why god wants us to belive in him...

[vadkutya]

...actually this is a question. i am new to this forum, but i've seen that you have a good tradition of arguing with us non believing scum, so i thought i give it a try.

WHY DOES GOD WANT ME TO BELIEVE IN HIM?

don't answer so fastly. i understand that god is almighty. i know, if i don't follow his path i will end in hell for all eternity. so i understand why i should want to believe in god. but what's his part in the bargain?

i mean satan is not a threat to god. since he is almighty he can wipe out satan with all his demons without even getting "a sweaty forehead". so it's not like he has to gather up some fighters for the last battle (armageddon), now is it? also, wether i am in heaven or hell doesn't really matter to god. he might feel pity if i go to hell but it doesn't change anything for him.

also, what does god gain from throwing me into the pits of hell for all eternity. is it for his entertainment? you see, the problem is that the demons within me can explain the why (i mean we all have deamons inside us, otherwise we would be free of sin, even free of comitting sins. as far as i know, only jesus was free of sins)? i wouldn't really like to post the answer her as to not disturb you guys but i would really appreciate if somebody could answer me that.

thx for your patience to read the rather long post,
vadkutya

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

...actually this is a question. i am new to this forum, but i've seen that you have a good tradition of arguing with us non believing scum, so i thought i give it a try.

WHY DOES GOD WANT ME TO BELIEVE IN HIM?

Friend,

The answer is God loves you very much. Since it is God's love, it is a perfect, unconditional love. Obviously God wants to make you return His love, His passion to lie betixt your breasts and refresh your bowels as The Bible says. Hence God created Satan to torment and trick you into hating God. That's why God visits disasters, pain and disease so see if you will still love Him. God can only know if you love Him if your last breath as die in a filth filled gutter in agony is “I love you God.”

It is all about the love friend.

[vadkutya]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

Friend,

The answer is God loves you very much. Since it is God's love, it is a perfect, unconditional love. Obviously God wants to make you return His love, His passion to lie betixt your breasts and refresh your bowels as The Bible says. Hence God created Satan to torment and trick you into hating God. That's why God visits disasters, pain and disease so see if you will still love Him. God can only know if you love Him if your last breath as die in a filth filled gutter in agony is “I love you God.”

It is all about the love friend.

thx for the fast reply Bobby-Joe!

as always with us non-believers it's not that easy. ok, it's about love. but let's suppose i love him...so what? i know i go to heaven but is that really all. i mean, do we live and die by this truth? also, if his love is truely unconditioned, he does love me anyways, wether i do or not. and why would he throw me in hell for eternity if his love is unconditioned.

especially, the point i don't understand is "Hence God created Satan to torment and trick you into hating God". why hence? why would he trying to trick me?

still thankful for your efforts,
vadkutya

p.s.: i apologize again for my misbehaviour Bobby-joe. sometimes i am not myself

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

as always with us non-believers it's not that easy. ok, it's about love. but let's suppose i love him...so what? i know i go to heaven but is that really all. i mean, do we live and die by this truth?

You are only alive in the truth, the truth that is Jesus Christ. (John 14:6)
With Jesus Christ in your heart, with Jesus as your Saviour.. Then, and ONLY then -
Will you have life eternal, where your body may die but your soul will live eternally in Paradise.

Without the truth, you are as a dead man already, and your soul will get tossed into the lake that burns eternal.
That is the second death, and unlike physical death, you feel this one forever..
It is literal torture in a literal lake of fire, where you will literally burn, forever.. literally!

also, if his love is truely unconditioned, he does love me anyways, wether i do or not. and why would he throw me in hell for eternity if his love is unconditioned.

First, you must gain this unconditional love..
And you don't do it by spitting in the face of Jesus Christ and rejecting Him like you would an ugly girl asking for a dance at the prom.
Give Jesus a chance, hate monger.

especially, the point i don't understand is "Hence God created Satan to torment and trick you into hating God". why hence? why would he trying to trick me?

It is a test of faith, to see who TRULY loves God:
To separate the true believers from the weak in faith.
For only the true believers will go to Heaven.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

thx for the fast reply Bobby-Joe!

as always with us non-believers it's not that easy. ok, it's about love. but let's suppose i love him...so what? i know i go to heaven but is that really all. i mean, do we live and die by this truth?

If you TRULY™ love God then what more do you want than to be at His Divine bosom for all eternity?

also, if his love is truely unconditioned, he does love me anyways, wether i do or not. and why would he throw me in hell for eternity if his love is unconditioned.

Because His love is PERFECT® if you can’t return PERFECT® love then well you deserve the Ultimate Punishment®. Think of what God has done for you; He has given you existence, not tossed you into Hell right off the bat. That’s a lot to return friend and if you don’t do it then Justice® demands you be punished for stealing from God.

especially, the point i don't understand is "Hence God created Satan to torment and trick you into hating God". why hence? why would he trying to trick me?

Because anyone can just say “I love you God” when they are facing and eternity of ass rape Hell. So God has Satan trick them into disbelief by hiding the existence of God.

Don’t worry friend, God will punish Satan for his wickedness.

p.s.: i apologize again for my misbehaviour Bobby-joe. sometimes i am not myself

Naturally friend I forgive you seven time seventy.

[vadkutya]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

thx for the elaborate relies!

still i feel that the heart of my question was not answered...

You are only alive in the truth, the truth that is Jesus Christ. (John 14:6)
With Jesus Christ in your heart, with Jesus as your Saviour.. Then, and ONLY then -
Will you have life eternal, where your body may die but your soul will live eternally in Paradise.

ok, i will have eternal life only then if i embrace jesus as my saviour. i got it. but it's about why i should believe in god not why he wants me to...ok, he loves me, he doesn't want me to go to hell...then why does he throw me in there???

Without the truth, you are as a dead man already, and your soul will get tossed into the lake that burns eternal.
That is the second death, and unlike physical death, you feel this one forever..
It is literal torture in a literal lake of fire, where you will literally burn, forever.. literally!

i know...still, why? what's his point? same as above, why would he ever wnat me to throw in hell?

First, you must gain this unconditional love..

but then it isn't really unconditioned, now is it?

To separate the true believers from the weak in faith.

that's a good point. i understand what you are trying to say to me. so lets suppose in the end god divided the true believers from the weak. the true ones go to heaven and the weak ones to hell. and now...??? does he start a new world again (with other guys of course, since we are saved/condemned in all eternity). do we/you just live happily ever after...and if so, what's the point in all this. is there not enough space in heaven? i just thought mabe if we understand god motivation better we can make other ppl see his truth

thx for your effort,
vadkutya

[vadkutya]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

If you TRULY™ love God then what more do you want than to be at His Divine bosom for all eternity?

i was not htinking about me...i was thinking about god

Because His love is PERFECT® if you can’t return PERFECT® love then well you deserve the Ultimate Punishment®. Think of what God has done for you; He has given you existence, not tossed you into Hell right off the bat. That’s a lot to return friend and if you don’t do it then Justice® demands you be punished for stealing from God.

but i wasn't asked to come alive! at least i can't remember . besides, i think i will never be able to return perfect love since i am not god. he has given me existence, he want's me to love him as he loves me...for what? to not to have to throw me in hell...but if he doesn't really wnat me to throw in hell, he shouldn't do it. isn't it a bit unfair to demand perfect love from an imperfect being?

Because anyone can just say “I love you God” when they are facing and eternity of ass rape Hell. So God has Satan trick them into disbelief by hiding the existence of God.

but is "just saying" enough, i wonder? besides, i don't really know him.

Don’t worry friend, God will punish Satan for his wickedness.

...let's hope so...

still thankful, vadkutya

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

i was not htinking about me...i was thinking about god

How could we possibly understand the Mind of God® friend? Think about it, He is infinite, He exists outside time. Obviously He enjoys our company. Be thankful He just doesn’t toss you into Hell.

but i wasn't asked to come alive! at least i can't remember . besides, i think i will never be able to return perfect love since i am not god. he has given me existence, he want's me to love him as he loves me...for what? to not to have to throw me in hell...but if he doesn't really wnat me to throw in hell, he shouldn't do it. isn't it a bit unfair to demand perfect love from an imperfect being?

Friend,

You really need to start taking some personal reasonability for yourself. Claming you were ignorance or diminished capacity because you were a just sperm doesn’t cut it. Remember God has perfect knowledge. How many countless sperm die every day because they chose not to be the first one to fertilized an egg? They could have chose to pull themselves up by the boot straps and find another egg but what did they do? Roll over and die. Would you want to Love® a quitter like that?

As for you loving God it is logical you have the capacity for the Love® God requires from you because He created you.

but is "just saying" enough, i wonder? besides, i don't really know him.

That’s the point. Only when you don’t know God can you truly love Him.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: why god wants us to belive in him...

ok, i will have eternal life only then if i embrace jesus as my saviour. i got it. but it's about why i should believe in god not why he wants me to...ok, he loves me, he doesn't want me to go to hell...then why does he throw me in there???

Because you disobey Him, rebel against Him, blaspheme Him, Hate him..
And the list goes on.

Really, can you blame Him?
The question you really should ask is why you feel that you must question God?
Wouldn't the Creator of the universe, and of you too for that matter..
Know better than us humans?

And could you even understand His answer, even if He gave it?
God is above us, friend. You shouldn't question that you cannot even begin to understand.

i know...still, why? what's his point? same as above, why would he ever wnat me to throw in hell?

See above.

but then it isn't really unconditioned, now is it?

It is.
Once you have it, nothing can make you lose it.
The trick is attaining it in the first place, but it's still unconditional.
Make no mistake, as it is NOW: God doesn't love you, He doesn't even like you.

that's a good point. i understand what you are trying to say to me. so lets suppose in the end god divided the true believers from the weak. the true ones go to heaven and the weak ones to hell. and now...??? does he start a new world again (with other guys of course, since we are saved/condemned in all eternity). do we/you just live happily ever after...and if so, what's the point in all this. is there not enough space in heaven? i just thought mabe if we understand god motivation better we can make other ppl see his truth

God will create a new world where we can live forever with Him, and be happy ever after.. (Revelation 21-22)
So if you got questions for WHY He did it all, that's when you'll get a chance to ask Him in person.

But as it is now..
You will never join us there, because you reject Him.


Seriously, would you question a stranger and ask Him why He did this or did that.. And expect a reply?
Why should God give you the satisfaction of even hearing His voice, when you reject Him?
Think about that for a change..

[vadkutya]

Wow, you guys are quick

again, thx in advance...and forgive me my blindness but i am somehow unable to see the light you are trying to shed for me...

Because you disobey Him, rebel against Him, blaspheme Him, Hate him..
And the list goes on.

i certainly don't hate him! but what gets he from me obeying him anyways??? why is he so obsessed -- if you would please excuse my choise of words -- with obedience. sometimes i think he might be just quite lonely. and imagine, living for eternity! already knowing everything!...poor guy

Really, can you blame Him?
The question you really should ask is why you feel that you must question God?

i am not questioning god. i am trying to find out if he even exists .

And could you even understand His answer, even if He gave it?
God is above us, friend. You shouldn't question that you cannot even begin to understand.

...if we can't even begin to understand him, how can we possibly begin to believe in him or love him, especially unconditioned?

as it is NOW: God doesn't love you, He doesn't even like you.

so his not-loving is conditioned by the fact that i do not woreship him? so where's the part without condition? he loves the one who love him...didn't jesus also love his enemies? besides, if he doesn't love me, how can he expect me to love him?

God will create a new world where we can live forever with Him, and be happy ever after.. (Revelation 21-22)
So if you got questions for WHY He did it all, that's when you'll get a chance to ask Him in person.

and yet, what's the point in living eternally. i mean, we can't even grasp what eternity means. well, i prayed and asked but the answer was quite disturbing!

Seriously, would you question a stranger and ask Him why He did this or did that.. And expect a reply?

if he was about to slap/kill/torture me or bestowing me 10000000... $ i would certainly wan't to ask him and i would expect an answer.

Why should God give you the satisfaction of even hearing His voice, when you reject Him?
Think about that for a change..

...because he wants me to love him?

thx for your effort again,
vadkutya

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Wow, you guys are quick

i certainly don't hate him! but what gets he from me obeying him anyways???

What do you get from asking? Why do you even care?
Stop using this as an excuse to not love and obey God.

why is he so obsessed -- if you would please excuse my choise of words -- with obedience. sometimes i think he might be just quite lonely. and imagine, living for eternity! already knowing everything!...poor guy

As I said, if you hate God or blaspheme God.. (Which you do.)
You won't get a reply from God, nor any answers.

Question rather is: Why are YOU so obsessed?
Trust that God doesn't need to waste a single thought on you..
While your thoughts revolve around trying to disprove His existance.
And you will die without the satisfaction of ever getting any answers to your questions, nor getting to know God.
And the only time you'll meet Him is when He throws you down in hell, and you'll only have yourself to blame...
Even though you try to tell yourself differently and put the blame on Him.
Frankly, I feel sorry for you.

You keep asking for a point in everything..
But being an atheist, you don't even believe there is a point for your entire existance..

i am not questioning god. i am trying to find out if he even exists .

You are, and you won't "find out" if He exists or not, by questioning him.
It's time for you to accept Him for what He is instead of what you THINK He should be.

Why should God ever answer to you?
You're not special, thousands are ready to accept Him as He is, so why waste time with you, who doesn't want to know the truth anyways?
God granted your wish and you'll eventually see the foolishness of it.
In short: your own actions brought this upon you.
You don't want God to exist, so God doesn't reveal Himself to you.
Why aren't you happy about it?

...if we can't even begin to understand him, how can we possibly begin to believe in him or love him, especially unconditioned?

Is this an argument?
Do you need to understand the chemical process behind love to be able to experience it or something?
Do you need to understand the process of making bullets to have your brains splattered over the wall by one?
Don't be stupid.

You don't need to understand, but you need to believe that God is God, there is none like Him.
That Jesus Christ is His Son, and Jesus Christ is God, and so is the Holy Spirit.
That He is three yet He is one.
And you need to obey the commands He has given you in the Bible, cause it contains what you need to know and do to be Saved..
And that is enough.

so his not-loving is conditioned by the fact that i do not woreship him? so where's the part without condition? he loves the one who love him...

To get God's love you must love and obey Him.
Once you have it however, God will keep loving you.. whatever you do.
Infact, He loves you so much then, that He personally ensures that you cannot sin.

didn't jesus also love his enemies?

No.

besides, if he doesn't love me, how can he expect me to love him?

Because He offers you a chance to gain His love.
Using your "logic", it would be impossible to ever gain a friend. EVER.

and yet, what's the point in living eternally. i mean, we can't even grasp what eternity means. well, i prayed and asked but the answer was quite disturbing!

What was it?
I'd wager it was satan who "answered"..
God doesn't answer the prayers of mockers like you.
Not that you actually did pray.. Lying will get you nowhere here, sonny.

if he was about to slap/kill/torture me or bestowing me 10000000... $ i would certainly wan't to ask him and i would expect an answer.

You are a fool, then... Although it was a bad comparison maybe.

In short: God does what God wants. Why should He ever answer to you?
Unless you can give a reasonable and logical answer to that, you got no case.

...because he wants me to love him?

If you "love" Him because you know He is real already..
Or because you are scared of hell or whatever..
You don't really love Him. You'd accept Him because it is the only REASONABLE thing to do.
But love is the opposite of everything logical and reasonable. That's why you cannot understand it.
Because true love isn't about reason.

You however, replace love and free-will with forced obedience.
That's not God... God isn't who'm you want Him to be, no matter how hard you try, He is simply God.
Plain and simple.


Give it up, you got no real case here.
And questioning God will never give you any answers, only dissatisfaction.
You cannot win against God, no matter how you try, and no matter how passionately you may hate Him.
I truly pity you.

[vadkutya]

however, i still have no answer . denial is no answer.

i'm sorry SalvationSeeker i didn't want to stir anger or something. it's just i'm slow in mind . your posts show a deep devotion and maybe a good understanding about what we humans can/should know about god (i can't judge that). you explained that there's no point in asking and yet you couldn't answer my question, i'm afraid. it might not matter to you but it does for me. i thought maybe, since you guys talk to god and he does talk to you, can ask him for me.

you are telling me i shouldn't care, i should obey...maybe i should, maybe i'm a fool...but i still have a point in this as so far my question was not answered. i'll ask him if i see him.

But being an atheist, you don't even believe there is a point for your entire existance..

right, my existence is insignificant.

Why should God ever answer to you?
You're not special, thousands are ready to accept Him as He is, so why waste time with you

...because i am the lost brother (LUKE 15:11 following)

You don't want God to exist, so God doesn't reveal Himself to you.

...maybe he does simply not exist if i don't want him to??? so is man gods blunder or is actually god mans blunder...that's what i am trying to find out. THAT'S WHY THE QUESTION ABOVE CARES!

Is this an argument?
Do you need to understand the chemical process behind love to be able to experience it or something?
Do you need to understand the process of making bullets to have your brains splattered over the wall by one?
Don't be stupid.

yes it is, because in world otherwise void of love and bullets or full of invisible/unrecognizable love and bullets i MUST understand these things in order to deduce from a splattered brain that actually a bullet was the reason! think about it.

Question: didn't jesus love his enemies?

No.

what about MATTHEW 5:21 following (especially 25)?

Because He offers you a chance to gain His love.
Using your "logic", it would be impossible to ever gain a friend. EVER.

you got me on this one . I admit it was more throwing the ball back

I'd wager it was satan who "answered"..

please, don't use my real name in here...(bad joke, was it? )

If you "love" Him because you know He is real already..
Or because you are scared of hell or whatever..
You don't really love Him. You'd accept Him because it is the only REASONABLE thing to do.

now we are speaking one tongue . that's another good question! if there weren't hell, would you love god. if there were no advantage/disadvantage, neither heaven nor hell, no salvation...nothing! would you still love him? why? because he loves you? but he didn't loved you before you started loving him? what would it matter then anyway? imo, hell is what keeps the thing really going...if i might say so .

Plain and simple.

...yes!

vadkutya

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: however, i still have no answer . denial is no answer.

Vadkutha,

I notice your signature says:

GOD MADE ME AN ATHEIST
Who are you to judge his wisdom?

You are most likely on the fast track straight to Hell, but you certainly have the right attitude!

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[vadkutya]

Re: however, i still have no answer . denial is no answer.

I notice your signature

well it actually shows my conflicting nature. i am an atheist but the nothing of god is still implied.

sincerely, vadkutya

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: however, i still have no answer . denial is no answer.

well it actually shows my conflicting nature.

That's not unusual. I've never met an atheist who wasn't all conflicted and confused.

Robert T. Lee of TenCommandments.org said "Atheism is properly defined as a denial of the existence of God in the midst of full knowledge that the true God does indeed exist. Atheism knows God exists; it is quite familiar with that fact, but it says 'under no circumstance or situation will I admit to God's existence.'"

Anyone who tried to follow such a bankrupt philosophy would be hopelessly conflicted.

Pastor Billy-Reuben