[shert]

Re: Moon God

Again,

No proofs, but horrible sarcasm.

I didn't say I don't believe in the Holy Ghost. I just said that I don't understand how you guys call yourselves monotheists while you have 3 entities, each one of them is considered a God, they all co-exist, and they communicate with each others.

Then, you tell the world that you worship one God!!

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Moon God

Again,

No proofs, but horrible sarcasm.

I didn't say I don't believe in the Holy Ghost. I just said that I don't understand how you guys call yourselves monotheists while you have 3 entities, each one of them is considered a God, they all co-exist, and they communicate with each others.

Then, you tell the world that you worship one God!!

They are not three different manifestations of God, but all are one. Think of it this way if it helps you to understand.

Is God only one thing? He lives in the father, the son, and in the spirit of all. He is the protector, judge, and leader of us all.

Even Muslims believe that Jesus walked the earth. They believe he had no earthly mother, but that is beside the point. God created Jesus, and therefore was the father. Christianity differs from the Koran, in that we know that Jesus was the actual son of God. Jesus was the physical manifestation of God on earth, therefore they were one.

God has never appeared in physical form to humans. Even your Koran says that an angel came to Mohammed to tell him God's words. I would imagine, although I may be wrong, that if God appeared before a lowly human, that human would be incinerated by God's power. Humans have heard his voice though, and that is God speaking through the spirit.

Even you must know that nothing has just one side. Are you just one thing? I am a father, son, brother, cousin, uncle, ect.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Moon God

Thanks to all who posted in this topic, including those who use horrible sarcasm to prove themselves.

OnYourKnees & SalvationSeeker:
First, I went through your posts looking for Koran or Hadith quotes stating that Muslims follow a moon god. I found NONE.

Then I re-looked at these points you posted, I concluded the following proofs that Muslims worship a moon god.

Note: The links you posted indicated 260 idols around Ka'ba. Thats wrong, there were around 360 of them. All of them were destroyed by Mohammed.

Do you deny that Mohammed's tribe worshipped a moon god named Allah? Or will you give your usual response of "SO!!"?

1 - People of Arabia worshiped a moon God. SO!!
That doesn't make Muslims worship a moon God just because their ancestors did!! especially that you guys have failed to provide any Koran or Hadith quotes since Islam derives its laws from them.

Why would the authors of the Koran enter into it proofs that it was false? Don't be ridiculous.

3 - The moon symbol on mosques. SO!!

Can I say Christians worship crosses?? Because their life is full of it??
Can I say Christians worship colored glass!! Just because most, if not all, churches are decorated with it!!

The moon or crescent is meant for decoration. It has no holy value whatsoever.

A great refutation. "SO!!"

The symbol of the moon god named Allah that Mohammed's tribe worshipped just HAPPENED to carry into Islam. And there's apparently no explanation whatsoever for the use of the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam, it's just "decoration"?!

Christians do not worship any items, but use crosses to remind us of Jesus' great sacrifice of temporary death. (He was nailed to a cross, in case you didn't know.) Christian churches do not typically use stained glass; that is a Catholic thing, where they make pictures of "saints" in the glass. We are Christians, not Catholics.

4 - Muslims observe the month of Ramadan based on the moon cycle. SO!!

Muslims use the moon to determine the months of the year, does that make them worship the moon!!
Chinese people use the moon to determine the months of their year, does that make them worship the moon!!
And if I am not mistaken, the month January to December is based on the Sun. Does that make you worship the sun!!

Ah, again your great argument of "SO!!". It's so meaningful.

This is followed by, "someone else did something similar, so that means that it can't have any religious significance to Muslims!" Sorry. Not going to work.

You've also still not explained the significance of the crescent moon. Surely it's there for a reason.

6 - Arabs were

pagans and polytheists before Islam. SO!!

Again, "SO!!" is your great refutation.

I'm not convinced.

Well, sorry, I don't believe in something just because someone said so.

You certainly do. You believe what the Koran says, based on what someone claims that an illiterate named Mohammed said.

How do you even know that Mohammed said the things in the Koran? He couldn't read or write, and could not in any way proofread what was being written!

Yet you believe it.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

They are not three different manifestations of God, but all are one. Think of it this way if it helps you to understand.

Is God only one thing? He lives in the father, the son, and in the spirit of all. He is the protector, judge, and leader of us all.

Even Muslims believe that Jesus walked the earth. They believe he had no earthly mother, but that is beside the point. God created Jesus, and therefore was the father. Christianity differs from the Koran, in that we know that Jesus was the actual son of God. Jesus was the physical manifestation of God on earth, therefore they were one.

Yes we believe that Jesus walked the earth. And you are wrong to say he had no earthly mother. His mother was Mary, thats why he is refered to as Jesus the son of Mary in the Koran.
God created Jesus, which makes him a creator.

God has never appeared in physical form to humans. Even your Koran says that an angel came to Mohammed to tell him God's words. I would imagine, although I may be wrong, that if God appeared before a lowly human, that human would be incinerated by God's power. Humans have heard his voice though, and that is God speaking through the spirit.

Are you saying there is one God, who shape shift into three forms(father, son, spirit)?? If you say that, then it would make sense.

However, in our case, we have three things, each one is God, each one co-exist with others, each one can communicate with the others!! How is that one God??

Even you must know that nothing has just one side. Are you just one thing? I am a father, son, brother, cousin, uncle, ect.

Yes I am one thing that is a father, at the same time a son, at the same time a brother, at the same time cousin, uncle, boss, citizen.

You are one thing too. There is only one Dr. Davidson. There are no Davidson the Son, father, cousin, brother, boss, uncle etc.. They are all you. THEY DON"T CO-EXIST.

I think that covers your points.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Do you deny that Mohammed's tribe worshipped a moon god named Allah? Or will you give your usual response of "SO!!"?

Yes, I deny that Mohammed tribes worshiped a God Named Allah, as I mentioned before, they worshiped up to 360 idols, each one of them considered "ALILAH" which means "The God"


Why would the authors of the Koran enter into it proofs that it was false? Don't be ridiculous.
What do you mean here??


A great refutation. "SO!!"

I am saying "SO!!" because I don't see the point you are making!!

The symbol of the moon god named Allah that Mohammed's tribe worshipped just HAPPENED to carry into Islam. And there's apparently no explanation whatsoever for the use of the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam, it's just "decoration"?!

Christians do not worship any items, but use crosses to remind us of Jesus' great sacrifice of temporary death. (He was nailed to a cross, in case you didn't know.) Christian churches do not typically use stained glass; that is a Catholic thing, where they make pictures of "saints" in the glass. We are Christians, not Catholics.


Ah, again your great argument of "SO!!". It's so meaningful.
I am saying "SO!!" because I don't see the point you are making!!

This is followed by, "someone else did something similar, so that means that it can't have any religious significance to Muslims!" Sorry. Not going to work.

I am just using your logic. How come your logic works on us, but doesn't work Chinese?? Or you??
Or are you saying that your logic is incorrect??

You've also still not explained the significance of the crescent moon. Surely it's there for a reason.

To be honest, I don't know the significance of the crescent moon.

Again, "SO!!" is your great refutation.
I am saying "SO!!" because I don't see the point you are making!!
I'm not convinced.
I keep saying "SO!!" because all your arguments make no sense at ALL. I am saying "SO!!" because I want more explanations of the proofs you have provided.

You certainly do. You believe what the Koran says, based on what someone claims that an illiterate named Mohammed said.

How do you even know that Mohammed said the things in the Koran? He couldn't read or write, and could not in any way proofread what was being written!

Yet you believe it.

Thats the miracle of Islam. Arabia was famous of Literature and Poetry. God sent an illiterate man to challenge them with the words of God.
I believe the Koran, because it makes full sense, fair, logical, scientific and doesn't contradict with common sense.

After I addressed all your points, lets try this experiment.

Go to your Church, get a cross from there and bring it.
I will do the same, I will go to a mosque that has a crescent moon and bring it.

Then, each should disrespect the item. Disrespecting the item shows that it has no holy value whatsoever.

For example, I can through the crescent moon in the sewer system. Will that prove to you that it has no value whatsoever??

Will you do the same to the cross??



Finally,
Let me tell you something that will end this really quick. Bring me a Koranic verse or a saying of the prophet that says we worship a moon God, and I will leave Islam as soon as I verify the proof, will that work for you?? I am sure this is an easy task for you since your are very sure about my religion than I am.


If you cannot do the above, then please, please, please make sense with your arguments so I don't have to keep saying "SO".

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Moon God

Look, shermhead..
We don't need to use your satanic qu'ran to prove anything:
Because the proof presented here predates it.

Arabic pagan moon worshippers used the crescent moon as a symbol, and so do muslims.

Mohammed claimed that Kaba truly "belonged" to "allah" but nobody had heard of such a "god" before Mohammed's preachings.
And as widely known, the Kaba was a site for worship of Hubal (it "belonged" to him) and he was a moon god.

The rites performed at the Kaba when worshipping Hubal were IDENTICAL to what muslims do there today.


Can you deny such blaring similiarites and still be sane? Not really.
Realize that you've been lied to and that you are NOT worshipping the true God;
But a demon idol set up by satan to lead you into hell.
You simply worship Hubal, you've only renamed him "God".. But that doesn't make him God.

Claiming otherwise is as silly as claiming that if one were to be a Buddhist in practice, and worship buddha:
That person could honestly call themselves a Christian.

REPENT PAGAN! REPENT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Look, shermhead..
We don't need to use your satanic qu'ran to prove anything:
Because the proof presented here predates it.

Arabic pagan moon worshippers used the crescent moon as a symbol, and so do muslims.

Mohammed claimed that Kaba truly "belonged" to "allah" but nobody had heard of such a "god" before Mohammed's preachings.
And as widely known, the Kaba was a site for worship of Hubal (it "belonged" to him) and he was a moon god.

The rites performed at the Kaba when worshipping Hubal were IDENTICAL to what muslims do there today.


Can you deny such blaring similiarites and still be sane? Not really.
Realize that you've been lied to and that you are NOT worshipping the true God;
But a demon idol set up by satan to lead you into hell.
You simply worship Hubal, you've only renamed him "God".. But that doesn't make him God.

Claiming otherwise is as silly as claiming that if one were to be a Buddhist in practice, and worship buddha:
That person could honestly call themselves a Christian.

REPENT PAGAN! REPENT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

OnYourKnees:
Here is another proof that Arabs didn't worship an idol called "ALLAH" before Islam.

SlavationSeeker:
We haven't finished discussing whether ALLAH is a moon God, and now you are claiming that He is a Demon God!!!


Also,
you have to use the Quran to prove something about Islam, as you know, Islam uses Quran and Hadith as its sources.

You see, I can prove Christianity is wrong by using Evolution, or Spider-man Comics, but thats not intelligent because you guys don't believe in either. So, I am not using them. I am using the resources you approve of, like the Bible.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Moon God

SlavationSeeker:
We haven't finished discussing whether ALLAH is a moon God, and now you are claiming that He is a Demon God!!!

Your "allah" is a demon who, in the past, was worshipped as a moon god.
Now you think he is God, but he is still the same ol' demon.

Also,
you have to use the Quran to prove something about Islam, as you know, Islam uses Quran and Hadith as its sources.

No, you see.. I don't.

I can prove that Islam uses the exact same rites at the Kaba as the pagans did, without using the Qu'ran.
Because those practices predates Islam.

I can prove that Hubal was worshipped at the Kaba before "allah" was, without the Qu'ran.
Because before Muhammed, NOBODY attributed Kaba to this "allah" charcater.

I can also prove that the pagan moon worshippers used the crescent moon as a symbol, before you did.. without the Qu'ran.
Because that's a historic fact, predating Islam.


Do you need to use the Qu'ran to prove the existance of, let's say, Babylon? (ie it has existed.)
No, of course not. So why would I need the Qu'ran to prove anything about religions PREDATING the Qu'ran?
I DON'T.

You're not being logical in the least. But you're only trying to weasel your way out of this.

You see, I can prove Christianity is wrong by using Evolution, or Spider-man Comics, but thats not intelligent because you guys don't believe in either. So, I am not using them. I am using the resources you approve of, like the Bible.

Two big problems with this argument:
1. Evolution is a THEORY, and it isn't proven.
2. Spider man comics are fiction.

Lousy example, friend!

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Your "allah" is a demon who, in the past, was worshipped as a moon god.
Now you think he is God, but he is still the same ol' demon.



No, you see.. I don't.

I can prove that Islam uses the exact same rites at the Kaba as the pagans did, without using the Qu'ran.
Because those practices predates Islam.

I can prove that Hubal was worshipped at the Kaba before "allah" was, without the Qu'ran.
Because before Muhammed, NOBODY attributed Kaba to this "allah" charcater.

I can also prove that the pagan moon worshippers used the crescent moon as a symbol, before you did.. without the Qu'ran.
Because that's a historic fact, predating Islam.


Do you need to use the Qu'ran to prove the existance of, let's say, Babylon? (ie it has existed.)
No, of course not. So why would I need the Qu'ran to prove anything about religions PREDATING the Qu'ran?
I DON'T.

You're not being logical in the least. But you're only trying to weasel your way out of this.



Two big problems with this argument:
1. Evolution is a THEORY, and it isn't proven.
2. Spider man comics are fiction.

Lousy example, friend!

Fair enough, but you said that we worship Moon God. All I have seen is stupid observations made by Islam haters, like:

You use the moon to predict your month cycles, so you worship the moon.
We know Chinese people use the moon too, but they it is a different case.

You use crescent on your mosque, so you worship the moon.
We also use the Cross on ALL OF OUR LIVES, but thats a different case.

People of Arabia worshiped moon God before Islam, so you do too.

These are merely stupid observation. I can do the same about Christianity, but I don't.

You see, if you are so sure about this, quote the Koran and Hadith that we worship moon god and I will leave Islam, you know, I follow Koran and Hadith, I don't follow some stupid observation like these. Does it get any easier than this??
Why do you need to use the above stupid observations if you are so sure??

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Moon God

Fair enough, but you said that we worship Moon God. All I have seen is stupid observations made by Islam haters, like:

You use the moon to predict your month cycles, so you worship the moon.
We know Chinese people use the moon too, but they it is a different case.

Nobody here has said anything about that.
What we DID say however, is that Ramadan starts and ends with a new moon.
The physical sighting of the moon is important..
WHY SO? Why is the moon so important to you, I wonder..

You use crescent on your mosque, so you worship the moon.
We also use the Cross on ALL OF OUR LIVES, but thats a different case.

The cross is for obvious reasons very closely associated with Jesus..
Are you admitting that the moon is closely associated with Islam?
How is that? Just what does "allah" have to do with the moon, I wonder?

People of Arabia worshiped moon God before Islam, so you do too.

No, but since you worship your "allah" with exactly the same rites at the Kaba as the moon worshippers did..
The practice is EXACTLY the same, it's just that for you, your god is named "Allah" instead of "Al-Ilah" or "Hubal"..
What a big difference.

Yes, of course your religion cannot have originated in pagan moon worship..
How could we ever think that? After all, the rites are only exactly the same, the symbol for your religions is exactly the same..
And the name of your respective gods actually differ with ONE WHOLE LETTER!
The difference is so HUGE!


How could one EVER think you are basically the same religion?
Stop acting like a fool.

These are merely stupid observation. I can do the same about Christianity, but I don't.

Total coincidences right?

You see, if you are so sure about this, quote the Koran and Hadith that we worship moon god and I will leave Islam, you know, I follow Koran and Hadith, I don't follow some stupid observation like these. Does it get any easier than this??
Why do you need to use the above stupid observations if you are so sure??

Yes, of course a partial pro-Islamic document desperatly pushing the idea that you are not pagans, but monotheistic worshippers of God..
Are going to admit that you worship the moon!
Right.

As I said, you're only trying to weasel your way out of this.
Why don't you try refuting our claims if you are you so sure Islam is the right way, instead of sticking your head in the sand?

[Warrior in Christ]

Re: Moon God

We haven't finished discussing whether ALLAH is a moon God, and now you are claiming that He is a Demon God!!!

Any religion that endorses suicide bombings and random bombings of overpopulated areas that are full of women and children can't seriously call itself the "religion of peace".

[Star Finder]

Re: Moon God

Now I'm not gonna say ANYTHING bad about someone who worships rocks. I'm all for that. And certainly the MOON is a strong god who provides secret entrance to a mysterious world. Along with trees and waterfalls, rocks and the Moon are my favorite idols of worship.

On the other hand, anyone who prays to a sandy-ass idiot like this muhagema guy, or momomohammahama or whatever his name is, that person is seriously wacked.

I will burn a small rodent as an offering that the SUN god stop baking your head and making you coo-coo.

[Talitha]

Re: Moon God

Islam just ain't Patriotic.

In America Christianity Rocks because It's the Truth as God Commanded it.

I don't know why we allow Mudslime Trash in here corrupting "God's Favourite Forum".

Our Pastors have better things to do like having to attend Funerals of our brave Soldiers who have been killed by........wait for it....... Mudslimes.

Now, I know we as True Christians™ are tolerant and forgiving, BUT THERE IS A LIMIT!!

Shert, unless you are here to be Saved by the one True God (who happens to be a Christian) then I suggest you spin your Web of lies elsewhere.

[Warrior in Christ]

Re: Moon God

Islam just ain't Patriotic.

In America Christianity Rocks because It's the Truth as God Commanded it.

I don't know why we allow Mudslime Trash in here corrupting "God's Favourite Forum".

Our Pastors have better things to do like having to attend Funerals of our brave Soldiers who have been killed by........wait for it....... Mudslimes.

Now, I know we as True Christians™ are tolerant and forgiving, BUT THERE IS A LIMIT!!

Shert, unless you are here to be Saved by the one True God (who happens to be a Christian) then I suggest you spin your Web of lies elsewhere.

GOD BLESS YOU SISTER!

You almost brought a tear to my eye(of course you know I don't cry because it's a very homer thing to do, but I did it out of love)

You obviously have an excellent grasp of what it means to be an American.

I'm an American, God is American! Hooah!

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Moon God

After I addressed all your points, lets try this experiment.

Go to your Church, get a cross from there and bring it.
I will do the same, I will go to a mosque that has a crescent moon and bring it.

You addressed none of my points! All you did was say that you didn't see what the points were. That's IGNORING them.

Finally,

Let me tell you something that will end this really quick. Bring me a Koranic verse or a saying of the prophet that says we worship a moon God, and I will leave Islam as soon as I verify the proof, will that work for you?? I am sure this is an easy task for you since your are very sure about my religion than I am.


If you cannot do the above, then please, please, please make sense with your arguments so I don't have to keep saying "SO".

As I said before, and which you are unable to grasp, when Mohammed and his co-conspirators decided to claim Islam was a monotheistic religion, it would not make any sense at all for them to put proof that it wasn't in the Qur'an!

Muhammed may have been an illiterate, but the people who wrote the Qur'an obviously had a brain among them!

Now, Salvation Seeker has demonstrated that Islam uses the same general rituals and the same holy site as pre-Islam, when there were hundreds of idols. Do you deny this?

Why do you insist that Mohammed did not just promote one of those idols to Main God status?