ForGodsSake this is for you ;)

[LyingDingDong]

May i ask you (if you have the intelligence to do so that is) And i know it so you look at it and read it carefully. 2 Corinthians 4.4, That the god of this world has blinded the eye's of the unbelievers. Pay close attention to this heaven.. You may also be one who is counted as one who misleads and sin against the HOLY Spirit. And if you please start a thread about evolution and i will gladly debate it with you.

I believe in evolution and although I can't prove it, I don't believe in God and give very little credibility to His existence.

Apparently I may not have the intelligence - as some of you have inferred - to argue points, but I hope you have the intelligence to argue your opinion.

[ForGodsSake]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

but I hope you have the intelligence to argue your opinion.

I see this will take a while as i intend to give you the full extent of the creation theory(Evolution or Creation).When all is done then you make your choice friend. I will begin soon with what it is all about. Hopefully then you will know that the LORD is the LORD not some made up evolution heathen excuse for a way out .

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

I see this will take a while as i intend to give you the full extent of the creation theory(Evolution or Creation).When all is done then you make your choice friend. I will begin soon with what it is all about. Hopefully then you will know that the LORD is the LORD not some made up evolution heathen excuse for a way out .

Round 1 goes to Brother FGS. He has been washed by the sweet cleansing blood of Jesus and is already speaking through the power of the Holy Ghost.

[ForGodsSake]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

Creationism and evolutionism begin from two radically different points. Creation: In the beginning there was God. Evolution: In the beginning there was random chance.

Darwinian doctrine insists that the evolution of life is a random process—that we are here by a series of pure accidents (e.g., mutations, and molecules in motion, gene recombinations and duplications). This is in direct conflict with the biblical doctrine of election—that life is not merely a series of accidents. According to the Bible, each believer is in some sense individually foreknown and chosen by God from before the foundations of the world. (1 Samuel 16:7-12, Psalm 139:16, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 24:31, 25:34, Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Galatians 1:15, Ephesians 1:4-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9)



The God of the Bible is more than Creator and Savior. He is also Sustainer. With evolution, life is a self-sustaining process ruled by fate, and God plays no role in the universe or in the ongoing lives of men. This contradicts the biblical doctrine of providence—that all things happen under the authority of God, and that God is still at work sustaining (though not re-creating) His creation. (Genesis 45:7-8, Nehemiah 9:6, Esther 4:14, Psalm 104:30, 145:16, 147:9, Proverbs 16:9,33, Isaiah 45:1,7, 46:10, Matthew 6:26, 10:29-31, John 5:17, 14:16-17, 15:26, 16:13-15, Acts 17:26, 18:9-11, Romans 8:9-11, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3)


Still another aspect of the God of the Bible is that He is Judge. The Bible makes a major point of an afterlife in heaven or hell. Indeed, Jesus discusses this concept more than any other biblical figure. As part of the process of ultimate judgment by God, a new type of resurrection body will emerge to another life—to either be glorified in heaven or condemned to hell for eternity. Evolution is in great conflict with this view, including the fact that the physical cannot evolve into an afterlife. (Matthew 5:22,29,30, 23:33, 24:31, Romans 8:23, 1 Corinthians 15:42-53, 2 Peter 2:4-10)



The Bible says that man was created as a special being—in the image of God, as opposed to the evolutionary view that has man is just another animal in the evolutionary process. (Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7)


The Bible indicates that creation was a completed event in the past, and is not continuing as evolution suggests. (Genesis 2:1-3, Ecclesiastes 3:14, Hebrews 4:3-11) As put by the Concordia Study Bible (annotations page 8), "His creative work was completed—and it was totally effective, absolutely perfect, 'very good.' It did not have to be repeated, repaired or revised, and the Creator rested to commemorate it."


Given the above, the creation by God of distinct "kinds" as described in Genesis 1 and 1 Corinthians 15:38-39 implies that transmutations between kinds is precluded, or at least superfluous.



The Bible indicates that there is clear physical evidence of creation. (Psalm 19:1-6, Acts 17:24-29) Evolution denies the evidence for creation. If Darwinism were a reasonable hypothesis, atheists would have a perfectly good excuse, in contradiction to Romans 1:20. On the other hand, creation is a consistent theme throughout the Bible.



There is no hint of evolution in the Bible. While this is an argument from silence and thus does not necessarily preclude evolution, such an important concept as to origins would surely have been suggested in the Bible due to its theological implications. On the other hand, creation is a consistent theme throughout the Bible. It is mentioned approximately 64 times in 18 books of the Bible.


Evolution is a philosophy based on naturalism and materialism. Naturalism holds that nature is all there is and that the universe is self-sufficient without a supernatural cause or control of the world. Materialism regards matter as the original cause of all—that matter did its own creating. Materialism denies the existence of the soul. The philosophical assumption of evolution is therefore essentially atheistic or agnostic, thus clearly incompatible with special creation and the other miracles of the Bible. With evolution, if God exists, He is so distant as to be irrelevant.


The Bible teaches that God created man by fiat, that is, by supernatural power, not by natural processes. (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 33:6,9, Psalm 148:5, 2 Corinthians 4:6, Hebrews 11:3)


Some 75 passages of Scripture including those by Jesus, refer to the creation narrative of Genesis 1-2, confirming it as actual history. (Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6, Luke 3:38, Rev. 2:7)


Evolution appears to be contrary to God's characteristics of omnipotence, love, and grace. As put by Henry Morris in his book Scientific Creationism (page 219), "The history of evolution, as interpreted by evolutionary geologists from the fossil record, is filled with extinctions, misfits, evolutionary cul-de-sacs, and other like evidences of very poor planning. The very essence of evolution, in fact, is random mutation, not scientific progress. The supposed fact of evolution is best evidenced by the fossils, which eloquently speak of a harsh world, filled with storm and upheaval, disease and famine, struggle for existence and death. The accepted mechanism for inducing evolution is overpopulation and a natural selection through extermination of the weak and unfit. A loving God would surely have been more considerate of His creatures than this." The biblical interpretation of the fossil record is that species were created suddenly and fully functional. Only after creation and the Fall into sin did struggle and extinctions occur. In fact, the biblical view of the fossil record is more scientifically as well as theologically accurate


There is an important reason to interpret from the Bible that Adam was a real person. Unless the concept of original sin through Adam is true, Jesus' coming makes no sense. That is, Christians believe that Christ's atoning sacrifice for our sins was necessary because of man's sin nature inherited in some sense from Adam. The Bible teaches that Jesus was the "second Adam." So if Adam was not real, thus did not bring sin into the world, Christ's redemptive sacrifice was not necessary. (Genesis 3:15-19, Romans 4:22-25, 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,45-57, 1 Timothy 2:13-14). Annotations in the Concordia Study Bible (page 1724) state: "Physical death is the penalty for sin. It is also the symbol of spiritual death, man's ultimate separation from God. The context shows that Adam's sin involved the rest of mankind in condemnation and death. We do not start life with even the possibility of living it sinlessly; we begin it with a sinful nature."


The overarching theme of the Bible is Creation/Fall/Redemption. (God created the universe "very good." Then man spoiled it by his rebellion—the "Fall", necessitating God's redemption of mankind through Christ.) This sequence is crucial to Christian theology. We argue that evolution, which is explained as a gradual process of step-by-step change, is inconsistent with this biblical doctrine. Here are some questions to consider: Did God really create things bad (incomplete or filled with struggle and death), not "very good" as the Bible says (Genesis 1:31)? If things were bad to start with, the Fall becomes a superfluous concept. (The Fall presupposes that there was something good from which to fall.) Or if the Fall did occur, and if man evolved gradually with no clear point of distinctive existence, when did the Fall occur? According to Scripture, between the time of the completion of Creation and the Fall everything was very good, and only after which there was sin and death for mankind (Romans 5:12). Did the so-called "ape-men" that evolutionists keep hoping to find in the fossil record experience sin and death? Only if there is a distinct line between man and any predecessors does the Fall make any sense, because Christians believe that man, not animals, created the sinful condition we know as the Fall. Thus, a major point of tension exists between the Bible and evolution at the heart of the biblical doctrine of the Fall.

Evolutionism, indeed, denies that man even has a sinful nature or else suggests that we should not be faulted for our human nature because "that is just our nature." Thus evolution is inconsistent with the Christian belief that man is indeed fallen and in need of a savior.


The theory of evolution itself has continually changed over time. This is in contrast to biblical creationism, which has not changed over time.


Morality in evolutionary thought is a function of natural selection, survival of the fittest, or situation ethics. The Bible teaches transcending moral truth, given by God. (Exodus 20:1-17, Isaiah 5:20-21)


Evolution is closely associated with the philosophy of secular humanism, which accepts human beings as the ultimate source of meaning and value. The Bible, of course, places God as the ultimate source of meaning and value.


The Bible teaches that man was created for a special purpose. Evolution denies that man has a divine purpose, or at least implies that man's purpose in life is whatever one wants to make of it (secular humanism). (Isaiah 43:7, Jeremiah 29:11, Matthew 6:10, Romans 8:28, 14:12, Galatians 1:15, Ephesians 2:10, 3:21, 2 Timothy 1:9, 1 Peter 4:10)



Since evolution offers no real purpose for life, it results in an absence of meaning, and therefore an absence of moral absolutes. This is clearly in conflict with the Bible. Evolution results in a philosophy of nihilism (the denial of any basis for truth), which ultimately ends in despair. The Bible claims to have the Truth, which gives ultimate hope. (John 14:6, Colossians 1:27)


The Bible not only fits the evidence of scientific investigation, it provides an answer for why the world was created. Evolution does neither.

[ForGodsSake]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

Well, Still waiting lingblingdingdong.

[LyingDingDong]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

I'm sorry to not answering your post, I have been busy with homework, most of it, ironically, is AP Biology.

Before we go on let's assume that the Bible has no credibility as evidence. I know this is hard for you because in your mind the Bible is all truth, but from my perspective I believe it's nonsense. And I will not be convinced by any scriptures from the Bible.

Evolution appears to be contrary to God's characteristics of omnipotence, love, and grace.

That is a contradiction. God can not be omnipotent and omnibenovelent.

As put by Henry Morris in his book Scientific Creationism (page 219), "The history of evolution, as interpreted by evolutionary geologists from the fossil record, is filled with extinctions, misfits, evolutionary cul-de-sacs, and other

like evidences of very poor planning. The very essence of evolution, in fact, is random mutation, not scientific progress..."

The very essence of evolution is genetic recombination not random mutation. Random mutation is only evolutionary beneficial to bacteria and some protists that reproduce rapidly.

The biblical interpretation of the fossil record is that species were created suddenly and fully functional. Only after creation and the Fall into sin did struggle and extinctions occur. In fact, the biblical view of the fossil record is more scientifically as well as theologically accurate.

Explain to me how the biblical view of the fossil record is more scientifically accurate than evolution and I will give you a cookie.

The theory of evolution itself has continually changed over time. This is in contrast to biblical creationism, which has not changed over time.

Evolution changes because new theories are proposed that better enhance the theory of natural selection. No evidence of biblical creationism means that there is nothing to contradict it.

The Bible not only fits the evidence of scientific investigation, it provides an answer for why the world was created.

Evolution does neither.

What use is an answer if it's wrong? For example, gravity, a phenmenon that no one knows why it exists, but it does. I could propose a theory that gravity occurs because millions of invisible men go around pushing every atom to the earth. This theory is obviously wrong, but you cannot disprove it.

Evolution doesn't answer why the world was here but the big bang theory does. (But that's for a different thread.)

[LyingDingDong]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

I'm sorry about some of the problems with the quotes. I couldn't quote accurately and no matter how hard I tried the system refused to corporate with me.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

I believe in evolution and although I can't prove it, I don't believe in God and give very little credibility to His existence.

Apparently I may not have the intelligence - as some of you have inferred - to argue points, but I hope you have the intelligence to argue your opinion.

Not only have you no intelligence, you do not know the difference between 'infer' and 'imply'. We INFER that you have no intelligence and IMPLY our inference to you. You may take that IMPLICATION and INFER that we have IMPLIED that you have no intelligence. Both of us will be correct.

Nothing else you write is worth reading since you do not understand what the words mean.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

That is a contradiction. God can not be omnipotent and omnibenovelent.

No it isn't God is so powerful He can create another being who is responsible for the malevolent parts of creation.

[LyingDingDong]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

No it isn't God is so powerful He can create another being who is responsible for the malevolent parts of creation.

Creating that being who is malevolent violates His omnibenevolence. If the being who is malevolent exists and God can not wish the being away, then he is not omnipotent. Contradiction.

[Nobar King]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

You must think you're really smart. Your specious logic tells you that. How is an idiot to know he's an idiot?

[Ali al-Rashid]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

An idiot is far too idiotic to be aware of his own idiocy.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

Creating that being who is malevolent violates His omnibenevolence. If the being who is malevolent exists and God can not wish the being away, then he is not omnipotent. Contradiction.

You're acting like God is restricted by human rules of logic? It really is this simple Ling; God is perfect; Why? Because He says so and He will burn anyone who says He an't. Further more God says all the nasty stuff is the fault of one of servants called Satan and anyone who says it isn't fault is going to get tossed into Hell with Satan. God created reality so He can say what the reality is.

[ForGodsSake]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

I'm sorry to not answering your post, I have been busy with homework, most of it, ironically, is AP Biology.

Before we go on let's assume that the Bible has no credibility as evidence. I know this is hard for you because in your mind the Bible is all truth, but from my perspective I believe it's nonsense. And I will not be convinced by any scriptures from the Bible.

You are not much of an evolutionist then are you sport. I new someone who was a great believer in evolution and did argue the point about the Bible, but one thing he did do was read and studied the Bible so he could get a perspective on what it was he was trying to debate about. You on the other hand say you do not believe or want to try and study what it is you are trying to argue about. It is always a good thing to have knowledge on both subjects so when you do try and make a debate about it you know what you are talking about. You have shown know knowledge on either. So next time you want to discuss it make sure you have an understanding of it all.

[LyingDingDong]

Re: ForGodsSake this is for you

You are not much of an evolutionist then are you sport. I new someone who was a great believer in evolution and did argue the point about the Bible, but one thing he did do was read and studied the Bible so he could get a perspective on what it was he was trying to debate about. You on the other hand say you do not believe or want to try and study what it is you are trying to argue about. It is always a good thing to have knowledge on both subjects so when you do try and make a debate about it you know what you are talking about. You have shown know knowledge on either. So next time you want to discuss it make sure you have an understanding of it all.

I do desire to read and study the bible, unfortunately I don't have the time to do so. All I need to know about the bible is that there is no evidence to back it up and people believe in it soley on faith.