual curvature of the earth myself. How do you explain the curve?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Coins don't have 4 corners.

And I have seen the actual curvature of the earth myself. How do you explain the curve?

We see what Jesus wants us to see. Like when Jesus shows you wetbacks water in the desert; sometimes it's there, and sometimes you just end up with a mouthful of sand.

You need to stop throwing a tantrum about this and go read your Bible. If you renounce satan it'll do you wonders.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

I have seen the actual curvature of the earth myself. How do you explain the curve?

So what about Geraldine Mock, the first women that flew around the world?

There is a thread in the Landover Forums where we discuss all of this in great detail. It's called Flat Earth? Hell Yes! You might try reading it before you ask questions that we have already answered.