[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Eeesh, and you call mine bad. At least mine was intentionally quick and nasty

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Huh, look at the Self-Stirring Pot!

He said it's draft; a work in progress.

Enobarbus, a idea toward smoothing, say, this line.

There would be boys of all sizes: big, thin, fat, and small

Am personally fond of loopy appositions- here, sans commas.

There'd be boys of all sizes thin fat big small



I don't expect many like that? But I sure do.



Peter


PS: metered rhyme in strict abab couplets is not easy to work to success;
the form is inherently trite (by such long familiarity--roses are red, etc)

It's generally best to master unrhymed poetry to some extent.
Metering applied to free verse can delight the ear,
yet many advanced poets do not meter much at all.
There are many poetic tools to employ, to make a poem poetic,
not proesy. We don't yet see here in the Korner so very much advanced metaphor,
nor kinky irony, or high-order stuff other than from that acclaimed author of "Brownie Mousie",
and of course, Pastor Al (Masterstrik)E Epistle.

Simple web searches will show up much in the way of modern poetry's guidelines;
data of real value--of use in our escaping the more cliched or artificed binds of formal forms
which some of our earnest ones are working out here with the expected results.
Readers' stomachs are everting.

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Eeesh, and you call mine bad. At least mine was intentionally quick and nasty

And who exactly are you addressing?

Are you suggesting that my poetic effort is less effective than yours?

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Huh, look at the Self-Stirring Pot!

He said it's draft; a work in progress.

Enobarbus, a idea toward smoothing, say, this line.

There would be boys of all sizes: big, thin, fat, and small

Am personally fond of loopy appositions- here, sans commas.

There'd be boys of all sizes thin fat big small



I don't expect many like that? But I sure do.



Peter
from his own special perpceptionplace

You know, that's how I had it, and then put the commas in just before publishing. I think you're right -- but the and must stay though, doesn't it? Otherwise the rhyme pattern goes out the window?

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Eeesh, and you call mine bad. At least mine was intentionally quick and nasty

I'll let Pastor Pistle and Peter comment on that...

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

You know, that's how I had it, and then put the commas in just before publishing. I think you're right -- but the and must stay though, doesn't it? Otherwise the rhyme pattern goes out the window?

People try to cram too much into a verse, in much the same way Father Mo tries to bugge.....but I digress. The simpler the better.

FLEAS

Adam had 'em

-Ogden Nash

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

You know, that's how I had it, and then put the commas in just before publishing. I think you're right -- but the and must stay though, doesn't it? Otherwise the rhyme pattern goes out the window?

I don't know or care about strict rhyme patterns.
My acid test is to -recite a poem aloud-.

-Can it be read naturally? If so, no worry.
I am a maverick on this point.

Read aloud over and again, slowly-parsing sounds and syllables, I say.
There are line break tricks by which to reset otherwise broken rhthym.

I write very odd poetry, usually. I just refuse to go "consistant" within a piece. I don't like, other than for the occasional humor poem, or -most masterfully done formal poem of genuine, great content-...I don't much like strict rhyme and meter.

I cannot scan. Incapable. I go by ear, though.
Jerry Herman can't read music to this day. Neither can Irving Berlin,
but he's dead. Yet both produced great tunes hummed every day.
So--use your innate tools to guide yourself. Listen to rulemakers but
walk around them when and if you can justify, by results, your breaking of their dullards' canons.

(gee, I rant too, ha ha)

Cheers,

Peter
puffed

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

OK, I'll try my hand at this stuff...

Jesus loves the little children
Especially those who Fathers beat
With their bruises black and blue
Its a sign that He loves you
Jesus loves the little children fathers beat

...not bad for my first attempt!

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

A big thumbs-up for that, Pastor Ezekiel.
It's simple and direct and clean
and entirely true to life.

The one suggestion I have is--why not remove
the unneeded, rhythm-disrupting "little" from the final line?

You'd also gain a nice, nasty too-close juxtaposition of "children Fathers".
Whimsically, that's also a neat inversion of the usually-expected "Fathers' children"

Oh--justify (make same) the capping decision you prefer for "father".
I presume you'd want to cap it to ensure it's taken as a priestly beating.
Or, if you flog your own kids (as you should), then smallcase, yes, agreed.


It's a fine verse any way you whup it.

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

People try to cram too much into a verse,
in much the same way Father Mo tries to bugge.....but I digress.

The simpler the better.

FLEAS

Adam had 'em

-Ogden Nash

AUTO GRAPHING

I like Nash, I do, and much
though
for longer thoughts I'll drive a dodge

-Peter Aping

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

I don't know or care about strict rhyme patterns.
My acid test is to -recite a poem aloud-.

-Can it be read naturally? If so, no worry.
I am a maverick on this point.

Read aloud over and again, slowly-parsing sounds and syllables, I say.
There are line break tricks by which to reset otherwise broken rhthym.

I write very odd poetry, usually. I just refuse to go "consistant" within a piece. I don't like, other than for the occasional humor poem, or -most masterfully done formal poem of genuine, great content-...I don't much like strict rhyme and meter.

I cannot scan. Incapable. I go by ear, though.
Jerry Herman can't read music to this day. Neither can Irving Berlin,
but he's dead. Yet both produced great tunes hummed every day.
So--use your innate tools to guide yourself. Listen to rulemakers but
walk around them when and if you can justify, by results, your breaking of their dullards' canons.

(gee, I rant too, ha ha)

Cheers,

Peter
puffed

And you shouldn't care either. What I haven't explained is that the purpose of my excercise was to follow a particular pattern.

This really isn't my area -- I'm afraid I always used to avoid poetry if I could, and would do short stories, Shakespeare, or novels in English. And I know that I don't have any real talent for poetry -- one either has it or one doesn't. I do have more ear for it than the likes of Hellsinker, or Mo, if his effort above is anything to go by, and I do know a little bit more technical stuff than they do.

Strict rhyme patterns are, well, restricting, and lead to sing-songy verse. Shakespeare did use iambic pentameter but varied it a lot:

Now is the winter of our discontent
made glorious summer by this sun of York

There are variations there.

I thought that some of you may recognise the pattern I was following. It's a very simple one, but used in some famous -- if not great -- poems.

The Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

It is two unstressed syllables followed by one stressed. Byron, I must say has done a better job of organising where his stresses fall than I have. If I worked on mine long enough, I could improve it no doubt. And I wonder how lone Byron took...

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

OK, I'll try my hand at this stuff...

Jesus loves the little children
Especially those who Fathers beat
With their bruises black and blue
Its a sign that He loves you
Jesus loves the little children fathers beat

...not bad for my first attempt!

What about this:

Jesus loves the little kiddies
Specially those who fathers thrash
All their bruises black and blue
Are a sign that he loves you
Jesus loves the little kiddies fathers bash

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

A big thumbs-up for that, Pastor Ezekiel.
It's simple and direct and clean
and entirely true to life.

Too true.

The one suggestion I have is--why not remove
the unneeded, rhythm-disrupting "little" from the final line?

Don't you know the old Christian hymn that I based my meter on? That "little" is vital to my piece! How dare you try and butcher my ART!?

You'd also gain a nice, nasty too-close juxtaposition of "children Fathers".
Whimsically, that's also a neat inversion of the usually-expected "Fathers' children"

Oh--justify (make same) the capping decision you prefer for "father".
I presume you'd want to cap it to ensure it's taken as a priestly beating.
Or, if you flog your own kids (as you should), then smallcase, yes, agreed.

Are you still confusing us with papist dogs? The Holy KJV1611 Bible clearly says that we are to call no one "Father".

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I was referring to actual fathers of children, those who the Bible rightfully tells us should beating their children soundly. The capitalization was out of Godly respect for Men. I missed the last one.

It's a fine verse any way you whup it.

I owe any talent I have to Jesus.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

What about this:

Jesus loves the little kiddies
Specially those who fathers thrash
All their bruises black and blue
Are a sign that he loves you
Jesus loves the little kiddies fathers bash

Wonderful Brother! It could be the second verse of my original creation!

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

I owe any talent I have to Jesus.

My bad. I thought it was ode to Father Mo.