[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Would God allow nuclear war?

The only times he's ever had such an influence on people, was back when the Bible was being written, and thats been stripped, edited, scrapped, re-edited, and handed down over 2000 years, so we may have lost the real story hundreds of years ago.

Even then, I highly doubt that He ever actually influenced a man's decision directly, He let them make their own choices, and if the nukes are armed, ready to launch, and aiming whichever way, my opinion, he still would not do anything. Why? Because he gave us the ability to think, reason, and make choices for ourselves, and if we decide to destroy each other, well, thats just too bad.

I'm not saying He doesn't exist, He just won't interfere in mans own actions, whether it be against Him, or themselves. In my opinion, He's respecting our freedom, but eventually we will lead ourselves on a path to self-destruction. We don't need Satans' help for that...

What kind of idiotic question is that? Of course God would allow nuclular war. HE ALREADY HAS!

As for the authenticity of the Holy Bible, please take a look at THIS.

What does any of that have to do with preventing American youth from being turned into queers by playing these Godless video games?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

From Today, 06:04 PM

I am a player of Fallout 3, go ahead, start beginning to delete this post, but please answer my question first.

Can a player choose to not be an evil character? It has been proven that the character is only forced to kill one enemy, an irradiated roach. The rest of the game, people can play soldier, or satanist if you will, or they can play pacifist.

Do you think that whether or not children are affected in any vile way from this game depends on as much as the game as their own maturity? Do you not think that maybe parents have a responsibility in teaching their child right from wrong so that they do not commit horrible things?

Yes, Fallout 3 is gory at times, yes, it does simulate murder, yes it has the options of detonating a bomb in Megaton and killing the residents. I myself hate the Bloody Mess perk because it is just a little too unreal and over-gory for my liking.

On one particular quest, Tenpenny Tower, you can either let the Ghouls into the tower, or kill them at their home in the metro station. When I first played this game on my cousin's PS3, I had done the quest, and not being a bigot (Hint,) I proceeded to convince the others that it was not a bad thing. When I had found out that the Ghouls had killed everyone in the tower a day later, I went on a rampage. The point is, just because you kill something, doesn't mean it is always bad.

I even reloaded so that I could kill them in their sleep. This was a better alternative to them killing everyone, but I didn't do it because I didn't like them and how they were different, because that is simple racism. That is prejudice, and I do not believe that God encourages racism or being a bigot.

Fallout 3, is either a horrible game, a good play, or just another thing to occupy your time, it is not, repeat, not, a purposeful creation designed to change children or adults into satanists. If you are too blind in your faith to realize that, I feel pity for you.

Understand that how it affects a child is based on the teachings of the parent(s).

Would God allow nuclear war?

The only times he's ever had such an influence on people, was back when the Bible was being written, and thats been stripped, edited, scrapped, re-edited, and handed down over 2000 years, so we may have lost the real story hundreds of years ago.

Even then, I highly doubt that He ever actually influenced a man's decision directly, He let them make their own choices, and if the nukes are armed, ready to launch, and aiming whichever way, my opinion, he still would not do anything. Why? Because he gave us the ability to think, reason, and make choices for ourselves, and if we decide to destroy each other, well, thats just too bad.

I'm not saying He doesn't exist, He just won't interfere in mans own actions, whether it be against Him, or themselves. In my opinion, He's respecting our freedom, but eventually we will lead ourselves on a path to self-destruction. We don't need Satans' help for that...

So.... His son, who he sent here had no influence, no effect on any man? His words did and do nothing. I did not know that, thanks, Friend!

[CyanideJay]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Jay, not only does the religous aspect upset us (being True Christians™) but as moral adults, the themes in the games is offensive.

Tell me, have I pushed the religous side at all? I have only mentioned issues nearly all mature, balanced people feel, religous or not. Being religious only makes the wounds these games inflict upon my soul that much more deep and painful.

Tell me, what would your grandma think of you playing a game where people are murdered, prostitutes abound and God knows what else? Do you think it would please her?

I think games are great. Just not games like this.

Nah, actually, I respect you for not. You seem quite level headed, and havent really pushed any agenda. You are one of the few on here you actually 'Discussed'.
But does this mean EVERY post-apocolyptic set fictional piece is objectional? ANd what about if the content is objectional, but the character, through trials and tribulations, finds God? The message is there, but he had to go through some hellish things to not only discover himself, but the Lord as well. Is this tolerable by 'True Christian' standards? Or is the equation "Questionable Content=No go, no matter the message? Me and my Grandma have had a few discussions over the violence in the games I play. But as she knows me, she knows I know its just a game, and that I see it no worse than playing Go-Fish. However, I do my best not to expose my Grandma to such filth, because she dont need to be seeing that. I, however, enjoy filth from time to time, as long as it is in context to a story I enjoy.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Nah, actually, I respect you for not. You seem quite level headed, and havent really pushed any agenda. You are one of the few on here you actually 'Discussed'.
But does this mean EVERY post-apocolyptic set real piece is objectional? ANd what about if the content is objectional, but the character, through trials and tribulations, finds God? The message is there, but he had to go through some hellish things to not only discover himself, but the Lord as well. Is this tolerable by 'True Christian' standards? Or is the equation "Questionable Content=No go, no matter the message? Me and my Grandma have had a few discussions over the violence in the games I play. But as she knows me, she knows I know its just a game, and that I see it no worse than playing Go-Fish. However, I do my best not to expose my Grandma to such filth, because she dont need to be seeing that. I, however, enjoy filth from time to time, as long as it is in context to a story I enjoy.

Jay, I call you on the phone, ask you to meet me. You know me, we are good friends. I give you the address, you arrive, find me out front of a real seedy place. I invite you in. The place is full of crack whores and gangbangers. Even though I am there, a good guy, you want to be there?

If it were me, I'd never get out of the car!


Less than .01% of the population has a life anywhere close to resembling the games. I am sure you live in a nice house, have decent, loving generous parents. Clean bed, clothes good food. Tell where does the game match up to anything in your life?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

God gave me my morals. I choose to accept His gift. I am trying to offer them to you. A point in time will come when having them will be very important. Take the gift and treasure it.

[Perocles]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

What kind of idiotic question is that? Of course God would allow nuclular war. HE ALREADY HAS!

As for the authenticity of the Holy Bible, please take a look at THIS.

What does any of that have to do with preventing American youth from being turned into queers by playing these Godless video games?

As a life long Christian and avid Fallout fan, I find this entire board humorous, hypocritical, and depressing . I quoted you because I wanted to point out that this game in no way promotes homo sexuality in my 100 hours of gameplay if that's what you meant by "queer" - I assume so.

I laugh at the accusations of your members calling the younger generation who defend this game "ignorant". How uplifting. Judging by your comments compared with theirs, they are not only seemingly very intelligent, but make the members of this board seem as the "ignorant" ones. I realize you will just disregard this post as another "ignorant" teen who is hell bound but please realize I am a med student with a genius IQ, am an avid Christian, and I find this game to be very entertaining.

My advice to you is to stop being so narrow minded. If this game is so sinful, why has the pastor spent time playing this game? How hypocritical. Oh so as long as your not playing it for enjoyment that makes it ok. That makes perfect sense now, light-bulb moment indeed! And how dare the Pastor post such an obscene picture on the front page without warning!

This game does not promote the killing of innocents. It is player choice. Good players are rewarded according, and even acquire xbox achievement points for doing so. Hmm I guess the pastor didn't receive these as he was to busy loosing karma.

[Perocles]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Fallout 3 is both evil and unfruitful. I am telling you this but in your opinion you disagree. If you were Saved© by the blood of Christ, you would then be spiritual and able to accurately make a judgement. Since you are not, your judgements, according to God, are worthless.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Again, choices do not matter in the game. It is filled with excessive violence, swearing, crime, rebellion against authority, etc. All those things are damned in the Bible. I don't care if Fallout 3 had you saving Baby Jesus from space aliens, it's still a vile, despicable game filled with trash.

Maybe you yourself should read a few passages in the Bible to realize it is not your purpose to judge.

As you are a scholar of the Bible when you read this Matthew 7:1 should immediately pop into your enlightened and spiritual mind. It reads ( for everyone else) "Judge not, that ye be not judged." So we will be leaving that job to a higher authority than yourself, who has not the slightest idea what the Holy Trinity may or may not be thinking, have thought, or will in the future think.

You say-
"Again, choices do not matter in the game. It is filled with excessive violence, swearing, crime, rebellion against authority, etc. All those things are damned in the Bible. I don't care if Fallout 3 had you saving Baby Jesus from space aliens, it's still a vile, despicable game filled with trash."

How considerate of you. Guess what else is full of these things? LIFE is !!
You have to take the good with the bad, and take the bad with a grain of salt, and do not dwell on it. Dwelling on it obsessively as we are doing on this board is only detrimental because it causes strife among good people, and it wastes valuable time that could be better spent doing charity work, reading the bible, and spending time with your family.

Yes, I realize this game is full of theses things; but unless you live under a rock, you will come into contact with these things on a daily basis. Zone these things out. Focus on the good things only.

[CyanideJay]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Jay, I call you on the phone, ask you to meet me. You know me, we are good friends. I give you the address, you arrive, find me out front of a real seedy place. I invite you in. The place is full of crack whores and gangbangers. Even though I am there, a good guy, you want to be there?

If it were me, I'd never get out of the car!


Less than .01% of the population has a life anywhere close to resembling the games. I am sure you live in a nice house, have decent, loving generous parents. Clean bed, clothes good food. Tell where does the game match up to anything in your life?

This, I may actually be able to clarify on. No, the game, obviously bleak, does not match up to my RL in the slightest. However, that is not the point. I enjoy new things and exploration. Now hopefully I can have this come across how Im thinking it: By exploring, I mean with my mind (I do in the physical sense as well, but, lets leave that, as its not so relelvent). I enjoy experiencing the bleak, dark, often depressing world of 'Fallout' because it is a different world. I dont foresee me tromping through the wastes of D.C. with my Dog at my side, scavenging for food while avoiding pack of murderous Raiders in the near future. Nor do I really wish to in RL, but the experience of it is compelling to me.
As for your question about us hypothetically meeting, yeah, I'd go in. If we knew each other well and all that, I would have no problem with it. I can take care of myself, without going into to much detail, I have a bit of streetsmarts and would have no problem with the unsavory people or dilapidated house in your scenario. Again, this hinges on me knowing you quite well.

[CyanideJay]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

What does any of that have to do with preventing American youth from being turned into queers by playing these Godless video games?

Wow man....just..wow....I understand you thinking those who play 'Godless' games are bad, sinful people. But queers?

"I remember my boy (Sniffles) He was a good son..then that damned Military Shooter made him all queer by introducing multiplayer deathmatches and allowing him to kill indiscrimantly. Now...now, he just dates Men and wears womens clothing. Damned Video Game."

Like saying people who eat red meat turn into Badgers. Just does not make sense.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Maybe you yourself should read a few passages in the Bible to realize it is not your purpose to judge.

As you are a scholar of the Bible when you read this Matthew 7:1 should immediately pop into your enlightened and spiritual mind. It reads ( for everyone else) "Judge not, that ye be not judged." So we will be leaving that job to a higher authority than yourself, who has not the slightest idea what the Holy Trinity may or may not be thinking, have thought, or will in the future think.

Rather, maybe you should read the Bible and understand it wholly before trying to criticize me with Scripture. Matthew 7:1-5 deals with hypocritical judgement. If you read carefully, Jesus is saying not to judge people for their sins when we have committed the same sin. So for example, if I am an adulterer and I judge you for cheating on your wife, I am erring against what Jesus taught. I am being a hypocrite. However, if I am not an adulterer and have remained faithful to my wife, I have every right to judge you for being an adulterer.

The Bible tells us in many places that we should judge, and it makes a lot of sense because how can you know if something is good or bad without judgement? How can you know to stay away from the "unfruitful works of darkness" without judging it to be so?

This is what Jesus Himself had to say about judging...

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

For more information on judging, please read Pastor Billy-Reuben's excellent commentary.

[Perocles]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

No, no more than any of the rest of the crap in the mindless timewaster you guys call a game. Face it, you are all going to waste your lives playing this junk, may 1 in 100,000,000 might make a living at it, the rest will live forever in your parents basement, drinking Monster and eating Cheetos. You will die there and no one will notice.

I just noticed this jewel of buried deep within the recesses of this vast board. Your judgmental stereotyping is astounding. Its a form of entertainment. Just because someone plays this game does not mean it is all they do. I have had this game since it was launched : October 30, 2008 and have accumulated 100 hours of gameplay. This averages out to about 11 hours a month, or 22 minutes a day. I would bet you spend more time on this forum; however no one is making accusations to that effect against you. What have you accomplished in your life since October 30, 2008 Mr. Hutchins? I am making A's at a prestigious university. Stop with the sterotyping please, it is childish and immature.

[jschuma]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Before we begin, I simply ask to heard out.

First off I agree with the post that it is important for Parents to teach their children right from wrong, I also believe it is important for children to think for themselves and determine their own minds, develop, and mature with a measure of independence.

Fallout 3 was not made as some promotional tool against religion or Christianity, nor was it made to corrupt children. It is simply a game, and should be judged as such, not as a tool or as propaganda.

As for the game itself, it is good, not in Christian way, but from a technological perspective. The graphics are above par, it forces the player to consider many methods for completing various goals, and it also forces them to exercise moral choices, and has a replay value. None of this has to do with faith, or belief, but simply its objective rating as a game. You can dislike it, think it is bloody, it is I admit, but as a game, it is objectively successful.

As for faith. I have the highest respect for faith and the faithful, and believe it is something that should be cherished when found, but found genuinely for each person. I do not believe it should be used to condemn or judge others, something I do believe is also stated in the Bible. So before you condemn and judge the makers of this software, or those who enjoy it, or condemn and judge people who are different, I ask that you be more aware.

And no, I do not care if you delete this, or condemn it as something written by someone who is not a true believer, I expect it actually, from what else I've read on this site. If it makes you feel better about it I am Agnostic. I felt this game deserved an honest critique, and aimed to give it one in the event your viewers desired an outside perspective. As a note though, condemn my beliefs if you will, but I do not condemn yours or hold those who believe differently from me with any less regard than myself.

Also Reverend, the quote you use in your signature for posting, Proverbs 10:22 is actually one of my favorite quotes, though it saddens me to see it in such a context. It is my favorite because it shows the moral and mental wealth faith gives those that have it, and that it should not be something to be ashamed of, not that it can be used for a monetary gain.

Thank you for reading, even though I expect it to be deleted.

[Palmer C. Eldrich]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Thank you for reading, even though I expect it to be deleted.

Even though this isn't a free-speech zone, the pastors don't go around deleting everone's posts. You can see from the above conversations that a lot of baloney is permitted to stay because it is proof of the myopic view that you gamers have on life and religion. As soon as you start posting homo-erotic porn or pictures of death, that's when you can expect your posts to be deleted forthwith.

[Perocles]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Rather, maybe you should read the Bible and understand it wholly before trying to criticize me with Scripture. Matthew 7:1-5 deals with hypocritical judgement. If you read carefully, Jesus is saying not to judge people for their sins when we have committed the same sin. So for example, if I am an adulterer and I judge you for cheating on your wife, I am erring against what Jesus taught. I am being a hypocrite. However, if I am not an adulterer and have remained faithful to my wife, I have every right to judge you for being an adulterer.

The Bible tells us in many places that we should judge, and it makes a lot of sense because how can you know if something is good or bad without judgement? How can you know to stay away from the "unfruitful works of darkness" without judging it to be so?

This is what Jesus Himself had to say about judging...

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

For more information on judging, please read Pastor Billy-Reuben's excellent commentary.

Yes, you should discern what is good and evil; and you can as in your example, judge me for being an adulterer if that is the case. Judging a man's soul however is alot different than accusing him of vile acts or wrong doing. Can you please point me to a scripture that says you can judge a man's soul? I think not.

Revelation 20: 11-15

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.






Tell me pastor, who was sitting at the seat of judgement? Who knows the names written in the Book of Life?



"The Bible tells us in many places that we should judge, and it makes a lot of sense because how can you know if something is good or bad without judgement?"


Again, judging if something is good or evil is vastly different than judging a soul. Do you think you are so perfect you can sit at the seat of judgement an condemn souls?


I went over the link you sent in your reply, and found no reference giving anyone the authority to say whose names are written in the Book of Life. However it is indeed late, and my eyes are tired, so please reference me to the specific verse as this is a topic of interest to me. Again I want the verse giving a human being the authority to pass judgment on a man's soul, not his actions.



Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Ok here is my interpretaion

Verse 1 is crystal clear, and I think it is referring to the soul. Verse 2 tells you why not to do so. Because you will be judged with your own measuring stick if you do that, and since your measuring stick (so to speak) is not perfect, or as merciful as the judgement of the Lord's, if you choose to do so when your judgment comes the Lord will not be as merciful to you.


Starting with verse 3. I don't believe to be relevevant to judging as in verses 1-2. Read it. Imagine having a conversation with someone and something else pops into your mind. That's what happened in verse 3 as this is where the subject changes from judging to hypocrisy.


To summarize, as a pastor I believe that yes, it certainly is very important that you identify when a person is struggling spiritually with life, but you don't know how their soul will be judged.



Sorry for this drawn out post that is irrelevant to the game Fallout 3.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Fallout 3: Another Satanic, Violent game from "Oblivion" crea

Yes, you should discern what is good and evil; and you can as in your example, judge me for being an adulterer if that is the case. Judging a man's soul however is alot different than accusing him of vile acts or wrong doing. Can you please point me to a scripture that says you can judge a man's soul? I think not.

Revelation 20: 11-15

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I wasn't judging his soul. I was judging that a) Fallout 3 is evil in the eyes of God based on Biblical support and b) the poster is not spiritual to judge. Again, I refer to the earlier Corinthians quote...

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

All things. I could judge his soul if I wanted to, but I wasn't. There's also a difference between judging and damning. In the Revelations verses it deals with Judgement Day, and while Jesus is judging all people, He is also damning them to Hell. I cannot damn anyone to Hell, only Jesus can. But all those that are spiritual can judge all things.

Tell me pastor, who was sitting at the seat of judgement? Who knows the names written in the Book of Life?

Jesus.

"The Bible tells us in many places that we should judge, and it makes a lot of sense because how can you know if something is good or bad without judgement?"


Again, judging if something is good or evil is vastly different than judging a soul. Do you think you are so perfect you can sit at the seat of judgement an condemn souls?

No, of course I can't. Only Jesus condemns souls. But as a pastor, and being spiritual, I can judge all things. If not, how would I know whether or not to judge if someone needs help? How would I know what to help a person with if I cannot judge them? There's a difference between judgement and damnation.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Ok here is my interpretaion

Verse 1 is crystal clear, and I think it is referring to the soul.

With all due respect, you are interpreting the Bible wrongly. As a pastor with over 45 years experience, I can tell you that Matthew 7:1-5 is about hypocritical judgement only. My fellow pastors at Landover, and many others as well would agree with me. Nowhere in verse 1 does it say anything about a soul. Jesus is saying "If you judge, you will be judged too". Which is perfectly fine for me because I know I am spiritually clean and I welcome Jesus judging me.

Verse 2 tells you why not to do so. Because you will be judged with your own measuring stick if you do that, and since your measuring stick (so to speak) is not perfect, or as merciful as the judgement of the Lord's, if you choose to do so when your judgment comes the Lord will not be as merciful to you.

Not quite. It is clearly addressing hypocrisy in this verse. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged. So if I judge someone's adultery, my adultery will be judged too. Jesus is talking about specific judgements here, not general, overall judgement.

Starting with verse 3. I don't believe to be relevevant to judging as in verses 1-2. Read it. Imagine having a conversation with someone and something else pops into your mind. That's what happened in verse 3 as this is where the subject changes from judging to hypocrisy.

No. Verse 3 clearly segues in from verse 2 which is about hypocrisy. Jesus is just further elaborating on what He is talking about.

To summarize, as a pastor I believe that yes, it certainly is very important that you identify when a person is struggling spiritually with life, but you don't know how their soul will be judged.

But I will know. The Corinthians quote tells us this is so.

Sorry for this drawn out post that is irrelevant to the game Fallout 3.

No apologies needed. It's better we are discussing the Bible instead of a video game.