[Brother Enoch]

Re: The case for atheism

So what you say, i need to have a miserable live before i can play the harpe? This means that all that have good lives wil burn in hell ?

Huh? What's 'miserable' about praising Jesus every day of your life and following the KJV to the letter?

I'll have you know all of us True Christians(tm) are the happiest people you'll ever meet because we know our salvation is assured. Doesn't our sheer joy exude from every word we write here?

[tomasespensen]

Re: The case for atheism

I'll have you know all of us True Christians™ are the happiest people you'll ever meet because we know our salvation is assured. Doesn't our sheer joy exude from every word we write here?

I dont say its not work for you, i say its not work for me, i have seen NO prove what so ever that i should try to get a seat in heaven, i admit, i have been happy when i have been in church, but outside the life sux, and i just seen God put in obstickles for me, call me week, but i am not in for 60 more years jumping dutching, crawling and so on.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: The case for atheism

I dont say its not work for you, i say its not work for me, i have seen NO prove what so ever that i should try to get a seat in heaven, i admit, i have been happy when i have been in church, but outside the life sux, and i just seen God put in obstickles for me, call me week, but i am not in for 60 more years jumping dutching, crawling and so on.

Listen friend, if you don't go to Heaven Landover promises a full refund of your money. Were is the risk?

[Jedediah]

Re: The case for atheism

I dont say its not work for you, i say its not work for me, i have seen NO prove what so ever that i should try to get a seat in heaven, i admit, i have been happy when i have been in church, but outside the life sux, and i just seen God put in obstickles for me, call me week, but i am not in for 60 more years jumping dutching, crawling and so on.

Then I sincerely hope you enjoy hell. Seriously, I mean that. I hope you make the best of the situation since you are so clearly beyond Redemption. Good luck with it. Based on your disturbing testimony, it is clear that God has preordained you unto eternal torments, so there's really no point wasting our time with you when there are those called here by our beacon of righteousness, who are truly worthy of fellowshipping among us.


II Thessalonians 2:11-13
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

[tomasespensen]

Re: The case for atheism

Listen friend, if you don't go to Heaven Landover promises a full refund of your money. Were is the risk?

I never paied anyone, so whats to refund.

However you are right, i have nothing to loose, and this is also why i am willing to learn, so feel free to teach me, but as you see i am unsaved trashed, Nazi (idunno why) and lotsa red dots, so i take it i am already lost

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: The case for atheism

I never paied anyone, so whats to refund.

However you are right, i have nothing to loose, and this is also why i am willing to learn, so feel free to teach me, but as you see i am unsaved trashed, Nazi (idunno why) and lotsa red dots, so i take it i am already lost

I voted for Bill Clinton in 1995 and yet I am saved. Why not you? All things are possible under Christ.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: The case for atheism

So you admit to being a liar. Thank you for being honest. About being a liar.

I have no idea what you are talking about. When did I admit to being a liar?

Let me qualify. A lie is a statement known or believed by its maker to be false that is made with the intent to deceive. What have I ever said that meets those criteria? If I said I was a liar, knowing it to be false, and I said it all seriousness intending for you to believe me, then I would be a liar.

Note that according to this definition a statement can be true and still be a lie if the maker of the statement believes it is false. One can also make a statement known (or believed) to be false as a joke or simply a story to entertain. For example were the parables of Jesus literally true or just stories to make a point?

I don't consider anyone on this board to be a liar although I believe everyone is mistaken at one time or another. Who knows? Even me.

My church doesn't support racism or sexism, and neither does Landover.

We support God's Law as provided in the Bible.

Same thing. Be honest. The Bible is (in various places) racist and sexist and so are you. Maybe racism and sexism are OK with God. But are you racist and sexist because God is or did you choose a religion that agrees with your own racism and sexism? I cut the Hebrews some slack. They lived in harsh times when life was short and cheap. To believe the same thing thousands of years later, because you are reading from the book they wrote, is unconsciounable.

As for "voodoo economics", I've never preached on Ronald Reagan. I'm not an economist, I'm a man of God.

Fair enough, but the Christian Right and the Republicans have made an unholy alliance. They support Christian fundametalism and their constituents vote for candidates who take money from the Koch brothers and other billionaires to keep their taxes low while balancing the budget on the backs of the poor, the middle class, and the soon-to-be poor, including the religious right.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: The case for atheism

I first addressed these questions to Pastor Ezekiel, who has not yet responded, but I will address the answers I got back. I think the Pastor would agree with them.

Three questions:
1. Does all of your information about God's will and God's plan come from the Bible, including the validation of the Bible itself as an authority?

No, it's verified by external reality. For instance, the Bible says that God created the Earth, and, lo and behold, the Earth exists, exactly as the Bible says it should. If any Christian opinion seems to clash with the secular "facts", you can be sure that's just Satan up to one of his tricks. Or God testing you. Can you find any single statement about God that you believe to be factually incorrect that cannot be explained by Satan playing tricks or else by God testing you?

The Earth exists but where is the evidence that it was created by God? You can invoke Satan to account for any opinion you disagree with but that does not excuse you from checking it out for yourself. You can speculate that God passively-aggressively planted false clues to the origin of the universe, but the best and the brightest among us will follow down paths true believers are content to leave alone. Both God and Satan are Biblical concepts and I see no evidence they exist outside the Bible.

2. If God is the answer to all the questions about the universe that I can't
answer, what is the answer to God? Where did God come from?

God isn't a question. He is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from?

The Big Bang is not a question. It is eternal. Sounds silly to you, I know, but it is no more silly than "God isn't a question." In other words, "Don't ask." I say, instead, "ask every question, but don't expect them all to be answered; keep digging." Meanwhile "Man must dare to live with unanswered questions." "God always existed," is a quick and easy answer with another deep and profound question behind it.

3. What is a chanukistani terrorist?

Are all Canadians as thick as you?

I'm guessing that Brother Enoch is a Canadian and not proud of it. I am also guessing that "chanukistani" is your church's word for Canadian. I am not Canadian. As Charlie Chaplin said when a Nazi sympathiser asked him if was a Jew: "I'm sorry, I do not have the privilege."

Canada is in many ways a more progressive country than the U.S., including its single-payer health care system. If I were a Canadian, I would be proud, but I am a (U.S.) Southerner. I am proud of my Southern roots but not its racist heritage.

Brother Enoch has repented of his Canadistani heritage many times and is largely considered an honorary American. You'd know that if you bothered to get to know people before launching personal attacks against them.

What personal attacks?

Now I've got a question for you: if God isn't real, who gave Christopher Hitchens cancer?

There is no "who." The notion that God uses disease to punish people for their sins is ignorant, hateful, and barbaric. Ask Hitchens's doctors what caused his cancer and they will give you the best answer that modern medical science has to offer. In a few decades they will no doubt have learned enough to head off such diseases, but not, I am sure, without using science your church disapproves of.

[Didymus Much]

Re: The case for atheism

...The notion that God uses disease to punish people for their sins is ignorant, hateful, and Biblically correct..

Fixed that for ya.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: The case for atheism

I first addressed these questions to Pastor Ezekiel, who has not yet responded, but I will address the answers I got back. I think the Pastor would agree with them.





The Earth exists but where is the evidence that it was created by God? You can invoke Satan to account for any opinion you disagree with but that does not excuse you from checking it out for yourself. You can speculate that God passively-aggressively planted false clues to the origin of the universe, but the best and the brightest among us will follow down paths true believers are content to leave alone. Both God and Satan are Biblical concepts and I see no evidence they exist outside the Bible.





The Big Bang is not a question. It is eternal. Sounds silly to you, I know, but it is no more silly than "God isn't a question." In other words, "Don't ask." I say, instead, "ask every question, but don't expect them all to be answered; keep digging." Meanwhile "Man must dare to live with unanswered questions." "God always existed," is a quick and easy answer with another deep and profound question behind it.




I'm guessing that Brother Enoch is a Canadian and not proud of it. I am also guessing that "chanukistani" is your church's word for Canadian. I am not Canadian. As Charlie Chaplin said when a Nazi sympathiser asked him if was a Jew: "I'm sorry, I do not have the privilege."

Canada is in many ways a more progressive country than the U.S., including its single-payer health care system. If I were a Canadian, I would be proud, but I am a (U.S.) Southerner. I am proud of my Southern roots but not its racist heritage.



What personal attacks?



There is no "who." The notion that God uses disease to punish people for their sins is ignorant, hateful, and barbaric. Ask Hitchens's doctors what caused his cancer and they will give you the best answer that modern medical science has to offer. In a few decades they will no doubt have learned enough to head off such diseases, but not, I am sure, without using science your church disapproves of.

Even if you accept the silly big bang theory all it does is prove the existence of God.

Everything that brings to exist has a cause.

The 'universe' began to exist.
Scientists say that time started at the big bang.
Therefore the cause must be outside of the constraints of time.
The only thing that is timeless is God.
Therefore God was the cause.

And before you say 'but where did God come from? ' remember I said any thing that begins to exist has a cause'. God did not begin to exist.



2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

YIC

Jack

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: The case for atheism

9

I first addressed these questions to Pastor Ezekiel, who has not yet responded, but I will address the answers I got back. I think the Pastor would agree with them.





The Earth exists but where is the evidence that it was created by God? You can invoke Satan to account for any opinion you disagree with but that does not excuse you from checking it out for yourself. You can speculate that God passively-aggressively planted false clues to the origin of the universe, but the best and the brightest among us will follow down paths true believers are content to leave alone. Both God and Satan are Biblical concepts and I see no evidence they exist outside the Bible.





The Big Bang is not a question. It is eternal. Sounds silly to you, I know, but it is no more silly than "God isn't a question." In other words, "Don't ask." I say, instead, "ask every question, but don't expect them all to be answered; keep digging." Meanwhile "Man must dare to live with unanswered questions." "God always existed," is a quick and easy answer with another deep and profound question behind it.




I'm guessing that Brother Enoch is a Canadian and not proud of it. I am also guessing that "chanukistani" is your church's word for Canadian. I am not Canadian. As Charlie Chaplin said when a Nazi sympathiser asked him if was a Jew: "I'm sorry, I do not have the privilege."

Canada is in many ways a more progressive country than the U.S., including its single-payer health care system. If I were a Canadian, I would be proud, but I am a (U.S.) Southerner. I am proud of my Southern roots but not its racist heritage.



What personal attacks?



There is no "who." The notion that God uses disease to punish people for their sins is ignorant, hateful, and barbaric. Ask Hitchens's doctors what caused his cancer and they will give you the best answer that modern medical science has to offer. In a few decades they will no doubt have learned enough to head off such diseases, but not, I am sure, without using science your church disapproves of.

Even if you accept the silly big bang theory all it does is prove the existence of God.

Everything that began to exist has a cause.

The 'universe' began to exist.
Scientists say that time started at the big bang.
Therefore the cause must be outside of the constraints of time.
The only thing that is timeless is God.
Therefore God was the cause.

And before you say 'but where did God come from? ' remember I said everything that begins to exist has a cause'. God did not begin to exist.



2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

YIC

Jack

[davidbrainfart]

Re: The case for atheism

Even if you accept the silly big bang theory all it does is prove the existence of God.

Everything that began to exist has a cause.

The 'universe' began to exist.
Scientists say that time started at the big bang.
Therefore the cause must be outside of the constraints of time.
The only thing that is timeless is God.
Therefore God was the cause.

And before you say 'but where did God come from? ' remember I said everything that begins to exist has a cause'. God did not begin to exist.

Where did God come from? I take it you mean he always existed, but how and why? In the material world in which we live, human intelligence is a manifestation of one of the most complex creatures alive. How did something at least as complex as that (God) always exist? I think your answer is "Don't Ask." If God did not require a creator, I can just as easily say the Universe did not require a creator.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: The case for atheism

...The notion that God uses disease to punish people for their sins is ignorant, hateful, and

Biblically correct..
Fixed that for ya.

I'll accept the correction. Another reason to doubt the Bible.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: The case for atheism

Where did God come from? I take it you mean he always existed, but how and why? In the material world in which we live, human intelligence is a manifestation of one of the most complex creatures alive. How did something at least as complex as that (God) always exist? I think your answer is "Don't Ask." If God did not require a creator, I can just as easily say the Universe did not require a creator.

And there's the rub: the basic premise of the Big Bang is accepted by "scientists" without review, with the only question being what was the catalyst for the bang, with nary a question about the big part (and even the drooling retard Stephen Hawkins says that "God might've been involved").

In other words: where did that indescribably dense initial mass come from? Secular Jesus-haters demand all sorts of proof from Christians, but get their panties in a bunch when the same exact questions are posed to them.

Why is that? Where is the Book of Genesis for scientists? What are they afraid of?



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: The case for atheism

But we know everything had a Creator.

Genesis 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God doesn't need a Creator, He is the Creator and He always has been.

For a moment let's assume that God create Himself at a specific moment in time . Now what went before that? There would have been no time existing for God to start the process of existing. You just have to keep pushing the problem further back. The only LOGICAL conclusion is that God is eternal. So a LOGICAL modern thought process yet again supports the Bible account.

Now an eternal God could easily have created the heavens and the Earth and that is exactly what He did.

GLORY!

Jack