[Irinka the repentant jewess]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

Please don't hit me with the foul language thing. They're words. That's all. So, it's not frowned upon here to openly mock and poke fun at the Newtown shootings but it is frowned upon to say a word. Please.

Also, have I ever said that I know everything? Are you admitting you don't know everything? No-one can know everything. The difference is that I know that I don't know more than what a Christian, or any person who has a religion, knows they don't know. (The origins of the universe etc.)

I don't know how knowledge can be superficial. Knowledge is knowledge no matter how to define it. I agree that if you don't understand the knowledge and still use it in argument, it can seem slightly superficial. The thing is, you cling so closely to your religion that you think it's a special entity that cannot be harmed by mere fact. And it's true, people might not agree, but evolution is a fact. It's at the core of biology. Without it, nothing in the biological world would make sense. It's also evolution that means that it's required to have flu jabs every five or so years (in my country).

And for being arrogant, self-absorbed etc. Those personality traits really do sound familiar... God himself, with all of his power, instead of bringing humanity amazing insights and knowledge. Begs them to tell him he is awesome. Which is really all it is.

God does not beg. Ever. He commands. I do not know everything, but He does. My parents are biologists and they are Christians. They do not think that evolution makes sense, especially the part that says that mutations are often beneficial or that things develop from simple to complex, when, in fact, all things tend to move towards enthropy, or chaos. I am not dumb, dim or brainwashed. I am educated and have a profession, the same goes for my family. The fact that you believe evolution to be a fact shows that your knowledge is superficial. Read. Study. Think for yourself, and then you will be able to make an informed decision about what you are going to believe.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

Firstly, I do believe in a causal universe and evolution proves there's no need for Adam and Eve. Which proves Eve never picked the apple from the tree which then proves there's no original sin. This would subsequently mean that there was no need for Jesus. This kind of dismantles your religion and should be the final nail in the coffin. But, you don't accept evolution and despite all of the evidence and proof to back it up, you will never accept it. So, now I've just dismantled your religion, can I talk about astrology?

One thing we can agree on is that Astrology is the biggest load of horse shit in the world. That is all.

The flaw in you logic is that Genisis does not mention an apple. So, your facile house of cards falls at the first hurdle.

Educate yourself.

YIC

[Teenaged Shaun]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

The flaw in you logic is that Genisis does not mention an apple. So, your facile house of cards falls at the first hurdle.

Educate yourself.

YIC

Not at all. Ok, you're right that she did not eat an "apple".
It was a fruit. That, in no way, has any effect on my argument.
If you're having such a bad time, look in the paragraph, replace the word "apple" with "fruit" and what happens? Nothing. Stop nit-picking on the trivial.

[Teenaged Shaun]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

God does not beg. Ever. He commands. I do not know everything, but He does. My parents are biologists and they are Christians. They do not think that evolution makes sense, especially the part that says that mutations are often beneficial or that things develop from simple to complex, when, in fact, all things tend to move towards enthropy, or chaos. I am not dumb, dim or brainwashed. I am educated and have a profession, the same goes for my family. The fact that you believe evolution to be a fact shows that your knowledge is superficial. Read. Study. Think for yourself, and then you will be able to make an informed decision about what you are going to believe.

Beg or command, it still points toward an arrogant personality.

First of all, how does God know everything? What if he doesn't know something he doesn't know that he doesn't know? I know that's an awkward question but just think about it.

Secondly, genetic mutation is very rarely beneficial for the organism. In the 200,000 years or so that Homo-sapiens have walked the planet, there have been no noticeable traits that have been selected despite all of the death that has befallen them. The problem most people who deny evolution have is that they can't comprehend large time-scales. I'm not saying I can. I can accept one million years, but to comprehend it? No way. I do, however, understand it. A lot can happen in a million years. In a million years, about 29% of the Earth's surface has been populated by intelligent creatures. Us.
Now, over that time-scale, things that are rare, happen a lot. The long time-scale also explains the diversity of life on the planet.

Thirdly, I see how you referenced the law of entropy and touched upon the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And yes, it's true that an isolated system will eventually reach thermodynamic equilibrium, or maximum entropy. However, the Earth is far from isolated, the sun pumps more than enough energy out to keep the system from reaching maximum entropy. Also, you say that your parents and you probably don't think evolution makes sense. Did you know that quantum mechanics state that electrons can and often are in two places at once. It's crazy, I know. It almost doesn't make sense. But hey, it's proven. This means that no matter how crazy an idea may be, if it's proven to be correct, and quantum mechanics is undeniably correct, you have to let it in to your common sense bubble so to speak. That's the whole point of learning, to expand your mind and as an extension, your common sense and common knowledge.

Finally, I do think for myself. I often entertain ideas. I even entertain the idea that a creator made the universe. It's interesting, but the lack of evidence and abundance of paradoxes leads me to decline the idea. I spend most of my time studying. I have my exams relatively soon, so I revise physics, chemistry maths etc. most of the time.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

I have my exams relatively soon, so I revise physics, chemistry maths etc. most of the time.

So if you're studying maths you will appreciate that a chaotic system is a stable system?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

Beg or command, it still points toward an arrogant personality.

It may appear arrogant to our human, fallible minds, but the LORD knows what's best for us, and if praising Him is best, then who are we to argue? (Job 40:1-24)

First of all, how does God know everything? What if he doesn't know something he doesn't know that he doesn't know? I know that's an awkward question but just think about it.

There's no need to think about it. There's need only to head the Word of the Holy Bible and believe in Christ! It's easy!

Secondly, genetic mutation is very rarely beneficial for the organism. In the 200,000 years or so that Homo-sapiens have walked the planet, there have been no noticeable traits that have been selected despite all of the death that has befallen them. The problem most people who deny evolution have is that they can't comprehend large time-scales. I'm not saying I can. I can accept one million years, but to comprehend it? No way. I do, however, understand it. A lot can happen in a million years. In a million years, about 29% of the Earth's surface has been populated by intelligent creatures. Us.
Now, over that time-scale, things that are rare, happen a lot. The long time-scale also explains the diversity of life on the planet.

Friend, animals and plants look exactly the way in which the LORD deigns them to look. (Hebrews 1:10)

Thirdly, I see how you referenced the law of entropy and touched upon the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And yes, it's true that an isolated system will eventually reach thermodynamic equilibrium, or maximum entropy. However, the Earth is far from isolated, the sun pumps more than enough energy out to keep the system from reaching maximum entropy. Also, you say that your parents and you probably don't think evolution makes sense. Did you know that quantum mechanics state that electrons can and often are in two places at once. It's crazy, I know. It almost doesn't make sense. But hey, it's proven. This means that no matter how crazy an idea may be, if it's proven to be correct, and quantum mechanics is undeniably correct, you have to let it in to your common sense bubble so to speak. That's the whole point of learning, to expand your mind and as an extension, your common sense and common knowledge.

This is fascinating from my perspective. Tell me more about how you believe things you know to make no sense. How did you atheists contrive a lab experiment to "prove" what you expected to see?

Finally, I do think for myself.

Well there's your problem. You won't be so confused if instead of thinking for yourself, you spend your mental energy trusting God! (Proverbs 3:5)

I often entertain ideas. I even entertain the idea that a creator made the universe. It's interesting, but the lack of evidence and abundance of paradoxes leads me to decline the idea. I spend most of my time studying. I have my exams relatively soon, so I revise physics, chemistry maths etc. most of the time.

If you want evidence, son, look no further than to your Holy Bible. Open your heart when you pray, ask the LORD to reveal to you His plan for your life. Then pay attention to what is happening in your life. Trust Him. (Jeremiah 33:3)

[Irinka the repentant jewess]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

Beg or command, it still points toward an arrogant personality.

First of all, how does God know everything? What if he doesn't know something he doesn't know that he doesn't know? I know that's an awkward question but just think about it.

Secondly, genetic mutation is very rarely beneficial for the organism. In the 200,000 years or so that Homo-sapiens have walked the planet, there have been no noticeable traits that have been selected despite all of the death that has befallen them. The problem most people who deny evolution have is that they can't comprehend large time-scales. I'm not saying I can. I can accept one million years, but to comprehend it? No way. I do, however, understand it. A lot can happen in a million years. In a million years, about 29% of the Earth's surface has been populated by intelligent creatures. Us.
Now, over that time-scale, things that are rare, happen a lot. The long time-scale also explains the diversity of life on the planet.

Thirdly, I see how you referenced the law of entropy and touched upon the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And yes, it's true that an isolated system will eventually reach thermodynamic equilibrium, or maximum entropy. However, the Earth is far from isolated, the sun pumps more than enough energy out to keep the system from reaching maximum entropy. Also, you say that your parents and you probably don't think evolution makes sense. Did you know that quantum mechanics state that electrons can and often are in two places at once. It's crazy, I know. It almost doesn't make sense. But hey, it's proven. This means that no matter how crazy an idea may be, if it's proven to be correct, and quantum mechanics is undeniably correct, you have to let it in to your common sense bubble so to speak. That's the whole point of learning, to expand your mind and as an extension, your common sense and common knowledge.

Finally, I do think for myself. I often entertain ideas. I even entertain the idea that a creator made the universe. It's interesting, but the lack of evidence and abundance of paradoxes leads me to decline the idea. I spend most of my time studying. I have my exams relatively soon, so I revise physics, chemistry maths etc. most of the time.

This long time scale of yours is a very convenient thing for those who choose to believe in simple things (wherever they came from?) becoming complex things. Several millions of years, you say, would be enough for these incredible things to occur. I am not sure what requires more faith: to believe in a Creator who made things or to believe in evolution of premordial soup into human beings (and, again, who made the proverbial soup?).
The energy of the sun that is keeping us in order and sustaining us - interesting question - who created such a great thing as this sun that just happens to be so useful to us, and is close enough to us to be beneficial while also being far enough not to completely destroy us?
As far as God not knowing something He does not know that He does not know - that is a kind of a phylosophical catch-22 question, like the one about God being allmighty and creating a rock He cannot lift. While such questions can be interesting conundrums, they are also meaningless. Our finite minds cannot comprehend millions of years any better then they can fathom God's omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and the fact that He is infinite (unlike us). But that does not mean that He does not exist or that He is in any way less than what He says He is. Check out Isaiah 40:28.

[Teenaged Shaun]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

This long time scale of yours is a very convenient thing for those who choose to believe in simple things (wherever they came from?) becoming complex things. Several millions of years, you say, would be enough for these incredible things to occur. I am not sure what requires more faith: to believe in a Creator who made things or to believe in evolution of premordial soup into human beings (and, again, who made the proverbial soup?).
The energy of the sun that is keeping us in order and sustaining us - interesting question - who created such a great thing as this sun that just happens to be so useful to us, and is close enough to us to be beneficial while also being far enough not to completely destroy us?
As far as God not knowing something He does not know that He does not know - that is a kind of a phylosophical catch-22 question, like the one about God being allmighty and creating a rock He cannot lift. While such questions can be interesting conundrums, they are also meaningless. Our finite minds cannot comprehend millions of years any better then they can fathom God's omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and the fact that He is infinite (unlike us). But that does not mean that He does not exist or that He is in any way less than what He says He is. Check out Isaiah 40:28.

Evolution does not explain the jump from non-life to life and I don't accept it on faith. I rarely use the word faith at all as the very definition of it is believing in something without evidence. The evidence which is abundant. Fossil records, skull records, it's rather strange that our DNA is about 98% similar to a Bonobo monkey's. It all points to evolution by natural selection. Science has yet to find an answer to HOW life began but it's most probably in the primordial soup. The soup wasn't created. Vast amounts of amino acids and complex carbon molecules bombarded the Earth during its formation so it isn't created. You then referenced the sun. Are you familiar with the anthropic principle. If the sun weren't perfectly distanced away from the Earth, life would have never formed. So we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, if we're having this conversation, we'd expect the sun to be the perfect distance away. If you need more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

Those questions are all but meaningless. They're paradoxes obviously and in nature paradoxes can't happen. That's why you'll never see Pinochio saying "My nose will now grow". Now this is where you're using faith. The only evidence for God is in the Bible and that evidence has no evidence that it's even a credible source! This is where we differ. I'd prefer not knowing and trying to find the true answer than thinking that I know and being wrong.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

evolve verb
2 to develop and change gradually over a long period of time: .. SOURCE

Evolution does not explain the jump from non-life to life and I don't accept it on faith.

..so now that you know what "evolve" actually means you see that you DO accept its tenets on faith

I rarely use the word faith at all as the very definition of it is believing in something without evidence. The evidence which is abundant.

But you just said there was NO EVIDENCE AT ALL for the emergence of life (except the existence of life itself which cannot be admissable for you because the existence of the whole world is not sufficient evidence for its creation, according to you, and you can't have your cake and eat it).

Fossil records, skull records, it's rather strange that our DNA is about 98% similar to a Bonobo monkey's.

1} phrenology is an utterly debunked and obsolete superstition 2} a bonobo is not a monkey

It all points to

No it doesn't

[something about] primordial soup. The soup wasn't created. Vast amounts of amino acids and complex carbon molecules bombarded the Earth during its formation so it isn't created.

Which amino acids? What complex carbon molecules?

If the sun weren't perfectly distanced away from the Earth, life would have never formed. So we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, if we're having this conversation, we'd expect the sun to be the perfect distance away.
If you need more: link to atheist propaganda site excised Those questions are all but meaningless. They're paradoxes obviously and in nature paradoxes can't happen.

Now where did I see this?
Did you know that quantum mechanics state that electrons can and often are in two places at once. It's crazy, I know. It almost doesn't make sense. But hey, it's proven. This means that no matter how crazy an idea may be, if it's proven to be correct, and quantum mechanics is undeniably correct, you have to let it in to your common sense bubble

So in the hierarchy of false science we would be asked to imagine the following "NATURAL phenomena"
some sort of supercluster bubble (is this what was referred to [above] I wonder?)
galactic superclusters
some other stuff
galaxies
stars
atoms
subatomic particles
quantum fields
and so on down down all the way to hell


The evidence for God is not only in the Bible but all around you. Because you prefer not knowing you restrict yourself to books no Christian would ever consider at all because we have a standard enabling us to distinguish The Truth from deliberate lies. We know they are deliberate because the wretches proposing them HAVE STUDIED the material (in a depth laypersons have not) and having done so must know their falsehoods are satanic, from the consequences seen all around there is also GODLY science Jesus explains:

TRUE SCIENCE

DANIEL 1:3-5 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

DANIEL'S SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING ENDORSED BY JESUS

DANIEL 3:20-25 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace. Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

THE LIES OF FALSE SCIENCE ARE DISTINGUISHED HERE

I TIMOTHY 6:20-21a O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
KJV . look up Daniel 1:1-6; Daniel 3; recap: Daniel 1:7; I Timothy 6:17-21

I hope that is helpful. Have you made an intro post yet?

[FreeFromBrains]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

Bonobo monkey

This is what makes me sad: when the atheist side side is less educated than the creo side.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

This is what makes me sad: when the atheist side side is less educated than the creo side.

What's a creo?

[FreeFromBrains]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

What's a creo?

A creationist.

Compare with evo. The evo/creo divide.

Learning is fun!

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

A creationist.

Compare with evo. The evo/creo divide.

There is no divide. Evolutionists just tell lies.

[Virginia Day Templeton]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

What is it like to be in the head of an atheist?

A question I'd love to ask every bullet.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: What is it like to be an atheist?

As I came across a helpful article showing me how to persuade an atheist to become a Christian

I will not pretend I'd read that guide, because I hadn't until this morning, but under the Pastors' guidance I have become less timid and although I would never describe myself as confident did feel emboldened to take a peep how dreadful their lives must be. The atheists I mean, not The Pastors

it said:
Be knowledgeable about Christianity. If you are a Christian and you believe that the Bible is the direct word of God, then have you read most of it and the Gospels? If not, you may find the person you are trying to convert is better versed in the Bible than you. Remember that atheists live in a world that is mostly religious. They've had to defend their beliefs much more than a Christian who lives in a mostly Christian society.

But DO atheists live in a world that is mostly religious, Mrs Etheldreda?

It is not the case that I've never been a heathen wretch prowling around like an ounce seeking whom she may devour as many understand having been similarly envenomed themselves

PSALM 40
2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
3a And he hath put a new song in my mouth .. KJV . look up

prior to hearing His voice and might also remember having avoided churchgoers [mental people as we may have called them, I know I did] more or less like the plague or tsutsugamushi fever.

I was a vile and dissipated thing.

When would I ever have met a Christian? Rarely awake by day unless in some subterranean pit or lurking underneath the arches by sea-ports of ill repute it was my stern resolve to pollute myself in every way imaginable with additional suggestion welcome and yes, they were forthcoming particularly in East Asia and the Northern European hell-holes (as I now know them to be although at the time they appeared tidy and well kept I suppose: that's not always easy to see in the dark is it?)

Now I understand that He has called me to bring His Glory to these people where otherwise they may never hear and it is a challenge I accept because it is a challenge from Him. And although my former life is a dim memory which I never think about at all even when I see those disgusting wantons parading themselves almost as shamelessly as I did myself (probably) their thoughts naked upon their sleeves I recall His encouragement:

GALATIONS 2
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21a I do not frustrate the grace of God .. KJV

Hallelujah!