[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Do you have SCRIPTURE to back that up???

Are you talking to me, dear? I can't tell unless you use the quote function. I'll assume you are, and are asking about the Scriptural evidence for Hell and what you might expect. The New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13). Those who have not been anally corrupted by JW gangs would understand the concept of an eternity of anal rape with a particularly painful, barbed, demonic, penile organ to be the very embodiment of everlasting torment. Those who have will not be able to comprehend the gravity of the situation anyway. I will pray for you, Brother.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Do you have SCRIPTURE to back that up???

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Where in The Bible does it say that somewhere able to contain a great host which no man could number should be declared "full"?

Right you are Mitza. Maybe you should learn to PAY ATTENTION. The great host no man can number is on EARTH. The 144,000 are in HEAVEN. Two different groups.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Revelation 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

JEWISH PEOPLE

5–8 Juda--–----12,000
Reuben--------12,000
Gad------------12,000
Aser------–----12,000
Nepthalim–––-12,000
Manasses-––--12,000
Simeon--------12,000
Levi------------12,000
Issachar—–––-12,000
Zabulon---––--12,000
Joseph---------12,000
Benjamin–––-–12,000
------–--------144,000

. . . . CHRISTIANS
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Authorized Version . look up

Where in The Bible does it say that somewhere able to contain a great host which no man could number should be declared "full"?

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Do you have SCRIPTURE to back that up???

That's it. Until I hear differently from a Senior Pastor, I have to block you.



Leviticus 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

Oh, and now the JW's don't believe in heaven? When did they change that?

Oh and you may want to remember this

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yet here are some of their false prophecies

• 1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
• 1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
• 1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
• 1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
• 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
• 1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
• 1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
• 1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
• 1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
• 1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
• 1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
• 1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
• 1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Do you have SCRIPTURE to back that up???

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

No, rather I look forward to enjoying an eternal lifetime in the paradise earth that Jehovah will establish after the Resurrection of the Dead.

You won't find it following these silly Jehova Witlesses. Instead you'll find the barbed end of Satan's tallywacker.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

So since the JW's say that heaven's 144,000 quota was filled back in 1935, how do you get in? Do you bump somebody else off the list?

What am I, a broken record here? I don't really expect I will be one of the select few who get to enter heaven itself. Just like of all the prophets, only two were brought up to heaven in the Bible.

No, rather I look forward to enjoying an eternal lifetime in the paradise earth that Jehovah will establish after the Resurrection of the Dead.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

What a nonsensical question. Who says God ever intended humans to be in heaven? He created Adam to live forever on a paradise earth, and that is what the faithful will one day get.

However, just like Enoch and Elijah were granted the privilege of being brought into heaven, so God will reserve a space for the most special elect humans to rule alongside Jesus. Read a Bible sometime missy.

So since the JW's say that heaven's 144,000 quota was filled back in 1935, how do you get in? Do you bump somebody else off the list?

And stay away from my children you pervert

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Now why would God create Heaven, put a limit on the entry, and then not end the world once His quota was filled?

What a nonsensical question. Who says God ever intended humans to be in heaven? He created Adam to live forever on a paradise earth, and that is what the faithful will one day get.

However, just like Enoch and Elijah were granted the privilege of being brought into heaven, so God will reserve a space for the most special elect humans to rule alongside Jesus. Read a Bible sometime missy.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

My name is PASTOR Flint, boy. I didn't get my Doctorate of Theology to be called "mister" by the likes of you.

My problem with the Jehovah Witlesses begin with the fact that they are a Satanic organization, based upon the occult of Freemasonry. Charles Taze Russell was a 33rd Degree Freemason; as was Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon cult.

The founders of both "faiths," the Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses, were of the Illuminati bloodline. Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower Society (Jehovah Witnesses), was of the Illuminati Russell bloodline, which also founded the infamous Skull and Bones Society at Yale University. Charles Taze Russell was a Satanist, a pedophile according to his wife, and a friend of the Rothschilds. Indeed it was the Rothschilds who funded the Jehovah's Witness operation into being, along with other Illuminati bankers, through "contributions" by organizations like the Rothschild-controlled B'nai B'rith. This was proved in a court of law in 1922. One of the key people involved in this was Frank Goldman who later became President of B'nai B'rith. Why would an organization set up (in theory) to help Jewish people and promote the Jewish faith, be funding into existence the Jehovah's Witnesses??? I think the name Rothschild answers the question. Russell was also a high degree Freemason and Knights Templar. He promoted Zionism, another Rothschild creation (Hitler was a Rothschild), on behalf of his friends and backers.

Are you a joo-lover, boy?

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Mr. Flint, why do the Witnesses of Jehovah scare you sooo much?

The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon…and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bo...the-archangel/

I'm really starting to worry about this. I don't want you around my children, and I'm really hoping you either change your ways or lose your True Christian(TM) status.

Bluntly, if we're right, you spend eternity in Hell. According to the JW's Heaven became "full" sometime back in the 30's. So your chances of JW heaven are NIL!

Now why would God create Heaven, put a limit on the entry, and then not end the world once His quota was filled? Oh, and there's no Hell according to the JW's, you just stay 'asleep' for all eternity.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Mr. Flint, why do the Witnesses of Jehovah scare you sooo much?

The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon…and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel/

[Bjorn Jensen]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Advice to all True Christians(tm) encountering the Jehovah Witless.

Encounters between Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses typically revolve around a discussion of deity. The reason for this is twofold. First, this is the area where Watchtower theology deviates most dramatically from orthodox Christianity. In contrast to the Trinitarian concept of one God in three Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--the JWs have been taught to believe that God the Father alone is “Jehovah,” the only true God; that Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God; and that the Holy Spirit is neither God nor a person, but rather God's impersonal “active force.” Second, the subject of deity is a frequent confrontational focus because both Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians (at least those who like to witness to JWs) feel confident and well-prepared to defend their stand and attack the opposing viewpoint.

Due to the profound theological differences, such discussions often take the form of spiritual trench warfare--a long series of arguments and counterarguments, getting nowhere and ending in mutual frustration. But this need not be the case, especially if the Christian will "become all things to all men" by taking a moment to put himself in the Witnesss shoes, so to speak (see 1 Corinthians 9:22). In the JW's mind he himself is a worshiper of the true God of the Bible, while you are a lost soul who has been misled by the devil into worshiping a pagan three-headed deity. He is, no doubt, quite sincere in these beliefs and feels both threatened and offended by the doctrine of the Trinity. To give any serious consideration to your arguments in support of the Trinity is simply unthinkable to the JW; he would be sinning against Jehovah God to entertain such a thought.

So, in order to make any headway with the Witness, it is necessary to bridge the gap--to find common ground that will enable him to rethink his theology. Rather than plunging into a defense of "the doctrine of the Trinity," which can be mind-boggling even to a Christian, take things one step at a time.

A good first step would be to consider the question, "Is Jesus Christ really an angel?" It will be frightening to the Jehovah's Witness to open this cherished belief of his to critical re-examination, but no nearly as frightening as to start off discussing evidence that God is triune.

Since the Watchtower Society speaks of "Jesus Christ, whom we understand from the Scriptures to be Michael the archangel" (The Watchtower, February 15, 1979, p. 31), put the JW on the spot and ask him to show you “the Scriptures” that say Jesus is Michael. There are none. The Watchtower Society New World Translation (NWT) mentions Michael five times as: 1) "one of the foremost princes" (Dan. 10:13); 2) "the prince of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 10:21); 3) "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 12:1); 4) “the archangel” who "had a difference with the devil and was disputing about Moses body" but "did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms" (Jude 9); and 5) a participant in heavenly conflict when "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon" (Rev. 12:7).


Ask the Jehovah's Witness which one of these verses says that Michael is Jesus Christ. Help him to see that it is necessary to read Scripture plus a complicated Watchtower argument to reach that conclusion. Rather than being merely "one of the foremost princes," Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT) and is "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come" (Ephesians 1:21, NWT). And, unlike "Michael who did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9, Today's English Version), Jesus Christ displayed His authority over the devil when He freely commanded him, "Go away, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10, NWT).

In arguing that Jesus is Michael the archangel, the Watchtower Society also points to another verse that does not use the name Michael but says that "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangels voice and with God's trumpet…" (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT).

However, the expression "with an archangels voice" simply means that the archangel, like God's trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that the Lord is an archangel. Point out to the JW that none of the verses he has attempted to use as proof-texts even comes close to stating that Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel. In fact, Scripture clearly teaches the opposite: namely, that the Son of God is superior to the angels. The entire first chapter of Hebrews is devoted to this theme. Have the Witness read Hebrews chapter one aloud with you, and, as you do so, interrupt to point out the sharp contrast between angels and the Son of God. "For to what angel did God ever say, Thou are my Son…? And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, Let all Gods angels worship him" (vv. 5,6, Revised Standard Version).

Remind the JW that angels consistently refuse worship ("Be careful! Do not do that! …Worship God," Revelation 22:8,9, NWT), but the Fathers command concerning the Son is, "Let all Gods angels worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). That is how the Watchtowers own New World Translation read for some 20 years until, in 1970, the Society changed it to read "do obeisance to him" instead of “worship him”--part of their consistent campaign to eliminate from their Bible all references to the deity of Christ. (See John 10:36 comment.)

True, you have not yet proved the "doctrine of the Trinity" in this discussion. But you have laid a good foundation by giving the Jehovah's Witness convincing evidence that Jesus Christ is not an angel (he is now faced with the question of who Jesus really is), and you have shown that the Watchtower Society has misled him, even resorting to altering Scripture to do so. Now you are in a much better position to go on to present the gospel.