[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Your posts are such random streams of (un-/sub-)consciousness that I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to prove. Do you? I was just providing what you asked for in your post written at 11.42. If you go back and read it, you asked:



To which the answer was yes.

You obviously did not read the entire post, which seems a bit silly. Why would I want you to post an image of someone in a Bauhaus shirt for no reason? If you had read the entire post, which was not the least bit random, you would know that I was suggesting evidence you could use to prove these "points" of yours; that Goths are murders, drug addicts, etc., An image of a person in a Bauhaus shirt that has no evidence of those things in it, and is not linked to such evidence, is not proving anything.

[Attila's Wife]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

So you're showing me a picture of a random person in a Bauhaus shirt. What is supposed to be being proven here?

Your posts are such random streams of (un-/sub-)consciousness that I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to prove. Do you? I was just providing what you asked for in your post written at 11.42. If you go back and read it, you asked:

Can you provide an unphotoshopped raw image of a person in a Bauhaus (this is an ex. There are at least 1,000 Goth bands to choose from) t-shirt?

To which the answer was yes.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Now if there are any other opinions you would like me to disprove, just let me know.

"USA – 105 Year old Minnesota United Church burned to the ground in a hate crime against Christianity by three sick Goth teens on the birthday of Varg Vikernes, a black metal musician now serving time in prison in Norway for murdering a band mate and burning several churches. Vikernes has inspired dozens of copycat church burnings around the world."

Black Metal is not Goth. Black Metal fans are not Goth unless they also listen to Goth Rock. Are you calling them Goth or are you qouting an article?

"USA – Ten killed in Red Lake High School massacre by Goth Nazi Jeffrey Weise."

I have read the articles on this case. No where in any of them does it mention the word Goth or what music this kid listened to. As I pointed out earlier, this was committed by a Native American on a Native American reservation, and the victims were other Native Americans. All of whom practiced a mixture of Catholicism with Native American rituals. This had nothing to do with Goths.

Also, had I not looked these things up, I would not even know they really happened, seeing as you provided no news paper articles or anything as sources.

"USA – Goth Ben W. Fawley, "

"self-described "Goth/skater from the 1980s." "

Do you have any evidence that him calling himself Goth was not an empty or misguided claim? Do you have any evidence that he in fact listened to Goth Rock? Many people, teens and even older, call themselves Goth when they do not listen to Goth Rock and do not know what Goth actually is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Taylor_Behl

The only mention of the word Goth is that he "self-described Goth." Sounds more like another ignorant perswon giving a scene he is not a part of a bad name.

" David Rodriguez,"

articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-11-28/news/0511280226_1_satanic-ritual-rodriguez-home-david-rodriguez

No mention anywhere of the word Goth, or of any bands he listened to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Dyleski

Only mention of the word Gothic. No mentions of the word Goth. And there is no specification about what these "Gothic" symbols were. Did the judge mean pentagrams? Ankhs? These would suggest he was into the occult, not necessarily the Goth music scene. I highly doubt what is meant by "Gothic symbols" is the logo for Goth bands, they would probably have just mentioned the bands he was into if this was the case.


"Prosecutor Harold Jewett said Dyleski identified with Gothic symbols and art that depicted violence"

You have failed to prove that any of these people listened to Goth Rock, bands that sound like Bauhaus/The Banshees/Sisters of Mercy. You have failed to prove that any of these people were actually Goths.

The website you linked is not a reliable source. Whoever wrote the article did not research the subject well, which often happens in the media. They care more about sensationalizing something, more about ratings and making a big story, than they care about the truth.

That article talks about Columbine and other shootings having to do with the Goth subculture, then goes on to talk about the Goth subculture itself and when it started, while leaving out the names of the bands who started it. It then goes on to say this

"The term “Goth” refers to all categories of Gothics, from Emo ‘Goths’ to black metal ‘Goths’ to vampire ‘Goths; from thrasher ‘Goths’ to punk ‘Goths’ to industrial ‘Goths.’ “Goth” is just a word the media uses to group a certain type of people together. The Goth culture includes Emos/ punks/ Wiccan witches/ self-abusers/ thrashers/ grungers/ heavy metallers, et cetera. This includes the Marilyn Manson, AC/DC, Smashing Pumpkins, Van Halen and Ozzy Osbourne crowd as well."

Showing that proper research was not done, or the reporter did the research, but just left out the names of the actual Goth bands because had they added them, they could not have made it look like Marilyn Manson and Black Metal fans have any connection to the Goth scene.

This also looks like the same "article" that is posted on GodhatesGoth.com, which was created by your church. So basically you're showing me a bunch of supposedly "accurate" resources, all written by members of your church. The same article that I, and others, have been trying to tell you is incorrect.

From Wikipedia

"According to music journalist Simon Reynolds, standard musical fixtures of gothic rock include "scything guitar patterns, high-pitched Joy Division basslines that often usurped the melodic role [and] beats that were either hypnotically dirgelike or 'tribal'".[5] Reynolds described the vocal style as consisting of "deep, droning alloys of Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen".[5] Siouxsie and the Banshees tended to play the flanging guitar effect, producing a brittle, cold and harsh sound that contrasted with their psychedelic rock predecessors.[6] Several acts used drum machines that do not stress the back beat in the rhythm.[7]"

None of that describes Marilyn Manson or the Black Metal genre.

Taken from this site http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm


"
Goth is an alternative subculture; it is both a style of music and a fashion, like Punk. People who listen to the music don't necessarily dress in the style, and people who look like goths don't necessarily like the music either - a lot of metal fans have adopted the goth look, making for a great deal of confusion


However, on the rare occasion that someone looks like a goth and likes goth music, chances are they're actually a goth."

From the Rules for the Gothic Rock forum on Vampirefreaks.com

1. The discussion of gothic metal is a big no, no. Gothic metal is a subgenre of metal, not gothic rock or deathrock. If you're unsure if the band you want to mention is goth, refer to the list of bands below.

http://vampirefreaks.com/forum/comment.php?entry=533103

"Do you want some more?"

How can I want more when you did not provide me with ANY proof that fans of GOTH ROCK were responsible?

Mostly tl;dr as per usual, but as to the above, well yes, of course, but why?

Here he or she is, in all its glory. The rest of you may want to look away now, as it's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping a moderator will be along to remove this foul image shortly.



The picture appears to have been taken in a doctor's surgery.

So you're showing me a picture of a random person in a Bauhaus shirt. What is supposed to be being proven here? I see no one being murdered, no drugs, no way to identify who this Goth is, no article posted with this image saying this Goth has committed any crime, no profile for this person being posted showing they have admitted to any crime.

[Attila's Wife]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Can you provide an unphotoshopped raw image of a person in a Bauhaus (this is an ex. There are at least 1,000 Goth bands to choose from) t-shirt?

Mostly tl;dr as per usual, but as to the above, well yes, of course, but why?

Here he or she is, in all its glory. The rest of you may want to look away now, as it's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping a moderator will be along to remove this foul image shortly.



The picture appears to have been taken in a doctor's surgery.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Blah, blah, blah........

Goth crimes:


USA – 105 Year old Minnesota United Church burned to the ground in a hate crime against Christianity by three sick Goth teens on the birthday of Varg Vikernes, a black metal musician now serving time in prison in Norway for murdering a band mate and burning several churches. Vikernes has inspired dozens of copycat church burnings around the world.

USA – Goth Ben W. Fawley, age 38, told Richmond, Virginia police that he killed Virginia Commonwealth University freshman, Taylor Behl, age 17 while having “rough sex.” Though 38, Fawley looked 17 and made it a point to dress like a 17 or 18-year-old Goth kid.

USA – Ten killed in Red Lake High School massacre by Goth Nazi Jeffrey Weise.

Goth David Rodriguez, 18, and a companion abducts 2 children in order to perform satanic ritual, allegedly to get his girlfriend back. Erika Castillo, 6, and her older brother, Oscar, were snatched outside a Little Village library on Friday. Rodriguez planned to carve a pentagram in the girl’s chest.
USA – California, Goth Scott Dyleski, age 16, arrested for the brutal bludgeoning murder of Pamela Vitale, age 52. Vitale was the wife of well-known defense attorney and legal analyst for various cable news outlets, Daniel Horowitz


Do you want some more?

http://conservativecritic.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/the-newtown-connecticut-murders-and-the-goth-connection/

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Yes it does if you listen to it at work.



By your own admission most goths live in sin - i.e hellbound



Who is dead. Jesus died temporarily and was ressurected. The Bible (KJV 1611) tells us this:

Romans 14:9

For to this ende Christ both died, and rose, and reuiued, that hee might be Lord both of the dead and liuing.

By the way, I am a teacher. Jesus was a teacher as well as a carpenter.

John 3:2

The same came to Iesus by night, and said vnto him, Rabbi, wee know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can doe these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him

It's not my fault if you are incapable of multi-tasking. And being a fan of something does not mean you listen to it 24/7 anyway. Like many in the Goth scene, I am a fashion designer. I can work while I listen to music. I'm sorry if you can't do that.

You can live with a boyfriend or girlfriend and not have sex with them. Many women were fostered with their fiancee's family in the Medieval era for years before marriage and sex. This CAN be done today if people prefer to wait until marriage. I also said that they live with their boyfriend/girlfriend OR husband/wife and that many also live on their own or with roommates. Most decent people do not have sex with their roommates.

And we weren't talking about whether or not Goths were going to hell. I was replying to you saying Goths are unemployable and not productive members of society. I was pointing out that this is not the case, most Goths are employed or run their own businesses, and are successful enough to not live in their parent's basements.

The King James version of the bible was mistranslated. The bible is also not proven fact. Science knows, no one can live forever, and no one can be brought back to life literally. Jesus was a man who lived centuries ago, died centuries ago, and cannot possibly be alive today.

Where do you teach? You don't need to give me the name of the school, if you feel threatened by me knowing that. Considering your opinion about Goths, I can see this as being a possibility. But what subject do you teach? And is it at an elementary school? A high school? Is this a Christian, private, or public school?

Proof from an official source that goths are drug addicted murdering scum:

http://christopedia.atwiki.com/page/Goths

Christopedia? Seriously? And who wrote this official source? Someone from your church? That is not an official source. This was obviously written by your church. Putting up a website stating your unsubstantiated opinion is not an "official source" nor is it "proof."

Can you provide an unphotoshopped raw image of a person in a Bauhaus (this is an ex. There are at least 1,000 Goth bands to choose from) t-shirt?

A video shot at a Goth club night (where they play Goth bands) where someone is doing drugs or murdering someone?

A newspaper article expressing one of the following events

1. A "Goth" club being raided for drugs during an actual Goth night. (Most clubs being promoted as "Goth clubs" have non-Goth theme nights as well)

2. A murder case, where it actually states the perpetrator ends a Goth club night or is a fan of a Goth band (MM is not a Goth band).

Video or photographic evidence of someone in a Goth band shirt being arrested for drugs (it doesn't matter where they were at the time of arrest if they are clearly wearing a Goth band shirt) or murder.

You could provide me with the Facebook, Vampirefreaks, etc., page of someone who has pictures wearing Goth band shirts, has posted about going to Goth concerts/nights, has Goth bands on their profile, who has made a status admitting they do drugs.

You could provide me with the a link to someone's police records, or a screen shot of it, as well as a link to this person's profile on some website so I can see if they are Goth and not just some random person you choose to claim is Goth.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Total drivel.

Proof from an official source that goths are drug addicted murdering scum:

http://christopedia.atwiki.com/page/Goths

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Being a fan of music (of any kind) does not make you unproductive.

Yes it does if you listen to it at work.

Most Goths are employed or have/run their own businesses, and live on their own or at least with a boyfriend or girlfriend, husband or wife, or roommate/housemate just like anyone else. Again, please stop making unfair judgements without any evidence or proof to support such accusations.

By your own admission most goths live in sin - i.e hellbound

How is worshiping a dead man productive?

Who is dead. Jesus died temporarily and was ressurected. The Bible (KJV 1611) tells us this:

Romans 14:9

For to this ende Christ both died, and rose, and reuiued, that hee might be Lord both of the dead and liuing.

By the way, I am a teacher. Jesus was a teacher as well as a carpenter.

John 3:2

The same came to Iesus by night, and said vnto him, Rabbi, wee know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can doe these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Jesus is not dead. Haven't you heard of His resurrection? It's pretty well-known.



I'm a carpenter. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

Of course Jesus is dead. No one can live forever, and no one can be resurrected. Zombies, vampires, etc., do not exist. Unlike some people (not naming any names here), I can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, fiction and fact.

And who are you a carpenter for? What have you made? What were they for? Do you only provide your services to companies who follow the bible to the letter? Do you only provide your services to churches who follow the bible to the letter? Do you only provide your services to people who follow the bible to the letter? Do you work with anyone else when you provide these services? If your boss sends you to work without another person, who happens to not follow the bible to the letter, do you refuse to work with them? How does that go over?

What about your fellow church goers? What do they all do for a living?

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

How is worshiping a dead man productive?

Jesus is not dead. Haven't you heard of His resurrection? It's pretty well-known.

Also, tell me, what type of job do you have that does not compromise your beliefs? I find it hard to believe there are so many jobs that do not go against something in the bible.

I'm a carpenter. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

If you are right then A. Prove it. B. Use evidence that actually has to ......More drunken paddy wittering.

Accept it, paddy, goths' are not productive members of society. They never have, nor will they ever, contribute anything palpable to society. Mostly they are just sad, unemployable sacks of lard.

Now, instead of supporting these dregs of society and bog trotting go and learn how Jesus wants to fill you with His conditional Love.

For once in your life do something productive.

Being a fan of music (of any kind) does not make you unproductive.


Most Goths are employed or have/run their own businesses, and live on their own or at least with a boyfriend or girlfriend, husband or wife, or roommate/housemate just like anyone else. Again, please stop making unfair judgements without any evidence or proof to support such accusations.

How is worshiping a dead man productive? How does that contribute anything to society? Are you saving the economy? Are you providing jobs for hard-working individuals who are looking for anything they can get right now? Are you keeping illegal immigrants out of the country? Have you managed to get Obama impeached? Have you done anything to improve the education system? Have you cured the world of disease? Have you ended world hunger? Have you provided homes for the homeless?

Also, tell me, what type of job do you have that does not compromise your beliefs? I find it hard to believe there are so many jobs that do not go against something in the bible.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

If you are right then A. Prove it. B. Use evidence that actually has to ......More drunken paddy wittering.

Accept it, paddy, goths' are not productive members of society. They never have, nor will they ever, contribute anything palpable to society. Mostly they are just sad, unemployable sacks of lard.

Now, instead of supporting these dregs of society and bog trotting go and learn how Jesus wants to fill you with His conditional Love.

For once in your life do something productive.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Get over it already, you're wrong, we're right, bygones be bygones?

How about you tell us about your favorite piece of Scripture

It can be a whole chapter if you like, I know it's hard to narrow it down to a single verse

God Bless
DAM

If you are right then A. Prove it. B. Use evidence that actually has to deal with Goth.

"

So in short you agree with God that He hates goths.

"

I didn't rant in the least, and I said nothing of the sort.

"A goth is a goth because she listens to [insert name of satanic pop group]."

No one ever mentioned any "pop groups" that I know of. And the fact is a Goth is a fan of aficionado of Goth Rock. Funny, how even the dictionary says this is the case, even Wikipedia will tell you what Goth Rock yes, and yet you still think there is any denying the truth.

"Why are they satanic? Usually it's because they say they are."

Give me an example of when Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Rosetta Stone, Lestat, Arts of Erebus, etc., have ever said "We are Satanic" or "We worship Satan." Please quote them on this.

"Why is this rubbish? Because a person is not defined by the music they listen to but by what they do. The goth does not understand this."

Goth is not a definition of who you are, it is a term used to describe fans of a type of music. Listening to one type of music does not define anyone except a poseur, as of course there is more to a person than the music you listen to. It is a term used the same way as Metalhead or Rivethead, only for Goth instead of Metal or Industrial. But people who have never been Goth just can't seem to understand such simple logic. I'm not sure why. Saying you're tall, Caucasian, of Irish descent, etc., doesn't describe or define everything about you. They are labels to describe one aspect of you. If that is easy to understand, it makes no sense that using Goth to describe one thing about a person is hard to understand.

"Now there are many people who look like goths, act like goths and so on who listen to Beethoven."

Do you have a point? Goths can listen to multiple things, and someone can wear similar fashion to what is worn in the Goth scene without being a fan of the music. But you cannot be a Goth without listening to Goth music, anymore than you can be a Metalhead without listening to Metal music.

"However Beethoven is not on the list of acceptable pop groups."

If you are trying to imply that being a fan of Goth music/being a Goth means you can only listen to Goth music, no wonder you cannot understand. This is ridiculous logic, and no Goth has ever claimed you can't listen to other genres of music.

"Similarly in the case of stupid made up "religions" generally less than 50 or 100 years old"

This is one of the reasons I am not Wicca, and really do not care for Wicca. However, all religions were "made up" by someone at one time or another, or they would not exist at all. But personally, I would not follow a religion that is only 100 years old.

"Druidism, about which virtually nothing is known because it's been extinct for centuries if not millennia."

Plenty is known about Druidism. Just because there are a bunch of idiots running around believing the scam that Wicca is an ancient religion passed down in secret does not mean there was nothing that was passed down without written word. Fairy tales were passed down for centuries, by bards or story tellers, before anyone decided to write them down. Many things are known about ancient religions and people's because there is a little thing called archeology. Ever heard of it? Also, it is incorrect that nothing was written down considering the Druids or old Celtic faith. Brehon Law was written down.

"They don't know that because they do not read The Bible, except backwards before burning it. "

Again you are making unfair accusations using evidence that has nothing to do with Goths. Black Metal is not Goth. I am not making an unfair accusation here. Your church very clearly used Varg and other members of the Black Metal seen as evidence that Goths burn bibles and churches. If you have evidence showing that Goths do this as well, please provide it.

"they declare "o goth does not do that" meaning "I don't do that and if I haven't heard about it it doesn't happen or if it does it's no true gothtard.""

Just like you insist that because something happens in two clubs you worked at in one city, it happens everywhere and there can be no Goth clubs or scenes where it does not happen?

If you can provide us with evidence that actual Goths do the things you claim, it would be rather impossible for me to deny that it does happen. Your church has not claimed it only happens in select areas, you claim it's ALL Goths. Well, I certainly know I don't do those things and the majority of the people who go to the club do not either. So it's obviously not ALL Goths. I know this for a fact. Are there some that do it? Probably. Is it most Goths? Not from what I have seen. The real Goth fans aren't known for those things and most of them show obvious disgust or disappointment if they find out their favourite Goth singer has even over-dosed on prescription meds. I don't see how you can expect me to believe Goths do these things you say, some of which are ridiculous accusations that only an insane person would be capable of, when the only evidence I have seen your church provide is evidence of people who are not Goth doing these things. It's not evidence of Goths doing something if they aren't Goths.


The Columbine kids were not fans of Goth Rock; they were not Goths.

Virginia Tech articles don't even mention Goth, Metal, or even Rock music. The man claimed to be like Jesus and basically that he was doing good work killing people who basically sinned.

Red Lake is a Native American reservation, where they practice Catholicism mixed with Native American rituals. I thought you considered that deserving of death, and that anyone who kills people like that are doing your god's work?

It looks to me like you just grabbed a bunch of random names of school shootings, and used them without even reading the articles.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Anyone interested in a demonstration of ignorance and superstition will get a good dose of both in this current intro thread but don't read it when eating soup. You'll probably choke.

Typical of the gothic genre, verbose jelly-words and upside down thinking such as:
A goth is a goth because she listens to [insert name of satanic pop group]. Why are they satanic? Usually it's because they say they are. Why is this rubbish? Because a person is not defined by the music they listen to but by what they do. The goth does not understand this.

Now there are many people who look like goths, act like goths and so on who listen to Beethoven. Many of the so-called gothic guitarists admire his work, particularly the rhythmic devices he originated and the harmonic structure. So well regarded is he that a new system of tuning the guitar was necessary to play his music. And not only harmony but melody too; shredding The Moonlight Sonata is very demanding and I'm sure Beethoven would approve of his music being adapted to the electric guitar.

However Beethoven is not on the list of acceptable pop groups.

Similarly in the case of stupid made up "religions" generally less than 50 or 100 years old [such as were cooked up by MacGregor Mathers around the turn of the last century] but one or two might be 200 years old at a stretch I suppose. They have nothing whatsoever in common with actual Roman paganism or the heathen Greek cults they pretend to be named after and nothing at all to do with Druidism, about which virtually nothing is known because it's been extinct for centuries if not millennia.

The self-proclaimed goth does not know this.

Satan has boiled a particularly obnoxious brew this time around and distilled a toxic vapour deadlier than ever before. How do we know it's satanic? Because it sets itself up in opposition to God.

Explicitly - demonic symbols proliferating in artwork, piercings and scarification on the ever up, vile and disgusting lyrics claimed by the poets who write them to glorify evil.

Implicitly - having rejected Salvation there is no morality in this ridiculous cult so that any fad takes off like wildfire, then the next fad, and a labyrinth of delusion gets constructed around the poor saps who follow mindlessly; it is not created in ignorance but it is followed in ignorance.

There is a single objective. Reading The Bible reveals just how far and how quickly these depraved leaders have corrupted their moronic swarm. Virtually everything taught by God is opposed by the cultic "traditions" and pathetic "rituals" of the gothic automaton. They don't know that because they do not read The Bible, except backwards before burning it. Just because one clique has not heard what another clique does, they declare "o goth does not do that" meaning "I don't do that and if I haven't heard about it it doesn't happen or if it does it's no true gothtard."

Satan is that overarching objective. He doesn'r care why they listen to his music, just that they do so. But in upside-down land it's all icing and no cake. Rather than listening to music because one is a goth, these dolts think that they become goths by listening to the music. Of course not only goths listen to Beethoven. Or Mozart or Vivaldi for that matter. But any normal person knows that they do so simply because they like it. The gothic obsessional is incapable of that knowledge.

Appearance is all they have left. Satan will take that too and there will be nothing left, spiritually dead, sucked dry.

MATTHEW 10
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Damn you you asshole me being a Catholic doesn't make me a bad person

Do we have to spell it out for you friend; what does Hitler, Mussolini, Fransisco Franco and Augusto Pinochet have in common beyond being murderous dictators? They were Catholics. Put it another why; way do you think the Catholic church has it's child molesting priest problem?