[Isabella Abbey]

Re: The Holy Noodle

I ... but being italian, andd thus knowing the damage that eating spaghetti has done to our people,

What damage does pasta do to people?

The basis for their logic is the principle of contradiction. Using the logic based on this principle, each philosopher come to different conclusions wich was... well, in contradiction whit conclusions of the other. So secular logic is not consistent whit its own foundation.
Vice Versa, the Bible has just one truth. So the Bible, who deny the usefulness of logic, is more consistent with logic than logic itself.

Ah. I see the font isn't bringing forth clear water. Please disregard my earlier question.

[sr korgul]

Re: The Holy Noodle

Now let us use logic not science.

PROPOSTION 1. The universe exhibits too much structure to have evolved by chance.
CONCLUSION 1. There was a creator.
PROPOSTION 2. All things are subject to the passage of time.
CONCLUSION 2. The processes of the universe were in action over the time period in which it was created.
PROPOSTION 3. Nothing, not even a God, can know the exact outcome of a situation in the universe, Moreover, the uncertainty increases with the time elapsed since the parameters of the situation were known.
CONCLUSION 3. If the creator wished to make the universe precisely as he pleased, then he would need to do it rapidly.
PROPOSTION 4. Any being that would create a universe for his own pleasure is an egotistical maniac.
CONCLUSION 4. The creator was an egotistical maniac.
CONCLUSION 5. Since an egotistical maniac. Would want things done his way, he must have, by C3, made the universe extremely rapidly; in fact as rapidly as possible.
PROPOSTION 5. If a creator could affect more points of space simultaneously, then he could create the structure in the universe more rapidly.
CONCLUSION 6. A creator with more appendages than another could have created the universe more rapidly.
CONCLUSION 7. Since by C5, the creator made the universe as rapidly as possible, he has as many appendages as possible.
PROPOSTION 6. The universe is discrete.
CONCLUSION 8. There is a minimal thickness to the appendages of the creator.
CONCLUSION 9. A creator with thinner appendages can have more of them.
CONCLUSION 10. By C7 and C9, the creator had as many appendages as possible, all of minimal thickness.
CONCLUSION 11. The creator was a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Proof of Proposition 3

PROPOSTION 7. The creator made us for his pleasure.
PROPOSTION 8. There is no pleasure to be drawn from us if we do not have free will.
CONCLUSION 12. We have free will
PROPOSTION 9. If the universe was premeditated, then we would not have free will.
CONCLUSION 13. The universe is not premeditated.
PROPOSTION 10. The creator set up the initial conditions of the universe.
CONCLUSION 14. By C13, there is uncertainty in the unfolding of the universe.
CONCLUSION 15. As uncertainty on top of uncertainty brings even more uncertainty, as time passes, the level of uncertainty increses.
CONCLUSION 16. Proposition 3 is true.

I hope that mr Goldman forgives me if I continue arguing after he completly demolished the argouments of the blind noodle worshipper, but being italian, andd thus knowing the damage that eating spaghetti has done to our people, I feel the urge to fight against that abomination.

First of all the Bible clearly states that human logic is useless

1 Corinthians 3:20



20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain

Anyway, I bet a Spghetti worshipper would be fool enough to not belive the bible, so let me show me some facts that support this truth:

A greek homer named Parmenides and his follower Zeno (a bold men killed by god by landing a tartoise in his head) showed incontrovertibly that the existence of the universe was not consistent with secular logic. Since sodomy sucked them away every bit of wisdom, anyway, their conclusion were not "secular logic is useless" but "the world do not exist, present people included", so "philosopher" continued using "logic" for thousand years.

The basis for their logic is the principle of contradiction. Using the logic based on this principle, each philosopher come to different conclusions wich was... well, in contradiction whit conclusions of the other. So secular logic is not consistent whit its own foundation.
Vice Versa, the Bible has just one truth. So the Bible, who deny the usefulness of logic, is more consistent with logic than logic itself.

Last, your logic is wrong even by secular standard.
Don't you Know that even an Hatefool atheist fool as David Hume was able to demonstrate tha not only free will is possible in conjunction with determinsim, but requires determinism?

[Talitha]

Re: The Holy Noodle

The God described in your book has no sense of humour so therfore must be false.

Of course HE has a sense of humor. Look how ugly he made Ornamentals and Messicans.






.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: The Holy Noodle

I meant to say argument dismantled by Dr. Goldman.

If anyone can fix and delete please? Sorry, I didn't credit the source.

He has not dismantled the fact that the version of the creation that I have given is more fun then the one you lot believe, therefore is more credible then you mumbo jumbo...

God has a sense of humour, just look around you...
How would the likes of Bush (Snr & Jnr) and Reagan have ever been elected otherwise, and just look at the Duck billed platypus, the creature is a dead give away that the creator was either having a laugh, drunk or both.
The God described in your book has no sense of humour so therfore must be false.

[Levi Jones]

Re: The Holy Noodle

That free will has been revoked during the Rapture. You will bow at that time.

You have already said what you "feel" the creator would believe if your pathetic "proofs" were true.

Argument dismantled.

Try harder next time.

I meant to say argument dismantled by Dr. Goldman.

If anyone can fix and delete please? Sorry, I didn't credit the source.

[Levi Jones]

Re: The Holy Noodle

What is there to confess, if he knows it all?

That free will has been revoked during the Rapture. You will bow at that time.

You have already said what you "feel" the creator would believe if your pathetic "proofs" were true.

Argument dismantled.

Try harder next time.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: The Holy Noodle

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

What is there to confess, if he knows it all?

[David Goldman]

Re: The Holy Noodle

Can't be any fun if he already knew he was tossing me in there,in fact if he is Omnipercipient then as far as he is concerned I am already BBQ Pasta. If that is the case why should I bother to be anything other then what I am? is there even the remotest possibility that I could be anything else even if I thought I wanted to be?

That's between you and God. You can demand all the justifications you wish from Him when you are grovelling before Him at your final judgment.

Romans 14

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: The Holy Noodle

Luckily He isn't paying you $120/hr for counseling sessions

Any shrink taking on a client with the problems your "god" has would charge a lot more then that

True Christians™, having the mind of Christ, can make some educated guesses as to how God thinks. And one of my guesses is that God derives some pleasure from tossing heathen spaghetti worshipers into the big boiling grease vat in the middle of the Earth. But that's just my guess, for what it is worth

Can't be any fun if he already knew he was tossing me in there,in fact if he is Omnipercipient then as far as he is concerned I am already BBQ Pasta. If that is the case why should I bother to be anything other then what I am? is there even the remotest possibility that I could be anything else even if I thought I wanted to be?

He sounds more like Phil the Night manager then a real god

[David Goldman]

Re: The Holy Noodle

I agree that our creator is all seeing, but I feel that like us he would find thing much more enjoyable if they were a few surprises along the way,

And there you go.

Romans 11

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Luckily He isn't paying you $120/hr for counseling sessions


However, having said that . . .
1 Corinthians 2:16

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

True Christians™, having the mind of Christ, can make some educated guesses as to how God thinks. And one of my guesses is that God derives some pleasure from tossing heathen spaghetti worshipers into the big boiling grease vat in the middle of the Earth. But that's just my guess, for what it is worth

[Levi Jones]

Re: The Holy Noodle

I agree that our creator is all seeing, but I feel..

Noodlehead propaganda deleted.

Have fun with that one, Dr. G.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: The Holy Noodle

It doesn't matter what you think. If you can't come to grips with God's omniscience, then that's your loss. If you can't come to grips that man is predicable, then you will be an easy mark for humanists and you lose there as well. Basically you are in the worst of both worlds, a fool in God's eyes and a fool in men's eyes, with nothing to comfort you except a weak and unsourced mantra and a plate of spaghetti that you worship.

Bon appetit!

I agree that our creator is all seeing, but I feel that like us he would find thing much more enjoyable if they were a few surprises along the way, otherwise it would be very boring to be God. If a being is going to go to all the effort of creation they are going to want some enjoyment as payback.

I am much happier with a god that want to have fun then the one described in your book who appears to think fun is a bad thing.

Now I know you could not give a fettered dingo's kidney whether I am happy or not, I just give the Pastafarian version of creation to show others that our view of the creator is a lot more fun then yours.

[Levi Jones]

Re: The Holy Noodle

Sorry to jump in here, but this has been one of the most savage beatings of a noodle since Onan.

Well done, Dr. Goldman.

[David Goldman]

Re: The Holy Noodle

But by your logic I have no option to do otherwise, as you must also keep repeating yourself in not accepting that a person can think for themselves and does not need to give sources, you only ever give one source yourself, one that I do not accept.

Would you go to a football match if you new the final score before you bought your ticket?
What is the enjoyment of reading a book if you know how it ends... Oh sorry bad example you only read the one book.
There are many artists who do not know how they work will turn out, are you going to tell me that Jackson Pollock new before he started what the end result of his work would look like?

It doesn't matter what you think. If you can't come to grips with God's omniscience, then that's your loss. If you can't come to grips that man is predicable, then you will be an easy mark for humanists and you lose there as well. Basically you are in the worst of both worlds, a fool in God's eyes and a fool in men's eyes, with nothing to comfort you except a weak and unsourced mantra and a plate of spaghetti that you worship.

Bon appetit!

[Jo Freddie]

Re: The Holy Noodle

Because your "proposition 8" is total BS. One more time, I am asking for a source. You are making an extraordinary claim, and that demands some proof. Artist, engineers, programmers, composers, and architects create all kinds of things all of the time with the precise purpose that the outcome be exactly as they had hoped. In fact an unexpected outcome more often than not RUINS the experience.

So put up or shut up. Prove your prop 8, that God's foreknowledge trumping our freewill invalids any and all pleasure God might receive from His creation. Because you are just vainly repeating yourself now, going in circles, turning into a troll.

But by your logic I have no option to do otherwise, as you must also keep repeating yourself in not accepting that a person can think for themselves and does not need to give sources, you only ever give one source yourself, one that I do not accept.

Would you go to a football match if you new the final score before you bought your ticket?
What is the enjoyment of reading a book if you know how it ends... Oh sorry bad example you only read the one book.
There are many artists who do not know how they work will turn out, are you going to tell me that Jackson Pollock new before he started what the end result of his work would look like?