[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

So bassically as long as we can find some cattorgory that people fall into we can persecute and kill to our hearts content?

Who told you that?

We should kill the people God tells us to kill. No more, no less.

Our own desires do not enter into the equation. Let me give you an example:

A member of my congregation -- we'll call him Jack -- was the most charming man. Well-dressed, thoughtful, intelligent, Jack seemed to walk every day in the light of Jesus. He was leader of the Men's Group, even.

One day, Jack came to me and informed me that he was divorcing his wife for another woman.

Since the Bible tells us to follow secular law, I did not lead his execution. I must admit, I was a bit happy to not be in Freehold, where it's legal to execute sinners; I rather liked Jack, and would have been hard pressed to take up a stone.

Instead, that Sunday, I gave a sermon on the punishment for adultery (stoning), and mentioned how lucky Jack (sitting in the third row as he was) was, that secular law was to be followed. My, Jack looked nervous as the other members glared at him!

I am happy to report that Jack was not stoned, but did decide to leave town suddenly and left no forwarding address. We believe he stole the pallet of bricks the Men's Group was using to lay a new patio, as they went missing at the same time he left town.

I thought a huge factor within christianity was about love rather than persecution.

Yes, the love of Jesus. We love Him enough to obey His every command; don't you?

Tell me, Grendel, have you ever READ the Bible, or are you just making things up?

Surely as we have all been given the faculty of reason by God we should use it?

Yes, we should use it to find more ways to apply God's Law. That's it.

It is not necessary to "reason" to OBEY.

those who do not follow Christ i fail to see any reason why they are lesser than us?

Because they're going to Hell. God says so. Read the Bible.

if you are just going to sit behind the trancendy of God as justification for the interpretations of Gods word you have maybe you should come up with a better arguement God is trancendent not you "get used to it". i mean do you feel that you are on par with God?

No, and neither are you. Therefore, you, like we, must get used to it. We OBEY, we do not decide for God what He "really" meant. If He wanted His book to say something other than what it says, HE WOULD CHANGE IT.

If we are going to come across ambiguity within the bibble then i feel that "thou Shalt not kill" is about as plain as it comes. I am perfectly aware of the destinction between murder and execution but both are an act of killing and thus are wrong, if you weant to get pedantic it does not actually state within that sentence stone to death, just blood on thier blood shall be upon them. So deciding that that means to kill them would be an interpreation but of course that conflicts with thou shalt not kill which of course would mean that you conclusion is null and void.

Really?

1. Leviticus 20:2
   Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
   
   
2. Leviticus 20:27
   A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
   
   
3. Leviticus 24:23
   And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.
   
   
4. Numbers 14:10
   But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.
   
   
5. Numbers 15:35
   And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
   
   
6. Numbers 15:36
   And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Plenty more where that came from, friend. Do you find any of that ambiguous?

If God wants to strike them down then that is Gods choice

It is God's choice to command us to do it. It is our duty to OBEY.

but of course i can not begin to fathom God choices as they are beyond any humans comprehension so i do not begin to,

GOOD! Now try reading His Word, so you may know what His choices ARE, instead of making up what you want them to be.

i mearly try and discern what he has left behind and was worried that like in Islam or any other religeon that christianity could be Warped and conveyed to others so that they would hurt people snd that would greatly sadden me.

Yes, Islam greatly saddens me, too. It should have been eliminated entirely during the Crusades.

Finally we are NOT slaves. We are fully able to go against Gods word and commit evil how ever we can choose to follow gods word that hardly makes us 'slaves' if we were slaves we would not be able to choose.

Slaves choose to obey. Those who choose to disobey are punished. We choose to obey God's Word. You choose not to. You will face the consequences when He drop-kicks you into His Lake of Fire for an eternity of torture.

Slaves are not automatons. Or would you say that your hip-hopping Negro neighbor is nothing but a robot?

Now i must appologise for what may have sounded as an impertinent post however i came here for assistance on a problem that worried me and was searching for other perspectives that would perhaps shine illumination on my problem. I did not come here to be looked down upon and have someone imply that i weas an idiot or fool.

It's difficult not to, when you tell us all about what God wants and what God thinks, when you've clearly never READ THE BOOK which TELLS you what God wants and what God thinks.

What would you call someone who does such a thing? Someone who presents his own opinions and desires as facts, when all he has to do to learn the True facts is open ONE SINGLE FREELY AVAILABLE BOOK?

Ah yes and can someone explain the qoute commands please? i must say i haver little experience on forums or blogs etc

Sure.

To quote an entire post, use the QUOTE button at the bottom of the individual post.

To quote segments of text, use the QUOTE button to insert the tags. It's on the toolbar at the top of your posting window, and looks like a little cartoon balloon.

Anything inside the quote tags (which look like [ quote ] and [ /quote ], with the spaces removed) is set off as a quote.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

[quote=Grendel;222146]To be absolutely honest i am willing to bet if you go through ANY book and set out to look for references to justify your means you canfind phrases which could justify Geonocide. [quote]
Justify? God commands genocide!

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

You see, here God demands that the people who turned from Him be utterly destroyed. All the non-virgin females and all the males are to be killed, and the little virgin girls to be raped.

And then answer this then, what about the problem of evil? God is Omnibenevolent and omnipotent yet evil exists.

Where are you coming up with this "omnibenevolent" nonsense? SHOW ME where in the BIBLE it says that God does not create evil!

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Joshua 23:15
Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

2 Samuel 12:11
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

1 Kings 9:9
And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

2 Kings 22:16
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:

The Lord God creates evil to punish those who do not follow His Word to the letter. This is why there is evil in the world!

Do you LIKE being punished, Grendel?

[s@ul77]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

So bassically as long as we can find some cattorgory that people fall into we can persecute and kill to our hearts content? I thought a huge factor within christianity was about love rather than persecution. Surely as we have all been given the faculty of reason by God we should use it? those who do not follow Christ i fail to see any reason why they are lesser than us? Anouther thing, you talk down to me as if i am ignorant of the langauge of English, I am not. My spoken english is more than ample and capable for the ability to convey my meaning across to people even if i strugle at times with it. AND if you are just going to sit behind the trancendy of God as justification for the interpretations of Gods word you have maybe you should come up with a better arguement God is trancendent not you "get used to it". i mean do you feel that you are on par with God? If we are going to come across ambiguity within the bibble then i feel that "thou Shalt not kill" is about as plain as it comes. I am perfectly aware of the destinction between murder and execution but both are an act of killing and thus are wrong, if you weant to get pedantic it does not actually state within that sentence stone to death, just blood on thier blood shall be upon them. So deciding that that means to kill them would be an interpreation but of course that conflicts with thou shalt not kill which of course would mean that you conclusion is null and void. If God wants to strike them down then that is Gods choice but of course i can not begin to fathom God choices as they are beyond any humans comprehension so i do not begin to, i mearly try and discern what he has left behind and was worried that like in Islam or any other religeon that christianity could be Warped and conveyed to others so that they would hurt people snd that would greatly sadden me. Finally we are NOT slaves. We are fully able to go against Gods word and commit evil how ever we can choose to follow gods word that hardly makes us 'slaves' if we were slaves we would not be able to choose.

• An excellent post, do not be fooled by those in these boards who are full of hate, they believe that they must murder, death, kill in the name of God, as many in the past have done.

• I agree "thou Shalt not kill" means exactly that and there are no excuses, but some have a different point of view, much like the extremist Muslims who go around killing innocent people because in their eyes "Allah" told them.

[list]They like to quote a sentence here and there to justify there belief, quite frankly is scary, there are many good Christian websites around they would be better placed to answer your question(s).[list]

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

• I agree "thou Shalt not kill" means exactly that and there are no excuses, but some have a different point of view, much like the extremist Muslims who go around killing innocent people because in their eyes "Allah" told them.

I believe that the Bible says differently, in many places. It's a shame that you hate God so much that you think you have the right to edit His Word.

Enjoy Hell, God-mocker.

[Jeanette]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

I think it's important to remember that the ENEMY is NOT the unbeliever but Satan who has designed a propraganda in this world to keep the lost from knowing God.

To say God loves only the believer is false because if it were not for the love of Christ noone would stand a chance in this life

Everyone of us are or were unbelievers at one time

Unthinking people like to justify hate towards the heathen by saying that the heathen is the ENEMY

This has promoted alot of hyprocritcy in our walk with life and it's caused alot of unnecessary things to happen

9 11 is a good example of that because the Arabians said that we, all of us Americans are "heathens." They felt that they were doing God a favor and they even prayed about it, I'm sure, thinking this suicide-mass destruction was somehow glorifying to God.

We all know it was NOT glorifying to God and I seriously doubt that those Arabians had ever truly accepted the Lord

God wanted them to just like He wants every unsaved person to find salvation

So - I get a little nervous when I hear people make blanket black and white statements.

Yes, if we don't accept Christ we go to hell and if we do we go to heaven

But we've got to remember that the ENEMY IS NOT THE UNBELIEVER and start treating the lost as God wants the lost to be treated

To make blanket love hate comments about this is to be just as bad as the Arabians were on 9 11 . . You think not? I think so.

Thank you.

[Jeanette]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

I don't think its ever in the directive will of God for anybody to kill somebody. God allows it sometimes out of His permissive will but I seriously doubt that God ever allows a murderer to live a long life. All murderers do is Satanically attack the Grace of God where ever they see it. I believe they can be saved though. I bet it takes some time but it can happen if the person wants it bad enough. I don't believe God ever gives orders to people to go kill so and so. That's just a bunch of bs, if you'll pardon my French, and it's what alot of warped psycotic dopeheads use to justify things. I'm sure that Mark Chapman felt "ordered" by God as he said that John Lennon was "venom". What a jerk. And yet, Lennon is dead and Chapman lives. Where is the justice, my friends?

[Ebenezer Wright]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

I don't think its ever in the directive will of God for anybody to kill somebody. God allows it sometimes out of His permissive will but I seriously doubt that God ever allows a murderer to live a long life. All murderers do is Satanically attack the Grace of God where ever they see it. I believe they can be saved though. I bet it takes some time but it can happen if the person wants it bad enough. I don't believe God ever gives orders to people to go kill so and so. That's just a bunch of bs, if you'll pardon my French, and it's what alot of warped psycotic dopeheads use to justify things. I'm sure that Mark Chapman felt "ordered" by God as he said that John Lennon was "venom". What a jerk. And yet, Lennon is dead and Chapman lives. Where is the justice, my friends?

Can you support this with some Bible verses please. I am not interested in your theories.

[Jeanette]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

I like you Rev. You're right on.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Just a little bit worried...

I don't think its ever in the directive will of God for anybody to kill somebody.

Have you ever read the Bible, dear? God orders us clearly to stone to death many types of sinners; Hellbound sodomites, adulterers, witches, fornicators, those who consult with spirits, and disobedient children, for a start. Sounds pretty directive to me.

I'm sure that Mark Chapman felt "ordered" by God as he said that John Lennon was "venom". What a jerk. And yet, Lennon is dead and Chapman lives. Where is the justice, my friends?

Yes, John Lennon was a jerk.

I haven't had the chance to discuss anything with Mark Chapman, but I do recall John Lennon's song, "Imagine". He tried to convince others that God isn't real. He was a false prophet, and was properly executed for his blasphemy.

There is the justice . . . God's Will is justice, as God defines what is just, not man.