[shert]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Meanwhile, Muslims all across Europe are trying to institute "Sharia Law" in their little enclaves, so they can stone and gang-rape women who commit the horrible sin of being raped by someone else, or demanding a say in whom they marry.

My, what a peaceful religion.

First I want to clear something:
If a woman get raped, she will not be punished. However, the person who raped her will be punished with death.
Stoning in Islam has regulations. Single people who commit adultery will be punished with physical punishment, 100 whips I think, and Married people who commit adultery will be punished with stoning to death.

Second, hypothetically, if demanding a say in whom your daughter get married to is something bad as you claim. Then what about people who consider their daughters as property!! Then SELL them whenever they see fit!!

You see at the beginning I had a lot of respect to you guys, because you guys do your best'est to follow the Bible. Because it shows dedication. Well, Muslims are dedicated to follow the Koran. If doing your best to follow your book is bad, as you made it sound, then stop using the Bible.

[shert]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

So.. you need two sources?
One (the Qu'ran) must be incomplete then. Otherwise, why would you need two?
Incomplete = Imperfect. Thus the Qu'ran is imperfect with 100% probability.

If the Qu'ran was complete, everything about "the prophet" would have been included allready wouldn't it?
Thus it is incomplete by fact and your own admitting so, and thus imperfect.

SalvationSeeker:
Thats a nice piece of arguments, let me test it and see if it is valid.

Dr. Davidson:
You said: and I quote:
Reguarding your post of scripture. Yes is does say that we should kill whoever would try to get us to worship false gods, but God told us to follow secular laws. Killing someone is illegal right now in America, so we can only try to show them the error of their ways.

Let me respond to you using SalvationSeeker logic.


So.. you need two sources?
One (the Bible) must be incomplete then. Otherwise, why would you need two?
Incomplete = Imperfect. Thus the Bible is imperfect with 100% probability.

If the Bible was complete, everything about "Secular Laws" would have been included allready wouldn't it?
Thus it is incomplete by fact and your own admitting so, and thus imperfect.

SalvationSeeker:
You see, I copy/paste your argument and replaced Koran with Bible, Hadith with Secular Laws.
The Koran told us to follow Muhammed, The Bible told you to follow Secular Laws.
To compare:
We have two fixed sources, you guys have 1 fixed source (Bible) and 1 changing source all the time (secular laws).
Also, what the Koran told us to follow, Muhammed, doesn't contradict with Koran.
However, the Bible told you to follow secular laws which you admit to be corrupted. The Bible says Homosexuality is abomination, and then the Bible says follow your secular laws, which permit Gay/Lesbian marriage!! I guess Homosexuality is allowed in Christianity!!

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

So.. you need two sources?
One (the Bible) must be incomplete then. Otherwise, why would you need two?
Incomplete = Imperfect. Thus the Bible is imperfect with 100% probability.

If the Bible was complete, everything about "Secular Laws" would have been included allready wouldn't it?
Thus it is incomplete by fact and your own admitting so, and thus imperfect.

Your logic is flawed. Secular laws are not part of Christianity. We do not quote them. Also, secular laws are the laws of nations, and differ from country to country. Your Hadith is a second book written to make up for the shortcomings of your first book.

You attempt to distract from the question, without success. If the Koran is perfect, why do you need the Hadith (a second holy book)?

Another question on my mind, of course, is why the all-powerful Allah was unable to make his prophet literate! After all, Mohammed didn't write anything himself because he couldn't. Was Allah unable to make Mohammed literate? Not very powerful, is he?

Hmm:

Mohammad grew up in Mecca in Arabia, belonging to the Quraysh tribe in charge of idol worship at the Kabah shrine, containing the black stone and at least 360 idols. The word for god or idol in Arabic is "ilah." Allah was the name for the main idol worshiped in Mecca. The name was probably originally derived from the two Arabic words "al" and "ilah", meaning "the god" or "the idol."

Allah was also used as THE PERSONAL NAME among the Arabs for the moon god. Its symbol was the crescent moon found on many idols from pre-Islamic Arabia. Every year there was a pilgrimage to Mecca to worship Allah at the black stone. People were taught to turn towards Mecca several times a day. One month every year, beginning and ending with the crescent moon, was dedicated to fasting.

[Hairy Homer]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Why do for force your women to wear circus tents then? I always assumed it was because mudslime females are hideously ugly and have moustaches by the age of 20...

I used to wonder the same, Gentle Pastor -- except for the bit about moustaches (incidentally, it is about the age twenty when many woman do have small moustaches. A bit of down or even something a bit more than mere down is not uncommon in women between pubescence and the early twenties. It usually disappears not long after that. And you rarely see it because most of them wax it off or pluck it or whatever).

But anyway, I was watching the Godless BBC one day and there was this interview with Indonesian university students. All of the young muslim women involved were wearing smart and fashionable (conservatively fashionable, I mean -- I don't mean that they had bare midriffs and their underclothes on display like the young western harlots) and spoke better English than crass colonials like yourself.

There was also a BBC news story about Muslim or Islamic Feminists, of which there are evidently quite a few around the world. (I must take my hat off to you True Christians™ in that you do seem to be the only people I have come across who know how to keep their women in control [this is largely why I come here -- to see if I can pick up a few pointers]).

Again these Islamic feminists where indistinguishable from and just as obnoxious as their western counterparts; and not dressed in tents. Nor were any of them spectacularly ugly. From what I have seen of southern Baptist women, I am not sure that you are in a good position to talk about women being hideously ugly. I believe that your Brother Dave never recovered fully from discovering that his wife was a man. That he couldn't tell the difference until six years into the marriage when he first tried to consumate it, doesn't surprise me.

There were some Baptist women on holiday here who went down to the beach to sun themselves. Greenpeace mistook them for whales, tied ropes to them, and tried to drag them into the sea. Their American accents were nothing like English and their cries for help only made bystanders more certain that these were creatures from the deep.

[Hairy Homer]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Your logic is flawed. Secular laws are not part of Christianity. We do not quote them. Also, secular laws are the laws of nations, and differ from country to country. Your Hadith is a second book written to make up for the shortcomings of your first book.

You attempt to distract from the question, without success. If the Koran is perfect, why do you need the Hadith (a second holy book)?

Another question on my mind, of course, is why the all-powerful Allah was unable to make his prophet literate! After all, Mohammed didn't write anything himself because he couldn't. Was Allah unable to make Mohammed literate? Not very powerful, is he?

Hmm: [/LEFT]

I guess the answer to that may be that he chose not to. Given that Allah is the God of Abraham, the same God as the Christian God, his ways being unfathomable to mortal man is to be expected.

Even if you disagree that Allah and the Christian God are the same, you will have to concede that they both move in mysterious ways, as does the Wiccan goat Goddess, who doesn't seem very powerful either.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

I guess the answer to that may be that he chose not to. Given that Allah is the God of Abraham, the same God as the Christian God, his ways being unfathomable to mortal man is to be expected.

Even if you disagree that Allah and the Christian God are the same, you will have to concede that they both move in mysterious ways, as does the Wiccan goat Goddess, who doesn't seem very powerful either.

Hmm . . . all-powerful creator of the universe, AND moon-god idol? No, I don't think Allah is the God of Abraham.

[shert]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Your logic is flawed. Secular laws are not part of Christianity. We do not quote them. Also, secular laws are the laws of nations, and differ from country to country. Your Hadith is a second book written to make up for the shortcomings of your first book.

You attempt to distract from the question, without success. If the Koran is perfect, why do you need the Hadith (a second holy book)?

Another question on my mind, of course, is why the all-powerful Allah was unable to make his prophet literate! After all, Mohammed didn't write anything himself because he couldn't. Was Allah unable to make Mohammed literate? Not very powerful, is he?

Hmm: [/left]

Secular laws are not part of Christianity, then why do you put your Bible aside and follow them??
The Bible says kill anyone who tries to make you follow false Gods, however, you guys don't. Because the Bible says follow secular laws!!
The Bible says Homosexuality is Abomination, but secular laws say its ok!!
You see, if you contradict the bible and don't kill those who preach about false Gods, because of secular laws, then why don't you contradict the bible, again, and allow homosexuality, because secular laws allow it??

Koran is the words of Gods, Hadith is the words of Mohammed. The Koran tells us to follow Hadith, so we do it. If Koran didn't tell us, then Hadith would have no value. We just value what the Koran teaches.

Is Hadith a second holy book?? No.
We read Koran in our prayers, not Hadith.
Reading Koran is a great deed, reading Hadith isn't.
You have to be clean to touch Koran, but not when touching or reading Hadith.
Memorizing and teaching Koran is a great deed, but not with Hadith.
Koran is only in Arabic, Hadith can be written in any language.

The point of making Mohammed illiterate is to show the miracle of Koran.
In Mosses era, people practiced magic. Mosses miracles were about Magic.
In Jesus era, people practiced medicine. Jesus miracles were about medicine and healing.
In Mohammed era, people practice poetry. Mohammed came with the Koran, and he was illiterate to show that it is impossible for an illiterate to come with such a thing.

The rest of what you have posted about moon god and stuff, we will dedicate a separate thread for it, when we finish this one.

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Let me respond to you using SalvationSeeker logic.
So.. you need two sources?
One (the Bible) must be incomplete then. Otherwise, why would you need two?
Incomplete = Imperfect. Thus the Bible is imperfect with 100% probability.

If the Bible was complete, everything about "Secular Laws" would have been included allready wouldn't it?
Thus it is incomplete by fact and your own admitting so, and thus imperfect.

Shert... I've tried to be nice. I haven't attacked you, or done anything more than to question you.

Here's a question for ya. Let's say that the rest of the world finally decices that the middle east needs to be turned into a parking lot because Islam tries to force itself on everyone. How would you feel about that?

You see, that what is happening in America. Feel good Christians and demoncrats are forcing laws on the True believers. It would be different if we were in the majority, but we're not.

Have you read the bible? God is a God of love when he is followed, and a God of war when he isn't. He remembers, and He will punish those we can not. There's symmetry there. So, following secualr laws as He commanded isn't so wrong after all.

Who don't Muslims follow Leviticus?

[Hairy Homer]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Secular laws are not part of Christianity, then why do you put your Bible aside and follow them??
The Bible says kill anyone who tries to make you follow false Gods, however, you guys don't. Because the Bible says follow secular laws!!
The Bible says Homosexuality is Abomination, but secular laws say its ok!!
You see, if you contradict the bible and don't kill those who preach about false Gods, because of secular laws, then why don't you contradict the bible, again, and allow homosexuality, because secular laws allow it??

Koran is the words of Gods, Hadith is the words of Mohammed. The Koran tells us to follow Hadith, so we do it. If Koran didn't tell us, then Hadith would have no value. We just value what the Koran teaches.

Is Hadith a second holy book?? No.
We read Koran in our prayers, not Hadith.
Reading Koran is a great deed, reading Hadith isn't.
You have to be clean to touch Koran, but not when touching or reading Hadith.
Memorizing and teaching Koran is a great deed, but not with Hadith.
Koran is only in Arabic, Hadith can be written in any language.

The point of making Mohammed illiterate is to show the miracle of Koran.
In Mosses era, people practiced magic. Mosses miracles were about Magic.
In Jesus era, people practiced medicine. Jesus miracles were about medicine and healing.
In Mohammed era, people practice poetry. Mohammed came with the Koran, and he was illiterate to show that it is impossible for an illiterate to come with such a thing.

The rest of what you have posted about moon god and stuff, we will dedicate a separate thread for it, when we finish this one.

You have pwned him there, Shert (again!). That an illiterate could come up with the Koran is much more impressive than that a team of England's very best scholars and writers could come up with the KJV1611!

Not, in case there is any misunderstanding, that I am a believer in any religion, I am not. I just think that you have scored a point in the debate there.

[Hairy Homer]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

You see, that what is happening in America. Feel good Christians and demoncrats are forcing laws on the True believers.

Perhaps there is a God... I certainly hope that if there is s/he is a Democrat rather than a Republican.

[shert]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Dr. Davidson, believe it or not, I enjoy debating with you and I would shake your hand for the way you present your points in a respectful way.

I am not here to call people names, or disrespect their religion. You see, I barely know anything about Christianity. Thats why most of the information I have is from you guys. Then I just apply what you guys taught me about Christianity.

You said:
Here's a question for ya. Let's say that the rest of the world finally decices that the middle east needs to be turned into a parking lot because Islam tries to force itself on everyone. How would you feel about that?

Well, we don't force Islam on anyone.

You said:
You see, that what is happening in America. Feel good Christians and demoncrats are forcing laws on the True believers. It would be different if we were in the majority, but we're not.

Muslims do their best'est to follow Islam, whether they are majority or not. When I first found this site, I was amazed that there are still Hard Core Christians who have passion for their religion no matter what. If you go up a few posts, you will see that I called other Christians hypocrites for choosing what to follow from the bible.

You Said:
Have you read the bible? God is a God of love when he is followed, and a God of war when he isn't. He remembers, and He will punish those we can not. There's symmetry there. So, following secualr laws as He commanded isn't so wrong after all.

You see in Islam, God is God of love, whether he is followed or not. Allah gave prisoners of war rights, He prohibited killing women and children, He prohibited killing animals, He prohibited destroying buildings or burning land, He even prohibited fighting men who don't fight or with no weapons.
On the other hand, when I read some verses of the bible, I see destroying and killing everything including women/infants/sucklings and even animals.

Then for you to come and post a few verses from the Koran that encourage us to fight the disbelievers and call these verses abomination!! What about the verses in the bible!!
You see, you have to be fair. You have to apply the same point of view or logic on both religions.

For example, Brother Temperance called Islam Barbaric because Islam teaches us to kill the animal that have been sexually assaulted, along with the person who assaulted the animal, Why did Brother Temperance say that?? Because the animal did nothing wrong.
Ok, now lets be fair and follow Brother Temperance point of view or logic. What wrong did the bastard do to deserve to be burned in Hell?? Even if you are not a bastard, but one of your ancestors, to the 10th generation, is a bastard, then you will burn in Hell!!

You see how you guys are being selective and sometimes make no sense. That it is barbaric to kill an animal that might have diseases because the animal did nothing wrong, and it is fair to send 10 generations to Hell just because one of their ancestor is a bastard!!

I am not here to say you are wrong, BECAUSE MY MAMA SAID SO. I just learning your religion from you guys and asking questions. And following your logic.

For example, when a true Christian says its someones fault for not being born white!!
I made a topic about this question, and still no one answered me on how to choose to be born white or not white!!

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

Perhaps there is a God... I certainly hope that if there is s/he is a Democrat rather than a Republican.

God would never spend money to form a committee, to decide what committee will decide what welfare programs to spend our Social security on.

God is like the Marine Corps. He says, "Jump," and we say, "How high Lord!" He tells us to wipe out a city, and we do it, no questions asked.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

You see at the beginning I had a lot of respect to you guys, because you guys do your best'est to follow the Bible. Because it shows dedication. Well, Muslims are dedicated to follow the Koran. If doing your best to follow your book is bad, as you made it sound, then stop using the Bible.

And that's the crucial difference: We follow the commands of the Lord Almighty, not a false demon moon-idol. That is why the Bible is good, but the Koran is not.

There was also a BBC news story about Muslim or Islamic Feminists, of which there are evidently quite a few around the world. (I must take my hat off to you True Christians™ in that you do seem to be the only people I have come across who know how to keep their women in control [this is largely why I come here -- to see if I can pick up a few pointers]).

Again these Islamic feminists where indistinguishable from and just as obnoxious as their western counterparts; and not dressed in tents. Nor were any of them spectacularly ugly.

You are clearly lying. The idea of any feminists not being spectacularly ugly is implausible enough, but tolerable-looking Islamic feminists? Pull the other one (and you are not to take that literally, you secular pervert!)

The point of making Mohammed illiterate is to show the miracle of Koran.
In Mosses era, people practiced magic. Mosses miracles were about Magic.
In Jesus era, people practiced medicine. Jesus miracles were about medicine and healing.
In Mohammed era, people practice poetry. Mohammed came with the Koran, and he was illiterate to show that it is impossible for an illiterate to come with such a thing.

Jesus WALKED ON WATER. There is no way you can claim that is about medicine. Likewise for duplicating fish and bread. Moses' and Jesus' miracles were about the power of God; Moo-ham-head's "miracles" were about being able to trick ignorant moon-worshippers into writing down myths about him.

Perhaps there is a God... I certainly hope that if there is s/he is a Democrat rather than a Republican.

Why would God favour the Antichrist party?

[shert]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

[quote=Brother Temperance;56386]And that's the crucial difference: We follow the commands of the Lord Almighty, not a false demon moon-idol. That is why the Bible is good, but the Koran is not.

I could say the very same thing here. We follow the true God, while you follow what a bunch of history-men agreed to collect and call KJV1611.
You see, The "I am write cuz my MAMA said so" logic doesn't work here.

Jesus WALKED ON WATER. There is no way you can claim that is about medicine. Likewise for duplicating fish and bread. Moses' and Jesus' miracles were about the power of God; Moo-ham-head's "miracles" were about being able to trick ignorant moon-worshippers into writing down myths about him.

Mohammed came with very many miracles. Moon worshipers, will come to that later once we finish this thread.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Dr. Davidson and Koran

SalvationSeeker:
Thats a nice piece of arguments, let me test it and see if it is valid.

If the Bible was complete, everything about "Secular Laws" would have been included allready wouldn't it?
Thus it is incomplete by fact and your own admitting so, and thus imperfect.

There is a huge difference there, secular laws is not statc, but always changing and varying with country.
That's why the only complete solution is to simply defy it as secular law ("the law of the king" or "worldy authority") because it covers all secular law, in all it's variations.
The Bible is perfect enough to recognize this fact, that's why God worded it so it would be timeless, that it would never change, but still always be current:
By not only including the secular law of the day, God ensured that it is ALWAYS correct and current, and yet not changing!
The true Lord God (not this "allah" character.) is omniscent & perfect like that, and so is His Word.


But the life of Moohamhead however, it is static, and unchanging.
It has already happened, and thus cannot be changed.
And thus it could easily have been included.


And if the Hadith isn't so important to you, then why can't you understand your religion without it?
Why MUST you have it to correctly interpretate your own religion?
You're contradicting yourself.

However, the Bible told you to follow secular laws which you admit to be corrupted. The Bible says Homosexuality is abomination, and then the Bible says follow your secular laws, which permit Gay/Lesbian marriage!! I guess Homosexuality is allowed in Christianity!!

Secular law says nothing about us having to marry fags in our Church, or even accepting them.
It only forbids us killing them.