[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

But if you truly follow Jesus you would listen to everything He said and not just pick and choose which verses to follow.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is telling us here to follow ALL of the Bible. We follow the Bible 100%, word-for-word. Do you? If not, you will be damned to Hell.



Wrong. In many places in the Bible, God makes it clear he hates the sin AND the sinner. For example...

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psalm 5:5-6

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence His soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

I am not picking verses...I do listen to everything...Yet...you do not see a single instance of the word 'hate' in the New Testament. Not trying to segregate the Bible here, but from the viewpoint of God hating things...it is impossible to love and hate something at the same time. It's illogical.

All workers of iniquity? He is clearly referring to Satan and his demons, if your perspective was correct then how could God love the world and then send Jesus? Jesus saves these people, my Brother...he saves them...as he has done for you and me if they repent...those that don't burn in Hell...I agree with that.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Discussion

Trust me...I don't tolerate a lot of things. Intolerance and hate are two different things though. Love? I think he meant that he would DIE FOR US.

Of course we love the sinners and would do anything to help them be Saved(tm) like us friend. Why do you think we run this forum? To give those horrid low lives the best chance they have of escaping their richly deserved fate!

It really makes us sad that most will be blinded by pride and hate to that they will refuse Christ's gift. But Christ promises us He will wash away our tears so I have faith my Loving Savior will ease my pain at watching so many burn forever.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

We do. We promote True Christianity™, which is the only way to Heaven. We let the world know what it takes to get into Heaven.

I agree with that True Christianity is the only way to Heaven.

Yes, but what does Jesus mean by "love"? Does he mean be a sissy, tolerate everything around you, and give everyone hugs? No, sometimes tough love is necessary! We have to rebuke, tell it like it is, and give people the honest truth -- even if it hurts them. We are constantly trying to help people get Saved© by Jesus Christ so that they may have eternal life. That is love, right there! We are offering people a way to Heaven and an escape from eternal damnation by our hardworking efforts to show others the Truth about the Bible and not damn them by distorting it.

Trust me...I don't tolerate a lot of things. Intolerance and hate are two different things though. Love? I think he meant that he would DIE FOR US.

I hope your question was rhetorical, Rev...love is clearly defined in 1 Corinthians.

Jesus is the one who washes away the sins, not us. Through his temporary sacrifice, we may all have eternal life....IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. Jesus makes it very clear what happens if you don't follow Him...you become eternally damned.

I totally agree...

What the point of the story above is this: Jesus washes away your sins through his blood. We are commanded to go out and save sinners in Jesus' name. Jesus washed away Judas' sins in the story and he commands them to go out and do the same -- but we can't wash away or forgive sins, only Jesus! However, we can be witnesses to Christ's Word and spread the Good News that Jesus Christ has died and resurrected so we may have eternal life.

Truth...we do only play a part. I agree with you on that part, Rev.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

Anyways, my point is that Jesus excepted those who did not follow the Jewish Law (the Law that we all come from as Christians) as well as those who did.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ...all of us who believe...truly believe that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God, came to earth, died, and was risen to life to save us all from our sins is saved.

But if you truly follow Jesus you would listen to everything He said and not just pick and choose which verses to follow.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is telling us here to follow ALL of the Bible. We follow the Bible 100%, word-for-word. Do you? If not, you will be damned to Hell.

Mark 2:17...for it is the Word of God, Praise unto the Father.

My point is: God ***HATES*** sin, but he does not hate a single person, he loves us all. For through the Power of Jesus Christ we are saved. You are not saved by your own righteousness...for not one of us on Earth are truly righteous...

Wrong. In many places in the Bible, God makes it clear he hates the sin AND the sinner. For example...

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psalm 5:5-6

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence His soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

[QUOTE=sinnerbutsaved;368936]John 3:16

He is giving everyone a chance...why don't you?



John 13:34

This is the commandment straight from the mouth of Our Living Savior and Redeemer. Putting it into context, he is speaking to his disciples, are you a disciple of Jesus, to spread his Word?

[quote]When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Now realize that Jesus has just washed Judas' feet, thus making him "clean." Jesus has made the man who would betray him clean! Now that is acceptance of sin, is it not? Jesus has accepted my sins...I am eternally grateful for God's gift.

May God continue to grace us with his Love and we continue to give praise to our Creator.

-Brett

I do love my fellow True Christians. What's your problem?

Also, you don't get an edit button. Your words are set in digital stone for all to see for the ages. Make sure that you are typing what you meant, and not something else. There's a preview area with additional features to help you make your message more accurate. Try it out.

no i missed the slash in the "end quote" block and wanted to put it back...not change anything I said.

Anyways, my point is that Jesus excepted those who did not follow the Jewish Law (the Law that we all come from as Christians) as well as those who did.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ...all of us who believe...truly believe that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God, came to earth, died, and was risen to life to save us all from our sins is saved.

You call me a sinner? THANK YOU! For my sins make me human and while I'd DO NOT embrace them for they are evil, I DO sin...you do too...and that's okay, because it gives justification for Jesus' death and resurrection. I came to Christ because he still loved me when I did not know Him.

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Mark 2:17...for it is the Word of God, Praise unto the Father.

My point is: God ***HATES*** sin, but he does not hate a single person, he loves us all. For through the Power of Jesus Christ we are saved. You are not saved by your own righteousness...for not one of us on Earth are truly righteous...

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

John 3:16

He is giving everyone a chance...why don't you?

We do. We promote True Christianity™, which is the only way to Heaven. We let the world know what it takes to get into Heaven.

John 13:34

This is the commandment straight from the mouth of Our Living Savior and Redeemer. Putting it into context, he is speaking to his disciples, are you a disciple of Jesus, to spread his Word?

Yes, but what does Jesus mean by "love"? Does he mean be a sissy, tolerate everything around you, and give everyone hugs? No, sometimes tough love is necessary! We have to rebuke, tell it like it is, and give people the honest truth -- even if it hurts them. We are constantly trying to help people get Saved© by Jesus Christ so that they may have eternal life. That is love, right there! We are offering people a way to Heaven and an escape from eternal damnation by our hardworking efforts to show others the Truth about the Bible and not damn them by distorting it.

When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Now realize that Jesus has just washed Judas' feet, thus making him "clean." Jesus has made the man who would betray him clean! Now that is acceptance of sin, is it not? Jesus has accepted my sins...I am eternally grateful for God's gift.

Jesus is the one who washes away the sins, not us. Through his temporary sacrifice, we may all have eternal life....IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. Jesus makes it very clear what happens if you don't follow Him...you become eternally damned.

What the point of the story above is this: Jesus washes away your sins through his blood. We are commanded to go out and save sinners in Jesus' name. Jesus washed away Judas' sins in the story and he commands them to go out and do the same -- but we can't wash away or forgive sins, only Jesus! However, we can be witnesses to Christ's Word and spread the Good News that Jesus Christ has died and resurrected so we may have eternal life.

[Deaner]

Re: A Discussion

I need a edit button please

Are you blind sinner?

[Nobar King]

Re: A Discussion

I do love my fellow True Christians. What's your problem?

Also, you don't get an edit button. Your words are set in digital stone for all to see for the ages. Make sure that you are typing what you meant, and not something else. There's a preview area with additional features to help you make your message more accurate. Try it out.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

...and totally like how it says "unsaved trash..." ya'll dont even know my faith yet Why so quick to judge?

I need a edit button please

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

Atheist are far, far worse that any Samaritan was. At lest Samaritan accepted the existence of God even though they worshiped with a false doctrine. We of Landover have learned the hard way to be always on our guard against atheists and their "jokes". To show an atheist any mercy is to invite the destruction of your own soul.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

He is giving everyone a chance...why don't you?

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 13:34

This is the commandment straight from the mouth of Our Living Savior and Redeemer. Putting it into context, he is speaking to his disciples, are you a disciple of Jesus, to spread his Word?

[quote]When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.[quote]

Now realize that Jesus has just washed Judas' feet, thus making him "clean." Jesus has made the man who would betray him clean! Now that is acceptance of sin, is it not? Jesus has accepted my sins...I am eternally grateful for God's gift.

May God continue to grace us with his Love and we continue to give praise to our Creator.

-Brett

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Discussion

But what about how Christ handled the atheists? Here is a perfect example of how he handled the Samritan woman:

Atheist are far, far worse that any Samaritan was. At lest Samaritan accepted the existence of God even though they worshiped with a false doctrine. We of Landover have learned the hard way to be always on our guard against atheists and their "jokes". To show an atheist any mercy is to invite the destruction of your own soul.

[Ryan Hunter]

Re: A Discussion

First and foremost, I apologize if a lot of reading is burdensome to anyone. I would at least expect that you would appreciate that I am not simply here to throw insults but yield a discussion. Ezekial Bathfire (to some minute degree) and Bobby Joe pose good questions to me. I respect that this isn;t a debate forum, but the hitch is that I also believe I am following God's word to the letter, which would coincidentily make me right. I may be 18, but you'll find that I am far wiser than you would assume by my digits, or at least knowledgable. Elders are important, but age isn't everything when one of your spiritual gifts is wisdom. Regardless, I am wiling to hear other people and understand them. Everyone here is arrogant, myself included. To not be when we refer to God and Christ and the Holy Spirit would be a flaw.

Ezekial Bathfire: If reading a long explanation isn't your thing than don't practice apologetics or read any theological books, particularly Systematic Theology. I'll just imagine you aren't being a heretic and assume you were testing me by asking me if I had scripture to back up who God is. Romans talks incessently about the justice of God. I would make it your next book of study (it's my favorite, personally). 1st John talks incessently about how God is love; this one I will be sure to back up with verses here and now, as this seems tobe a confusing concept to some present. 1 John 4:7 "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God." 4:8 "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." 4:10 "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

This verse is a fusion of how God is both just and kind, Romans 2: "1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?"

God's kindess is more difficult than a simple human definition. The very fact that we are given a chance to repent is an example of His kindess, and here this verse says we take advantage of it.

Pastor Ezekial: I also follow God's word to the letter. That's why I would consider myself a Calvinist. God is just, for sure. Don't think I only spout God's love, but you don't appear to spout it at all. That's the point. I read that you define love through rebuking the atheists (rebuking illusionary Christians I understand and agree with, Jesus had a hay day with the Pharisees). Again, I respect that this isn't a debate forum; I will leave at request if it is such a bother. But continuing on, I also believe in the authority of scripture as God's infallible and inspired Word.

As far as the Bible I use, the ESV, it is about as direct a translation from Hebrew texts as you can get. It is recent, but being Reformed one of the things we care about most is making sure we have a direct translation from the Bible. The Reformed movement is also the movement releasing the Logos software, which I think you would find very interesting, at the least. Anyways, I believe we can both agree that the more direct translation the better. You probably haven't even looked at an ESV, but that is a presupposition and I can't declare that you haven't, only assume.

Thank you for the link to your doctrine. I believe your defintion of tolerance is correct, and I agree Christ is certainly not tolerant of sin; however, he handled it far differently than I see here. I respected your tact here as well Pastor Ezekial, but if comparing me and prejudging me as a bastard or gametard, as Nobar did, is lovingly rebuking me than I am inclined to believe there is some kind of deception. Tell people they are going to Hell, by all means. I do it myself. I also lead up to it. Atheists and, in particular, people who are seeking a God but have found an idol (sometimes being God himself, like the Pharisees) do not respond well to your tactics. The intention may be pure enough, that is why I call you brothers in Christ.

I read the verse that Pastor Billy-Rueben used to justify what I see. The problem is it is theologically misused. That verse deals directly with the Pharisees, the supposed supreme followers of God, who were chosen for damnation and Christ knew that their actions and their hearts would not repent. God hates the false prophets and those who raise up idols, even ones where God himself is used for idolatry. Jesus called them a brood of vipers!

But what about how Christ handled the atheists? Here is a perfect example of how he handled the Samritan woman:

John 4 "7A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, 'Give me a drink.' 8(For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.) 9The Samaritan woman said to him, 'How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?' ( For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 10Jesus answered her, 'If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.' 11The woman said to him, 'Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.' 13Jesus said to her, 'Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.' 15The woman said to him, 'Sir, give me this water, so that I will not be thirsty or have to come here to draw water.'"

Would you have called her Samritan trash, telling her to follow Jesus or burn in Hell for eternity? No Christ wisely offered and explained the weight of eternity through the image of water. Hell is important, but Christ decided that this women did not need to be handled as he handled the Pharisees, who were already lost.

And what about the theif on the cross? Talk about God's grace! Jesus responded only simply by saying that he will truly be with him in Paradise. It the perfect example of repentance and grace, the sort which Jesus calls from us. I grow weary when I have to repair the damage that has been caused by those who focus to heavily on wrath and destruction. It is difficult, but I have managed. The lost person doesn't give a damn about Hell; that is why they are lost. They especially don't respond to what appears to them as hypocrisy, and for that matter, to me as well. Anyone who judges condemns themselves, not that we don't tell them where they will go if they don't repent. However, you Banned icon is (I keep bringing it up because it is a perfect example) is the perfect example of self-condemnation. Telling someone they are assured, beyond a doubt, a place in Hell, and have no hope for they will remain lost, is not for us to decide.

[Whip of Japheth]

Re: A Discussion

...

And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
Exodus 9:23

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A Discussion

[Acres of text deleted without loss of meaning] Now to the meat of the discussion,[Acres of text deleted without loss of meaning] although, God is just, merciful, kind, and loving [Acres of text deleted without loss of meaning]

Have you Scripture for that or are you refering to some minor inconsequential false deity?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: A Discussion

Ryan, before presenting us with these long ponderous diatribes, you might consider exploring this forum on your own. We provide a "search" function for that very purpose. Our Church doctrines can be seen HERE, and there are dozens of old sermons we have posted HERE that would no doubt help you understand the errors of your false church.

Also, what Bible do you use? Do you know how to tell which version is the one True Word of God?

I want to be clear with you friend; this is not a debate forum. Since we follow the Word of God literally, to the letter, that makes us right. As long as we start off with that understanding, things will go smoothly for you.