[Levi Jones]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I will skip over your horrible LIES and DISTORTIONS and just say I was using the KJV because I wanted you to see that even that inferior translation shows that the believes of mainstream Christianity are all wrong!

"
Because the NWT departs from the traditional rendering of many verses and stresses the use of God's name, Jehovah

Seriously, cultist? Jehovah is merely an attempt to pronounce an abbreviation of God's name that the Jews wouldn't spell out YHWH.

Why not call Him Yahweh or Jealous?

That vocalization was never spelled out until around the 1300's.

So go and wear your magic underwear outside of Freehold. And to think, we once attended the same prayer breakfast, church, protests and so much love for years.

My heart is breaking here. I'll pray for you.

But that doesn't mean I will not rebuke you as Paul tells us to with a fallen elder.

1 Timothy 5:19-21
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I will skip over your horrible LIES and DISTORTIONS and just say I was using the KJV because I wanted you to see that even that inferior translation shows that the believes of mainstream Christianity are all wrong!

"
Because the NWT departs from the traditional rendering of many verses and stresses the use of God's name, Jehovah, it has been deemed unconventional or inaccurate. The fact is, the NWT was produced with much guardianship of the original languages and allocation to detail. Jehovah's Witnesses invite any true student of the Bible, not just a doubting skeptic who seeks only to bring genuine teachings into disrepute, to discover this certainty for themselves."

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-accurate-world-translation-holy-5265373.html

[Bjorn Jensen]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Why are you quoting the KJV if you are a Satanic JW Cultist? Arent you supposed to use your false NWT Bible? I hope you are banished from Freehold forever!

Dont get anywere near my kids

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

It's impossible for non-Christians, like JW's, to suffer persecution. That's a blessing reserved for True Christians™ (Mat 5:10-12).

Well, you are in a pagan religion, so you aren't a True Christian.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Well, "Doctor" Niles, I'm sorry you feel so threatened by the truth that you feel the need to malign and persecute me.

It's impossible for non-Christians, like JW's, to suffer persecution. That's a blessing reserved for True Christians™ (Mat 5:10-12).

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Well, "Doctor" Niles, I'm sorry you feel so threatened by the truth that you feel the need to malign and persecute me.

I'm trying to help you see that Jobos only want you to NOT go to Heaven.

That's what it boils down to. They say quite clearly that you will NEVER get to Heaven.

EVER.

Think about what that means. YOU WILL NEVER meet Jesus and be able to praise Him forever.

Is that what you really want?

YIC

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Well, "Doctor" Niles, I'm sorry you feel so threatened by the truth that you feel the need to malign and persecute me.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

So stop being afraid of man and seek Jehovah!

It is such a shame that someone who I thought was such a great guy should turn into someone who hates Jesus

How can Jesus actually be Michael? Michael the angle who was too sissified to gainsay Satan.

You might as well call Jesus a pussy to His sweet face. Jesus is God so I don't get what you expect to achieve

Why would God have an exclusive group of followers who where somehow better than the rest? God treats us all as equals and only True Christians™ will get into Heaven, anyway.

Saying that Earth will last forever is stupid. Even stupid scientists say the Earth will end when it collapses in a huge implosion when the Universe blows up millions of years from now.

What you are actually saying is the Jobos are dumber than scientist but smarter than Christians: logic says it is the other way around

What I worry is that by saying the Earth will go on forever and there is no Hell you are playing into atheist hands.

No Hell means no moral certitude. No moral certitude means one thing, and one thing only.

I think we ALL know that it means.

That's right: anal sex

It is no accident that the value of 144,000 does not change. A population that does not change cannot be breeding. What is the only homogeneous population on the planet that does not breed?

The gaywise.

Think about it Basher, the Jobos are nothing more that a non messianic cult of personality like the Chtolics and dot heads who will kill you then rape you (in that order).

Hyperbole? Who can say? But I would ask you this: do you want to be murdered and then raped in mouth and face?

Think about it, Jesus died so you would not be murdered, raped (in that order) and then sent to Hell.

Finally, please remember that just because you believe something to be true; does not make it true.

YIC

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

As a Jehovah's witness, we don't care what the world thinks, only what the true God Jehovah thinks. So stop being afraid of man and seek Jehovah!

What proof do you have that your god is the true God?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

As a Jehovah's witness, we don't care what the world thinks, only what the true God Jehovah thinks. So stop being afraid of man and seek Jehovah!

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

JW's don't follow the Bible; they follow the Watchtower.

The Watchtower Society is to JW's what the pope is to catholics. JW's can't read and understand God's Word for themselves; they have to rely on the Watchtower to tell them what it means. But the Bible would be useless if the average Christian couldn't read it and understand it for himself. Nothing is to be added to or taken from the Bible.

Rev 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Watchtower continually adds to the Bible with each publication of its heretical magazine. So you guys will have the plagues of Revelation added to you. What makes you think the Watchtower is more trustworthy than the Bible? You do know the Watchtower has made many false predictions about Jesus' Second Coming, don't you? At first Jesus was supposed to return in 1914, but He didn't, so the Watchtower tried to cover up their failed prophecy by claiming that He had returned "in spirit." Then the Watchtower said He would return in 1918, but He didn't. Then it was 1925 and then it was 1975. Still no Jesus.

The Bible, which you claim to follow, tells us not to heed false prophets.

Deut 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Even if you are no longer a True Christian™, how can you still trust the Watchtower when they have such a bad track record? Needless to say, the Watchtower has to keep changing its doctrine to compensate for its false prophecies. You JW's also have some really weird beliefs, not founded in Scripture, such as that Moses and John the Baptist will return to earth before the Second Coming. There are so many contradictions and holes in the Watchtower's bizarre teachings that I could never put my faith in it. I'll stick to the inerrant Word of God.






1 Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

^^^Heathen_Basher^^^

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Right you are Mitza. Maybe you should learn to PAY ATTENTION. The great host no man can number is on EARTH. The 144,000 are in HEAVEN. Two different groups.

The 144,000 are obviously Jewish, wherever they are.

I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat debate with you but am interested in what you are posting so checked out Revelation 7 again.
I will be posting in English and quoting from the AV but will note any significant differences between that source and the NW Greek text
Watchtower ©1942.

REVELATION 7

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

of the earth so the setting for this is on the earth
nor on the sea the new earth has not been created yet as we know from Scripture since when it is there will be no more sea v.s.

2-3 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

till we have sealed those to be sealed are still on the earth then, since the earth, sea & trees are to remain unhurt (enabling the sealing process)
There is a minor difference in the NW English rendition here, the "servants" are BONDSERVANTS (the Greek is the same) perhaps suggesting the covenant with Israel

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

of the children of Israel indicates that these are Jewish people

5-8 [the 144,000 are listed v.s.]
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

stood before the throne where is this throne? Who is sitting on it?

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

God God is sitting on the throne.

11-12 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God sounds like Heaven to me, but if it is not Heaven, why is God there seated on the throne?

13-17 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne God is seated on the throne, but The Lamb (explicitly identified as Jesus HERE) is there too.
God shall wipe away all tears Does God leave the throne so that Jesus may be there? What happens if God returns? Does Jesus get squashed? Or are they co-extensive.

At present I'm sitting on a chair. In the midst of the chair lo, there is my heart. If I stand and walk outside behold, my heart goes with me. That does not mean that I and my heart are not one. We are. To deconstruct the grammar and conclude from the plural number (although dual may be more appropriate in this case but English doesn't have that option unless I were to say "the friend is the other self" but that's stretching it a bit and in any case my heart is not my friend) that I and my heart are two distinct things is fallacious reasoning.

On the other hand I might stay seated while "my heart goes out" to the plight of a starving Christian in Egypt. That doesn't mean that my heart has levitated itself out the door and landed in Egypt any more than that it must be squashed when it attempts to relocate to the midst of the chair.

The sacrificial mode of the Divinity is no less distinct from the Creative identity than the Judgemental or Redemptive modes. From a limited, human perspective they probably seem to occupy different locations in time, or in space. But that is because we're limited. We perceive "the arrow of time" but God does not.

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Authorized Version

It is not possible for us to comprehend the Divine Nature, but we can experience His action in our meagre world. The world where one thing follows another thing, the world of cause and effect. God does not inhabit this world, although as we saw in the case of Jesus, He is co-extensive with it.

II Peter 3
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9-12 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Authorized Version

[Faith_Machine]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Hey, so on my recent missionary tour into the unsaved darkness of the greater Des Moines area, I came across two very kind and smartly dressed men. They looked fairly Christian to me, so I struck up a conversation with them, and they were nice enough to offer me a magazine called the Watch Tower. They didn't read the King James Bible though, just something called the New World Translation.

Anyway, they brought up some ideas to me that were pretty troubling. I've always prided myself on being a Bible-alone believer, and I realize now there's very little evidence in the Bible to suggest that Jesus is actually God!

Look at John 14:28 for example. Jesus says, "My Father is greater than I."

In Philippians 2:9 it says of Jesus, "God also hath highly exalted him". How could God exalt Jesus if Jesus is God and therefore already the highest level possible?

Sure, Jesus is called the son of God, but so are many other people. Even Adam is - Luke 3:38 "Adam, which was the son of God."

God is uncreated, but the Bible says Jesus is a creation, albeit the firstborn of creation (Colossians 1:15).

Micah 5:2 says that Jesus' origins are from ancient times, but God doesn't have an origin, he's eternal.

What is this nonsense? Boy, you need to knock this off right now. I wish you were right here with me so I could plant my foot in your hindquarters.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

They clearly mean spiritual death, Heathen. Also, you can't even quote the entire scriptures. You have to post fragments.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Jesus is going to dropkick you straight to hell, boy.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The ungodly ... are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. ... The ungodly shall perish. Psalm 1:4-6

Fret not thyself because of evildoers.... For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. Psalm 37:1-2

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living. Psalm 69:28

The candle of the wicked shall be put out. Proverbs 24:20

The end of those things is death. Romans 6:21

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption. Galatians 6:8

Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

He which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death. James 5:20