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I was wondering if anyone might direct me to a document or website that contains the True Christian doctrine. I am very curious as to the foundation for some of the practices I see on the forums; I predict you would say the Bible, as would I (one could easily just say the Bible is their doctrine); however, we can all agree interpretations of the Bible vary wildly between denominations and cults. I am wondering how you all interpret key passages of (most importantly) the gospel.
I would then be very eager to have a discussion. Perhaps you are used to hostility; that is not my intention (I will address that with the rest of this post). Putting our faith against stone, to sharpen it, is both wise and edifying. Don't confuse me; I may be critical of certain things, but not judgmental. If things get out of hand I will voluntarily leave, as the Bible says to not engage in fruitless, vain arguments simply for the sake of arguing; it is simply wise.
This verse obviously deals specifically with leaders and elders within the Church, but what is required of an elder is most certainly required of any other Christian; elders have simply fulfilled what Paul has described in Titus and made themselves qualified to lead other Christians. Let's apply it to our discussion. I don't want to prompt this, but I see a lack of fulfillment in this area in many threads that I see, particularly in this board concerning false religions. I say this with all do respect. The translation is ESV; it is not something like the Message, which could barely pass as a paraphrase of the Bible.
Titus 3
"1Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. 3For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."
Sorry, but I do not know any fancy html, so my verses from the Bible may look a little unmanageable. Anyways, obviously addressing areas that concern us is important, but if our discussion becomes unprofitable than I will, as I said, leave voluntarily. I have no need to become bitter against fellow Christians. Paul often warns us on how to be wise, for example, the verses that immediately follow tell us to avoid foolish discussion and the sort. As of now this isn't a foolish discussion.
Now to the meat of the discussion, and what I primarily want to talk about. I'll go ahead and and tell you now, and I know you will disagree with me in many ways concerning this, but I am Reformed (aka, a Calvinist). In many circles that is practically profanity, but I just want you to understand who I am. You guys save people and are my brother in Christ, but what I see is a Church wrapped up in the justification of God that they have missed the fact that Christ is God's justification. When I see the people who are banned I see the worst example of Christ. Jesus would borderline curse at the Pharisees and people like Herod, calling him a vixen (the equivalent of "bitch" in modern day language), but he would show unequivacle love and compassion for the prostitutes and tax payers. Even Jesus' first recorded miracle was refilling the wine at a party after people had drunk it all. I mean, what I see so often when browsing this forum are comments which seem to me like people consider themselves to be more righteous than Christ. I saw a post that said why the "Unsaved are NOT Welcome!" Well then how on Earth are you fulfilling the Great Commission? What about the queers and the lesbians, the goths and the cutters, the loose women and the atheists? What is your definition of welcome anyways? I see Revs and Pastors shooting them down for asking questions, showing concerns, or even persecuting them. Defend your faith, but you would do it far less and win far more people to God with loving example of Christ. Remember, just like in the verse I posted from Titus 3, we were just as lost as them, and although we may be forgiven of ours sins we still commit them. What I see a lack of, in a word, is an acknowledgement of our own depravity. We aren't super humans; although, God is just, merciful, kind, and loving he sent Christ to take upon our sins as the single and last sacrifice so that we may be with Him, it doesn't mean we are suddenly free of committing the sins that we condemn. Why are you so determined to build up walls? To protect yourselves? You're saved! You are already protected! Just the other day I offered a drunk a ride in my car to the bus station, and I wasn't in the decent part of the city either. Because of this I had an phenomenal discussion about Christianity, why Mormonism is a misconstruement of the Bible (his mother was Mormon), and what it meant for me to be saved and, through extent because Christ died for all, what that meant for Him. The fact is that the world is no less dangerous now than it has been. Opening your doors to a homeless man in a city is just as dangerous as it was back then, but that is an example of how Christ told the wealthier to be more like Him. You show kindness and break down your idols all in a single command.
Now we need to protect the people in the Church by not allowing someone who has committed a serious offense in the Church into the walls. Let's not put wives and children in danger, but the second we leave those walls we must reveal our kindness to them. Even God told apostles to run from danger; he doesn't want us to be complete fools. And when those people have been saved we need to open those walls back up to them. This is a lot of reading, so I will let you all get a word in and continue on with my response. I know I am almost cutting myself off mid-sentence, but I think you all understand where I am coming from now. I am interested in your thoughts.
I would then be very eager to have a discussion. Perhaps you are used to hostility; that is not my intention (I will address that with the rest of this post). Putting our faith against stone, to sharpen it, is both wise and edifying. Don't confuse me; I may be critical of certain things, but not judgmental. If things get out of hand I will voluntarily leave, as the Bible says to not engage in fruitless, vain arguments simply for the sake of arguing; it is simply wise.
This verse obviously deals specifically with leaders and elders within the Church, but what is required of an elder is most certainly required of any other Christian; elders have simply fulfilled what Paul has described in Titus and made themselves qualified to lead other Christians. Let's apply it to our discussion. I don't want to prompt this, but I see a lack of fulfillment in this area in many threads that I see, particularly in this board concerning false religions. I say this with all do respect. The translation is ESV; it is not something like the Message, which could barely pass as a paraphrase of the Bible.
Titus 3
"1Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. 3For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."
Sorry, but I do not know any fancy html, so my verses from the Bible may look a little unmanageable. Anyways, obviously addressing areas that concern us is important, but if our discussion becomes unprofitable than I will, as I said, leave voluntarily. I have no need to become bitter against fellow Christians. Paul often warns us on how to be wise, for example, the verses that immediately follow tell us to avoid foolish discussion and the sort. As of now this isn't a foolish discussion.
Now to the meat of the discussion, and what I primarily want to talk about. I'll go ahead and and tell you now, and I know you will disagree with me in many ways concerning this, but I am Reformed (aka, a Calvinist). In many circles that is practically profanity, but I just want you to understand who I am. You guys save people and are my brother in Christ, but what I see is a Church wrapped up in the justification of God that they have missed the fact that Christ is God's justification. When I see the people who are banned I see the worst example of Christ. Jesus would borderline curse at the Pharisees and people like Herod, calling him a vixen (the equivalent of "bitch" in modern day language), but he would show unequivacle love and compassion for the prostitutes and tax payers. Even Jesus' first recorded miracle was refilling the wine at a party after people had drunk it all. I mean, what I see so often when browsing this forum are comments which seem to me like people consider themselves to be more righteous than Christ. I saw a post that said why the "Unsaved are NOT Welcome!" Well then how on Earth are you fulfilling the Great Commission? What about the queers and the lesbians, the goths and the cutters, the loose women and the atheists? What is your definition of welcome anyways? I see Revs and Pastors shooting them down for asking questions, showing concerns, or even persecuting them. Defend your faith, but you would do it far less and win far more people to God with loving example of Christ. Remember, just like in the verse I posted from Titus 3, we were just as lost as them, and although we may be forgiven of ours sins we still commit them. What I see a lack of, in a word, is an acknowledgement of our own depravity. We aren't super humans; although, God is just, merciful, kind, and loving he sent Christ to take upon our sins as the single and last sacrifice so that we may be with Him, it doesn't mean we are suddenly free of committing the sins that we condemn. Why are you so determined to build up walls? To protect yourselves? You're saved! You are already protected! Just the other day I offered a drunk a ride in my car to the bus station, and I wasn't in the decent part of the city either. Because of this I had an phenomenal discussion about Christianity, why Mormonism is a misconstruement of the Bible (his mother was Mormon), and what it meant for me to be saved and, through extent because Christ died for all, what that meant for Him. The fact is that the world is no less dangerous now than it has been. Opening your doors to a homeless man in a city is just as dangerous as it was back then, but that is an example of how Christ told the wealthier to be more like Him. You show kindness and break down your idols all in a single command.
Now we need to protect the people in the Church by not allowing someone who has committed a serious offense in the Church into the walls. Let's not put wives and children in danger, but the second we leave those walls we must reveal our kindness to them. Even God told apostles to run from danger; he doesn't want us to be complete fools. And when those people have been saved we need to open those walls back up to them. This is a lot of reading, so I will let you all get a word in and continue on with my response. I know I am almost cutting myself off mid-sentence, but I think you all understand where I am coming from now. I am interested in your thoughts.
Why so quick to judge?
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