[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

My view on this subject is that you Christians are not being Christian. At our church we have found the best way for people to come to God is not to tell them they are wrong, but to accept them for who they are and allow them to realise God's truth.

Do tell. What is a Christian? Explain it to me, in your own words.

Then explain to me what happens when a witch or a sodomite comes along to your church, hears a nice sermon about forgiveness, decides to come back next week, then goes home and fornicates. On the way to service next week, said witch or sodomite is hit by a car and dies. And goes to Hell.

Upon whose hands is that witch or sodomites damnation? Let us ask the Prophet Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 33:8
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

I think the issue with this lies in the word tolerate. Yes, we tolerate them. That is a part of life. If we tolerate no-one then how are we meant to spread the good news. Jesus dined with sinners, is that not tolerating them.

He also told them that they were wrong, so they knew they had to repent.

If they do not repent, they are not forgiven. You cannot be a Christian and live in sin. And if you are not a Christian, there's only one place you go:

John 3:18

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I just wanna interject into this fairly big argument here.

I am a Christian, born in the UK to a Christian family, attended church all my life and now attend Audacious Church in Manchester. I am also a computer scientist, but taking modules in physics too.

My view on this subject is that you Christians are not being Christian. At our church we have found the best way for people to come to God is not to tell them they are wrong, but to accept them for who they are and allow them to realise God's truth. Calling them "dumb" and "retarded" will NOT save them, which is your mission as a Christian. Essentially, you are doing more for the enemy by making enemies of people you should be helping.

Likewise, you should not instantly dismiss scientific theory. The church supported universities in the UK (mine was started up over a hundred years ago by the cathedral) helping scientists better the human race. When they come back with evidence you should not throw it all out of the window. Evolution is very well accepted and I accept it myself. As a human, I believe it is all our duties to see reason, weigh up the evidence, and make up our own minds. I believe that we have the creation story, not because that is the literal truth as to what happened, but a metaphor for how humanity came about. If God had dictated what is now accepted by the scientific community as fact, the bible would have been a lot longer, and early believers substantially more confused. Jesus used parables to explain truths, why could the creation story not just be that too?

Finally, atheists. Enjoy the variety this world gives, if we have fundamental Christians we also have fundamental atheists. I think http://www.xkcd.com/774/ sums it up nicely. If you don't agree with them, there is no point arguing with them. They will not accept your views easily, even if they are correct.

I hope I have added a new view to this discussion - hopefully one a little more balanced.

Brothers and sisters in Christ. I have previously tried to warn you all about this man's church. I though in the end they may try to attack us True Christians.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=68387&highlight=Audacious

YIC

Jack

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Do tell. What is a Christian? Explain it to me, in your own words.

Then explain to me what happens when a witch or a sodomite comes along to your church, hears a nice sermon about forgiveness, decides to come back next week, then goes home and fornicates. On the way to service next week, said witch or sodomite is hit by a car and dies. And goes to Hell.

Upon whose hands is that witch or sodomites damnation? Let us ask the Prophet Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 33:8
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.



He also told them that they were wrong, so they knew they had to repent.

If they do not repent, they are not forgiven. You cannot be a Christian and live in sin. And if you are not a Christian, there's only one place you go:

John 3:18

Well we never say it is acceptable what they do, so don't get all hung up on that. It's usually taken as given anyway. Be a pretty boring sermon hearing that every week, I can assure you. We are usually too busy praising God to list everything that is damned. The list is much too long (and boring).

As for what a Christian is...

Christian |ˈkrisCHən|
adjective
of, relating to, or professing Christianity or its teachings: the Christian Church.
• informal having or showing qualities associated with Christians, esp. those of decency, kindness, and fairness.
noun
a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

However, I would say visit my church and experience it to discover what it really means to us.

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Brothers and sisters in Christ. I have previously tried to warn you all about this man's church. I though in the end they may try to attack us True Christians.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=68387&highlight=Audacious

YIC

Jack

Haha wow! We are famous!

Looking at that thread, I can 100% say that audacious is not death metal (which is actually quite a laughable concept). Electric guitars and distortion is not death metal.

And it is anything but fluffy; audacious meaning:

audacious |ôˈdāSHəs|
adjective
1 showing a willingness to take surprisingly bold risks: a series of audacious takeovers.
2 showing an impudent lack of respect: an audacious remark.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

If you dismiss the Creation as being unscientific and therefore a metaphor what about the virgin birth? Water into wine? Rising from death after three days? These are unscientific. Do you dismiss them as metaphor? If not then why not?

YIC

Jack

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

As for what a Christian is...

Christian |ˈkrisCHən|
adjective
of, relating to, or professing Christianity or its teachings: the Christian Church.
• informal having or showing qualities associated with Christians, esp. those of decency, kindness, and fairness.
noun
a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

However, I would say visit my church and experience it to discover what it really means to us.

I guess the phrase "in your own words" isn't something you can quite comprehend.

Don't copy a dictionary definition. YOU tell ME what it means to be a "Christian".

And I'm sorry, but receiving Christian baptism doesn't make you a Christian any more than receiving an oil change makes you an automobile.

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I did not dismiss creationism as unscientific, I just believe there is more more of an argument (and scope to believe in both) for evolution. You have to understand that the word 'theory' to a scientist means that it is basically proven fact. However, if more (better) evidence came about for another explanation why we are here, then I would believe this. It is the ability to change our minds given the quality of evidence that makes us good human beings.

However, if we accept that there is an omnipotent God, we can then go on to substantiate claims of miracles. There are more accurate records of these events taking place, along with witnesses.

Rev. M. Rodimer:

If you read what I wrote, as a scientist I am taught to quote material from a source before I offer my opinion on the matter. I am sorry if this confused you. Continuing from what my mac defines a Christian to be, I added "However, I would say visit my church and experience it to discover what it really means to us." It is difficult to word what a Christian is, but if you forced me into a concise opinion, I would say "Jesus' representatives on earth".

This means that we do what Jesus would have done, we act how Jesus would have acted and, most importantly, we love how Jesus would have loved. When I said that 'Christians are not being very Christian' I mean that I, personally, do not believe you are loving how Jesus would have loved.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

This means that we do what Jesus would have done, we act how Jesus would have acted and, most importantly, we love how Jesus would have loved. When I said that 'Christians are not being very Christian' I mean that I, personally, do not believe you are loving how Jesus would have loved.

I suppose you're another one of these knuckleheads who believe that "Jesus does not hate anyone."

Well, that's just not true. God hates the sin AND the sinner, and Jesus is God (John 10:30 I and my Father are one.).

Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Please read the WHOLE Bible before it's too late.

Before you complain about the the fact that the verses I cited were from the Old Testament, as if that somehow makes them worthless, consider this:

In the Old Testament, it says that God hates "all workers of iniquity" (Ps 5:5).

In the New Testament, what does Jesus say that he is going to do to these workers of iniquity? Is he going to love them? Is he going to be their pal, and tell them that it's ok to be themselves? Let's see...

Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I pray that you have found this enlightening.

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I suppose you're another one of these knuckleheads who believe that "Jesus does not hate anyone."

You suppose too fast. And insult.

By the way, why can't I find freehold on the map, i'm trying to look it up so I can visit. Can you link me?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

By the way, why can't I find freehold on the map, i'm trying to look it up so I can visit. Can you link me?

Nope. Unsaved unwelcome.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I did not dismiss creationism as unscientific, I just believe there is more more of an argument (and scope to believe in both) for evolution. You have to understand that the word 'theory' to a scientist means that it is basically proven fact. However, if more (better) evidence came about for another explanation why we are here, then I would believe this. It is the ability to change our minds given the quality of evidence that makes us good human beings.

However, if we accept that there is an omnipotent God, we can then go on to substantiate claims of miracles. There are more accurate records of these events taking place, along with witnesses.

Rev. M. Rodimer:

If you read what I wrote, as a scientist I am taught to quote material from a source before I offer my opinion on the matter. I am sorry if this confused you. Continuing from what my mac defines a Christian to be, I added "However, I would say visit my church and experience it to discover what it really means to us." It is difficult to word what a Christian is, but if you forced me into a concise opinion, I would say "Jesus' representatives on earth".

This means that we do what Jesus would have done, we act how Jesus would have acted and, most importantly, we love how Jesus would have loved. When I said that 'Christians are not being very Christian' I mean that I, personally, do not believe you are loving how Jesus would have loved.

Does you follow all of Jesus's words or just the ones that fit your lifestyle?

Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

YIC

Jack

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Does you follow all of Jesus's words or just the ones that fit your lifestyle?

Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

YIC

Jack

I don't think you understand that verse. You should meditate (in the Christian sense) on the meaning of that verse some more.

Nope. Unsaved unwelcome.

Although I already feel saved (the condensed meaning of the word saved coming from John 11:26), how would I become saved by the standards of your church? If I can't have the address to visit, may I have it so I can write?

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Please explain the verse to me, pretty please.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

how would I become saved by the standards of your church?

So then how do people get Saved(c) if they are not allowed to attend Church, you ask?

It never ceases to amaze us the number of so-called "Christians" ask us this question. If they would only blow the dust off of their Bibles and put their noses into the 16th Chapter of Mark, they would find that Jesus commands us to evangelize the world! He didn't say, "find a comfortable pew each Sunday morning and cross your fingers in hopes that some unsaved piece of human refuse will walk through the doors of your church." No, he said, ""Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel." That word, "go" there is a verb. And for those of you illiterate, misguided Christians who allow unsaved people through the doors of your church each Sunday morning, a verb is an "action word," and "go" means "GO!" as in "leave," or "SCRAM!" It doesn't mean, sit on your hiney! The only place for evangelism is outside the confines of the Lord's four-walled holy dwelling place. God's home is a place for True Christians™ to fellowship. Allowing an unsaved person into church is like Rush Limbaugh inviting Hillary Clinton to a meeting of Republicans on how to defeat the Democrats in 2012. It's something you JUST DON'T DO! PERIOD!

If I can't have the address to visit, may I have it so I can write?

No.

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[Kristian]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Please explain the verse to me, pretty please.

Google it. It is 05:36 here and I have no time to explain philosophy as I have to be up to help a friend with her dissertation. I can tell you though, it is the meaning of the word hate you are confusing. Maybe studying 17th century English would help you there. Self sustained study is the key to self betterment!

So then how do people get Saved© if they are not allowed to attend Church, you ask?

It never ceases to amaze us the number of so-called "Christians" ask us this question. If they would only blow the dust off of their Bibles and put their noses into the 16th Chapter of Mark, they would find that Jesus commands us to evangelize the world! He didn't say, "find a comfortable pew each Sunday morning and cross your fingers in hopes that some unsaved piece of human refuse will walk through the doors of your church." No, he said, ""Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel." That word, "go" there is a verb. And for those of you illiterate, misguided Christians who allow unsaved people through the doors of your church each Sunday morning, a verb is an "action word," and "go" means "GO!" as in "leave," or "SCRAM!" It doesn't mean, sit on your hiney! The only place for evangelism is outside the confines of the Lord's four-walled holy dwelling place. God's home is a place for True Christians™ to fellowship. Allowing an unsaved person into church is like Rush Limbaugh inviting Hillary Clinton to a meeting of Republicans on how to defeat the Democrats in 2012. It's something you JUST DON'T DO! PERIOD!

I read this and understand evangelism (I have done it myself), but I don't think it actually answers my question. Perhaps a re-phrase. Why am I not saved in your eyes? (Although it is not your eyes that matter, only God's)

No.

I'll give you mine if you give me yours