Stand Againist

[Vertilis155]

Before you slander me or condemn me please listen. I am not here to flame or argue, any hate will be dealt with calmly and not with hate in return. Just have a open mind while you read, that's all I ask, thank you.

For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit; (*1 Peter *3:*10 ESV)

How do we expect the unsaved or lost to become saved if we show them hate and condemn them? We are suppose to lead others to the cross, not push them away. We are suppose to spread LOVE not hate.

Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (*1 Peter *3:*9 ESV)

Bless those who are different so that they may one day know God. Not curse them and shove them away form His love.

But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. (*Jude *1:*10 ESV)

This is what we become of we hate and judge, instead of love and lead. There are many other points, but this is one of them.

Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*15 ESV)

This is why I'm posting this. To warn you all, that hate isn't the way to go. Love is.

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*3 ESV)

This is true, but why do you all feel the need to guard yourselves with hateful comments and slander? Is it fear? You don't have to fear those different than you, yet understand them so you can show them love. Fear breeds hate, Jesus is Love not hate.

As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. (*James *4:*16 ESV)

Don't you see, when you boast about being a true Christian, that it is wrong to begin with? We should boast about God's ever loving grace! Not about ourselves!

and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, even as God also in Christ forgave you. (*Ephesians *4:*32 ASV)

If God forgives you, why you not forgive those who are different? We are to be kind and tender hearted to each other, to forgive. Like He has forgiven us.

To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” (*Romans *12:*20 ESV)

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (*Romans *12:*21 ESV)

So what if those who stand different than us curse us or hate us? Showing them kindness will confuse and kill them a lot quicker, hate will only grow into more hate.

Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? (*James *3:*11 ESV)

You CANNOT claim to love The Lord and not love like He did. You must love like Him, not hate others because they do not know Him. How can they know His love if you don't show it?

I am done here, have a lovely day or night. God bless, I shall pray for you all.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Stand Againist

Dear Miss Vertilis,

What is this ESV? Is it a cult like the parapsychology ESP or extra-sensory perception? We use the Bible on our Forum, the original, the King James Bible.

As for politeness and harsh language, we choose to follow the example of our Savior, Jesus Christ!



Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

1 Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

I don't understand why the rhetorical devices of our Lord would not be appropriate for us?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

it's the English standard version, but it was my view that The Word of God is good to all, no matter the language or version it's written in. Now if someone wrote it to where it's completely out of context, then it's wrong. But changing up the words like you or I is not wrong, this why replacing thy with you is complete fine. They both mean the same thing, just clarifies. ^^ Bit thank you for your input on it, sir. It helped me see a little on your side.

As for that stating,

I believe He meant generation of vipers as in, those before you were unclean. Hence the term 'generation' as in offspring or youth, of vipers which in this case could mean unsaved sinners of their families. But that's just my take on it, I could be wrong of course.

Maybe he was asking who has warn you, as in who has told you, of the wrath to become if you are not saved? Just another look at it.

One could rebuke by telling others the consequences of their actions will indeed land them in Hell, so they may fear after warning. But yet again that is to warn them, like brothers, that what they are doing is wrong. So they can know what is right, which is Jesus, so they can fix the errors of their ways by repentance and being saved.

Just my whole intake on those two passages is all, sir. Thank you for replying kindly though.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

it's the English standard version...But changing up the words like you or I is not wrong, this why replacing thy with you is complete fine...

And if that was all the ESV changed, then it would be acceptable to the True Christians™. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff that's changed or outright omitted in the ESV.

Just off the top of my head, let's compare 1 John 5:7-8 (ESV vs. KJV):

1 John 5:7-8 (ESV): "7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree."

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV): "7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

They hardly mean the same thing, do they? This page illustrates many of the differences between the two, and the reasons for them.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

Then allow me apologize, sir. I didn't completely know the difference, but thank you for showing me. I shall use the New King James Version if it better suits.

Speaking of the Holy Spirit, he's in there right? Of course, he's inside each of us.
Let's try and bring him out, though I see he's shining through you alls current kindness. Thank the Lord for that, Amen. Yet you treat others like me kindly, yet what about those who need kindness the most? The lost, the unsaved? They need to be shown kindness, love. So that they may know Christ and salvation!

Hence why I made this post, form seeing nothing but the opposite of kindness form members of this site towards those who do not know Christ or are different.

Let's take the Bible for an example, a wonderful book! Filled with many life changing things and ways to live by! We know it is, but the lost and unsaved do not.

How do we exspect them to know of this wonderful book and God if we throw hate towards them and discourage them form reading it?

No one was born saved, we all got here somehow. That includes of all you.

Don't you want the sane happiness and love for someone else? Can you not remember a time where you weren't saved?

It's awful, isn't it? Not knowing love or The Lord.

But the people on this site are denying other that by showing them the opposite. By telling them they aren't good enough, ect.

Don't you see? God wants us to LOVE and bring others to Him through LOVE.

Not hate. Thank you for listening, it means a lot knowing at least someone is paying attention. ^^

[James Hutchins]

Re: Stand Againist

Before ......<tl;dr..>............. all.

Welcome friend.
Where were you when you first head Jesus feel your soul? Did you let yourself go and be submissive in His presence or were you all tense as he Entered you?

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Stand Againist

Then allow me apologize, sir. I didn't completely know the difference, but thank you for showing me. I shall use the New King James Version if it better suits.

No, it doesn't. Why oh why do you persist in ignoring what people say to you? Where did anyone here recommend the "New" King James Version (1975)?

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

No, it doesn't. Why oh why do you persist in ignoring what people say to you? Where did anyone here recommend the "New" King James Version (1975)?

I didn't know me accidentally typing the word new in there or not reading properly could get such a rouse, I apologize if one word offends you or makes you jump a gun at me.

As for the first question, not regarding you Joanna by the way, it was a mixture of the two. I was scared, yes, like anyone other person in my situation could be. I like to believe I allowed Him in, though I have issues here and there like any Christian for there are no perfect Christians. We all make mistakes, only Christ was perfect.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

Please tell me how I said that? Did I not state that we should warn them of their wrong doings and what would become of it of they didn't seek out Jesus for salvation? How exactly are those words a lie? It's true after all, sinners go to hell if they do not get saved by Jesus by repentance. But that doesn't mean they can't be saved because their sinners, they can. That's who salvation is for, us, people. No matter the sin, He forgives and accepts us all. It's up to us to decide if we want to be saved or not.

After all, though saved, we ourselves are still sinners in a way. We have to avoid sin of course, but that doesn't mean we don't sin once we get saved. It's impossible not to sin, but the only difference is we are forgiven by our Savior. They are not for they haven't prayed to be saved or receive salvation.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

Also, think of it this way. Someone will not want to be saved if all they're told is 'God hates you' 'You're filth' 'Go to hell!' They will think they are what they were called and be discouraged or even turned against God because of the hate that comes out of you alls mouth. But if they're told that God loves them and wants them to come to Him to be saved, so they don't perish, it'll make them want to come to God and be saved.

And it's true. God doesn't want ANYONE of His children to burn in hell, loves EVERYONE even if you think He doesn't. No one was or ever will be a mistake in His eyes.

(1 John 4)

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, because 17 love is from God, and everyone who loves 18 has been fathered 19 by God and knows God. 8 The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 20 9 By this 21 the love of God 22 is revealed in us: 23 that God has sent his one and only 24 Son into the world so that we may live through him. 10 In this 25 is love: not that 26 we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice 27 for our sins.
11 Dear friends, if God so loved us, then 28 we also ought to love one another. 29 12 No one has seen God at any time. 30 If we love one another, God resides 31 in us, and his love is perfected in us. 32 13 By this 33 we know that we reside in God 34 and he in us: in that he has given us of his Spirit. 35 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior 36 of the world.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

...But if they're told that God loves them...

That would be lying to them. God only loves those that love Him first, and True Christians™ show their love for Him by doing what He tells them to.

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

...God doesn't want ANYONE of His children to burn in hell...

Then why did He create Hell in the first place?

...loves EVERYONE even if you think He doesn't...

They think He doesn't love everyone because that's what the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

If you wish to dispute this, cite Scripture that shows they're wrong. Your "feelings" or "what you've always been told" are meaningless and worthless when compared to what the Bible says in plain English.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Stand Againist

Before you slander me or condemn me please listen. I am not here to flame or argue, any hate will be dealt with calmly and not with hate in return. Just have a open mind while you read, that's all I ask, thank you.

For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit; (*1 Peter *3:*10 ESV)

How do we expect the unsaved or lost to become saved if we show them hate and condemn them? We are suppose to lead others to the cross, not push them away. We are suppose to spread LOVE not hate.

Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (*1 Peter *3:*9 ESV)

Bless those who are different so that they may one day know God. Not curse them and shove them away form His love.

But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. (*Jude *1:*10 ESV)

This is what we become of we hate and judge, instead of love and lead. There are many other points, but this is one of them.

Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*15 ESV)

This is why I'm posting this. To warn you all, that hate isn't the way to go. Love is.

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*3 ESV)

This is true, but why do you all feel the need to guard yourselves with hateful comments and slander? Is it fear? You don't have to fear those different than you, yet understand them so you can show them love. Fear breeds hate, Jesus is Love not hate.

As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. (*James *4:*16 ESV)

Don't you see, when you boast about being a true Christian, that it is wrong to begin with? We should boast about God's ever loving grace! Not about ourselves!

and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, even as God also in Christ forgave you. (*Ephesians *4:*32 ASV)

If God forgives you, why you not forgive those who are different? We are to be kind and tender hearted to each other, to forgive. Like He has forgiven us.

To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” (*Romans *12:*20 ESV)

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (*Romans *12:*21 ESV)

So what if those who stand different than us curse us or hate us? Showing them kindness will confuse and kill them a lot quicker, hate will only grow into more hate.

Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? (*James *3:*11 ESV)

You CANNOT claim to love The Lord and not love like He did. You must love like Him, not hate others because they do not know Him. How can they know His love if you don't show it?

I am done here, have a lovely day or night. God bless, I shall pray for you all.

tl;dr

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[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

That would be lying to them. God only loves those that love Him first, and True Christians™ show their love for Him by doing what He tells them to.

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."



Then why did He create Hell in the first place?



They think He doesn't love everyone because that's what the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

If you wish to dispute this, cite Scripture that shows they're wrong. Your "feelings" or "what you've always been told" are meaningless and worthless when compared to what the Bible says in plain English.

Well let's begin with the first question, if I may. We all at one point weren't not saved, we all at one point didn't believe. After all in order to believe you have to disbelieve first right? No one is born automatically believing unless raised to do so by family.

Simple: He created Hell for Satan and his angels, and the wicked who reject Him.

So tell me, if you may, how does someone so wicked and sin drenched turned into the most devote Christian there is? If God doesn't love them then why show them His love by saving them?

I will stop this debate because this group makes me highly disappointed, to the point of wanting to stoop to your level. However I will not, I will defeat evil with good instead.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

Well let's begin with the first question, if I may. We all at one point weren't not saved, we all at one point didn't believe. After all in order to believe you have to disbelieve first right? No one is born automatically believing unless raised to do so by family...

Even then, the Bible says that you have to be able to accept Christ's sacrifice for you. An baby/infant/toddler is intellectually incapable of comprehending the question, it doesn't matter where they're raised.

...Simple: He created Hell for Satan and his angels, and the wicked who reject Him...

Rejecting Him does not have to be a conscious act, according to the Bible. Say you lived somewhere that had never had contact with Christians, the Bible, etc. The Bible says you're damned because you didn't believe. It doesn't give you an out for not even being aware of the offer.

...So tell me, if you may, how does someone so wicked and sin drenched turned into the most devote Christian there is?...

Self-deception, usually after a traumatic event in their lives. They can't deal with a universe that basically doesn't care about them, and start looking for reasons and explanations in a chaotic universe.

...If God doesn't love them then why show them His love by saving them?...

Does He? The Bible says you get into Heaven by being perfect:

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

...I will stop this debate because I've run out of things to bring to the table except my own feelings, which I've convinced myself align perfectly with those of God (overlooking the obvious "it's because I create God in my own mind" thing), and will now resort to a moral high ground fallacy, further weakening my own position...

FTFY.