A Discussion

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Discussion

What about the Banned item that says, "Aeternal Damnation Assured" with an image of an angel pushing a child into Hell. I am pretty sure that is an attitude entirely opposite of Christ.

Does not The Bible tell us Christ is going to judge us all come His return and those who He finds wanting will be cast into the fiery pit. I'd say we are perfectly in line with His teachings which is to be expected since we TRUE Christians have turned our lives over to Him.

[Nobar King]

Re: A Discussion

Maybe you should go to the introduction forum and read all the stickies. All your questions will be answered there.

Also, I don't cotton to being judged by hypocrites. Straighten up your act, boy.

[Ryan Hunter]

Re: A Discussion

Sorry, I am a long typist. I am actually beginning to co-write a book with a good friend of mine, but being 18 and all I have certain research which needs doing that age simply hasn't permitted when you weren't raised in Church.

Actually, Nobar raises a very interesting point; He is the perfect example of a very un-Christ like person with his comment. I am almost inclined to thank him for it.

But what I am concerned with is the unwelcome attitude, for example, the one Nobar has raised. I suffer from a certain amount of pride, so I am restraining myself from slamming him with a Bible, the thing Christians tend to read, Nobar. But what about the status "Unsaved Trash." What about the Banned item that says, "Aeternal Damnation Assured" with an image of an angel pushing a child into Hell. I am pretty sure that is an attitude entirely opposite of Christ. You get a lot of angry posts and (I'll imagine) e-mails and so forth for what is almost a debasement of the gospel. Pardon me, but if you don't understand almost the simplest part of the gospel and what it is to be a Christ like figure than I would say that you don't get any of it. The gospel isn't segmented; it isn't like you can understand what it is to take communion but not understand the Pentacost. You can't understand why the wealthy man followed all of God's teachings but had to sell his belongings without understanding why a whore can crawl to Jesus and be saved by a touch. You can't understand God's justice and not understand God's love, and vice versa. I have seen a great deal of Ezekials posts and they concern me far more than some free radical member protecting himself behind a wall of one-liner insults, but that is because he is a leader.

What I am reminded of is the the three friends of Job. They had a perfect understanding of God's justice, but were chastised by Him for not understanding how to handle a brother in the Lord, or, for any matter, a brother of the flesh. They didn't understand God's mercy or love or how to imitate it.

Now I'll stop myself right now and say that I am generalizing. If you aren't like this than take absolutely no offense. I was impressed with your tact Bobby-Joe.

But this is what I am trying to discuss. I raise my platform, but now I want to ask why you all handle things the way you do. Obviously you have some Biblical platform for it. To convince anyone here otherwise of their way is not my intention; it would be great (personally), but this is the board about False Religions and Cults, so I came to a place where I might raise a question and discuss doctrine. I'll post my set of beliefs soon, but I have leave for Young Adults Bible Study in about 3 minutes. Thank you for reading, and please share your thoughts. I'll research True Christian doctrine when I get home to be more educated.

[Nobar King]

Re: A Discussion

Maybe you should set up your own little Christian internet sanctuary for all the gametards and /b-tards to abuse you in and see how you like it.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Discussion

Rayn,

You seem to be asking an interesting question but your wall of text is hard to wade threw. If I understand you correctly in a nut shell we follow all of The Bible and The Bible demands we exclude the unsaved from our company until they stand up and our church and repent of their depravity and accept Jesus as their personal Savior

[Ryan Hunter]

I was wondering if anyone might direct me to a document or website that contains the True Christian doctrine. I am very curious as to the foundation for some of the practices I see on the forums; I predict you would say the Bible, as would I (one could easily just say the Bible is their doctrine); however, we can all agree interpretations of the Bible vary wildly between denominations and cults. I am wondering how you all interpret key passages of (most importantly) the gospel.

I would then be very eager to have a discussion. Perhaps you are used to hostility; that is not my intention (I will address that with the rest of this post). Putting our faith against stone, to sharpen it, is both wise and edifying. Don't confuse me; I may be critical of certain things, but not judgmental. If things get out of hand I will voluntarily leave, as the Bible says to not engage in fruitless, vain arguments simply for the sake of arguing; it is simply wise.

This verse obviously deals specifically with leaders and elders within the Church, but what is required of an elder is most certainly required of any other Christian; elders have simply fulfilled what Paul has described in Titus and made themselves qualified to lead other Christians. Let's apply it to our discussion. I don't want to prompt this, but I see a lack of fulfillment in this area in many threads that I see, particularly in this board concerning false religions. I say this with all do respect. The translation is ESV; it is not something like the Message, which could barely pass as a paraphrase of the Bible.

Titus 3

"1Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. 3For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."

Sorry, but I do not know any fancy html, so my verses from the Bible may look a little unmanageable. Anyways, obviously addressing areas that concern us is important, but if our discussion becomes unprofitable than I will, as I said, leave voluntarily. I have no need to become bitter against fellow Christians. Paul often warns us on how to be wise, for example, the verses that immediately follow tell us to avoid foolish discussion and the sort. As of now this isn't a foolish discussion.


Now to the meat of the discussion, and what I primarily want to talk about. I'll go ahead and and tell you now, and I know you will disagree with me in many ways concerning this, but I am Reformed (aka, a Calvinist). In many circles that is practically profanity, but I just want you to understand who I am. You guys save people and are my brother in Christ, but what I see is a Church wrapped up in the justification of God that they have missed the fact that Christ is God's justification. When I see the people who are banned I see the worst example of Christ. Jesus would borderline curse at the Pharisees and people like Herod, calling him a vixen (the equivalent of "bitch" in modern day language), but he would show unequivacle love and compassion for the prostitutes and tax payers. Even Jesus' first recorded miracle was refilling the wine at a party after people had drunk it all. I mean, what I see so often when browsing this forum are comments which seem to me like people consider themselves to be more righteous than Christ. I saw a post that said why the "Unsaved are NOT Welcome!" Well then how on Earth are you fulfilling the Great Commission? What about the queers and the lesbians, the goths and the cutters, the loose women and the atheists? What is your definition of welcome anyways? I see Revs and Pastors shooting them down for asking questions, showing concerns, or even persecuting them. Defend your faith, but you would do it far less and win far more people to God with loving example of Christ. Remember, just like in the verse I posted from Titus 3, we were just as lost as them, and although we may be forgiven of ours sins we still commit them. What I see a lack of, in a word, is an acknowledgement of our own depravity. We aren't super humans; although, God is just, merciful, kind, and loving he sent Christ to take upon our sins as the single and last sacrifice so that we may be with Him, it doesn't mean we are suddenly free of committing the sins that we condemn. Why are you so determined to build up walls? To protect yourselves? You're saved! You are already protected! Just the other day I offered a drunk a ride in my car to the bus station, and I wasn't in the decent part of the city either. Because of this I had an phenomenal discussion about Christianity, why Mormonism is a misconstruement of the Bible (his mother was Mormon), and what it meant for me to be saved and, through extent because Christ died for all, what that meant for Him. The fact is that the world is no less dangerous now than it has been. Opening your doors to a homeless man in a city is just as dangerous as it was back then, but that is an example of how Christ told the wealthier to be more like Him. You show kindness and break down your idols all in a single command.

Now we need to protect the people in the Church by not allowing someone who has committed a serious offense in the Church into the walls. Let's not put wives and children in danger, but the second we leave those walls we must reveal our kindness to them. Even God told apostles to run from danger; he doesn't want us to be complete fools. And when those people have been saved we need to open those walls back up to them. This is a lot of reading, so I will let you all get a word in and continue on with my response. I know I am almost cutting myself off mid-sentence, but I think you all understand where I am coming from now. I am interested in your thoughts.