[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

Hello to you, too! Welcome to our friendly forums! It's so nice to have you as our special guest!

Until your Salvation has been guaranteed, it's prudent to assume that like most people who consider themselves Christians, you also are riding the coal chute straight to Hell (Matthew 25:31-46). Surely you understand, the righteous simply do not hobnob with agents of darkness (2 Corinthians 6:14). If you think "unsaved trash" is mean, what do you think about Jesus calling you filthy, disgusting, crusty old menstrual rags (Isaiah 64:6)?

Well sure, everyone wants to feel special, don't they? Like the Creator of the Universe has His Eye on them, watching with love everything they do, rooting for them, cheering them on, comforting them from the recesses of some intangible corner of reality. You understand that just because you believe it to be so doesn't mean your belief corresponds to reality. The LORD tells us that the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else and to not trust it (Jeremiah 17:9). Your "testimony" is naught but personal assurances that your beliefs are True. What you need to trust dear, is the Holy Bible. That's all we trust, and if you are truly one of the elect, we'll know. In the meantime, be patient. It's not hard for one who has actually been given the fruits of the Spirit of Christ (Galatians 5:22-23).

Personally, I'm curious if you do fit the qualifications of one Truly Saved. Do you believe Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant? All of it, or just the parts you think make sense in conjunction with the knowledge and ethical standards of a 21st century, western civilization model of morality? Have you seen a doctor since your supposed Born Again experience (James 5:14-15)? Have you avoided all claims of science (1 Timothy 6:20 )? Have you continually shunned and rebuked unbelievers (Ephesians 5:11)? Do you love Jesus enough to follow His commands (John 14:15 )? Every one of them (Matthew 5:17)? Have you sold your house and all your things (Mark 10:21)? Are you typing on a computer at the local library, or do you own the one you are using, and if you own it, will you sell it forthwith?

I was truly saved as you put it long before you were born. The center of my life is Jesus Christ, and nothing I have said alters that. You have no right to doubt my salvation. I understand the commands of Jesus. It seems from your explanation of salvation there is a lot of do's and don'ts. We are saved by grace through faith only. The Holy Spirit guides us from there. There seems to be a mean streak that Christ never meant. He did not talk that way to the woman at the well or the woman who was caught in adultery. For example, the guy that needs a razor called me a liar when I told him I was a deacon and Sunday School teacher. He had no basis to say that. It was unChrist like, mean, and degrading. Christ is the center of my life as I said above, and I try to walk the narrow road daily. As far as what I give to my local church, it is a tithe plus. That is between me, the church and the Lord.


I am also amazed at all the patriotic talk. I will guess over 90% of your posters never served one day. I think the infractions I got are without justification, as I just lobbed back insult for insult. I do not know what the confederate flag or guns has to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I grew up in Mississippi, and some of the things I saw as far as treating African Americans was outrageous, and breaks the Second Great Commandment. There is nothing proud about flying a confederate flag and waving a gun like a maniac. I have several hundred, but they are for proper use. They are not toys.


There is nothing more sickening members mixing the United States of America with the Gospel, especially those who never served. They have no idea what the price of freedom and liberty is.


Now, I did not vote for Obama either time, but I have a question for your members about the 2012 election. Do they realize that the ones that voted for Mitt Romney voted for a man that is a member of a cult that denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, and the fact that Christ is God. Also, Romney when governor of MA was pro abortion, pro gay rights, pro gun control and pro government health care. Then when he ran for President he switched on all four overnight. So if one voted for him, one voted for a liar heretic.


Christ is the center of my life, I will repeat it again. No one here has the right to question my faith. I will tone down the wording. I would appreciate you or someone removing the infractions, and I am deeply sorry for the words I used. It is just the reasonable thing to do when one questions salvation, calls me a liar for no reason, or calls me trash. You have my word on toning down the posts.

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

Not questioning, friend; investigating and verifying. Trust, but verify is our motto. Still, you seem angry, Let me refer you to Ecclesiastes 7:9 as an antidote to your angst. Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools- God.

Of course I am angry. I was called a liar for no reason by Cranky Claus, called trash, and most questioning my salvation. I deeply resent that. No where in Scripture is that a teaching of Jesus Christ.

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

I have prayed about this and want to apologize to all who I insulted. I am not used to being called names like this. I am an admin for a group larger than this one, so I understand each group has its own rules. In this group, questioning another persons faith is an immediate ban. I was wrong to insult all of you despite what you said. I would appreciate it if you would chalk this up to being a new person here, and humbly ask that the infractions be removed, and I can post in threads now. Again, from prayer, I am apologizing.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Hello

I have prayed about this and want to apologize to all who I insulted. I am not used to being called names like this. I am an admin for a group larger than this one, so I understand each group has its own rules. In this group, questioning another persons faith is an immediate ban. I was wrong to insult all of you despite what you said. I would appreciate it if you would chalk this up to being a new person here, and humbly ask that the infractions be removed, and I can post in threads now. Again, from prayer, I am apologizing.

Your apology is accepted, young man. Any groups not dedicated to the praise of Jesus Christ are inconsequential, yet I have seen fit to give you just a little bit of positive reputation.


The infractionations CAN be removed, praise Jesus, once you have proven that you are are here to serve Him. Although I don't see much Scripture?


Friend, I was a gay by choice for 40 years. And He saved me. Can you believe it?? I chose to pack mud and swallow filthy gay seed every single day, yet I am saved!


When you open your Holy Bible tonight, what precious verse moves you to make a real difference in your life and turn to Him?


In Christ

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

Your apology is accepted, young man. Any groups not dedicated to the praise of Jesus Christ are inconsequential, yet I have seen fit to give you just a little bit of positive reputation.


The infractionations CAN be removed, praise Jesus, once you have proven that you are are here to serve Him. Although I don't see much Scripture?


Friend, I was a gay by choice for 40 years. And He saved me. Can you believe it?? I chose to pack mud and swallow filthy gay seed every single day, yet I am saved!


When you open your Holy Bible tonight, what precious verse moves you to make a real difference in your life and turn to Him?


In Christ

I appreciate the kind words. It is the first positive response I have gotten. I read the Bible daily, as if for nothing else, it takes a lot of study to teach a Sunday School Class. I guess the questioning of my salvation and the fact I am a deacon just hit me wrong. I have been married 39 years to one woman. My kids are Christians. I do not know what else to say other than Christ is the center of my life. I walk a narrow road daily guided by the Holy Spirit to become more Christ like. I guess it is going to take some time for gain peoples trust. I promised I was not going to lob an insult at anyone regardless of what they say. That is all I can do. My life speaks for itself.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Hello

Dear Friend,

You seem to be taking your faith seriously which is laudable and promising. There is an actual and not an exceedingly tiny possibility that you may be a True™ follower of Christ but that remains to be seen. I have a couple of points that should be discussed regarding your recent reply.

There seems to be a mean streak that Christ never meant. He did not talk that way to the woman at the well or the woman who was caught in adultery.

Now, it is a bit hard to know what verses you're pointing at without Scriptural reference, but I surmise that the first one would be John 4 about the Samaritan woman, or is it? In that pericope Jesus is just being politely straightforward to warn the woman about the shape of things to come. Perhaps you're referring to Mark 7:27
But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Indeed, the most authoritative Biblical text (the KJV) is quite clear here. Jesus is using strong language towards this woman.

Are you implying that the Greek textual variants would cast some doubt on the authenticity of this verse? let us see:
Nestle 1904 is the golden standard for the modern (and quite suspicious) exegetic scholars. It says. "καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτῇ Ἄφες πρῶτον χορτασθῆναι τὰ τέκνα· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν καλόν λαβεῖν τὸν ἄρτον τῶν τέκνων καὶ τοῖς κυναρίοις βαλεῖν [the emphasis in bold typeface translates as "to the dogs to cast it"]. Now, the variants of this text are only variations in word order. In quite a few versions (Byzantine text, Textus Receptus) the last phrase reads as "βαλεῖν τοῖς κυναρίοις". As the Greek does not need prepositions in this phrase (the κυναρίοις is a neuter dative plural) the word order change is meaningless and, thus, Jesus really said it (unless... but we'll discuss that below).

The next pericope is undoubtedly John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

This is a tricky one, as the pericope is actually missing from P66, and from P75, and from Sinaiticus, and Vaticanus. Should we thus determine that Jesus really did not say that? In fact, by following the first steps that the exegetics take, that is the one valid conclusion based on their criteria:

-Elder scrolls take precedence.
-Stylistically, the Gospel of John is a "mess" with divergent styles and two endings of which the latter one is "clearly" an addition.

Of course, that is nonsense. If we start following those steps, we'd see that there are 5800 Greek manuscripts all of which are different (5800 that we know of, and we can confidently assume that many more were lost). Not a single sentence is identical in all these manuscripts. This would make the compilation of an accurate "ancient original Bible" a job of random assembly even after educated guesses. There would be (factorial of 5800) ~1.79960751^19311 texts to choose from, a figure that would make the probability of our having a True™ Bible much more unlikely that the evolutionist heresy having it right when they refer to the random assembly of life. Unthinkable. Unless you think that we do have uncertainty with these passages. Where would you certainty of Jesus Christ having ever been on Earth would then be based on, as all the Bible would be more or less uncertain. How could you distinguish between false inner feelings and the Real Feeling of Jesus whispering to you? Perhaps you could, but could you expect anyone else to trust you on that?

It is obvious that (regarding the John pericope) these original lines were suppressed for a while in order not to give the harlots of that time any idea that Jesus would be endorsing adultery. Regarding the Mark pericope, it is clear that Jesus used strong language - if we trust the Bible. Ever heard of vipers? Obviously, if you do not trust this, all this discussion is insignificant.

I'd still like to assess your concept of faith being adequate per se. How do you approach some non-Pauline Episteles in that regard?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

How can you be sure that you're not falling into THIS trap?

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The End of Times is near. Of course we need Faith. We're about to be judged based on the things written in the Book of Life. What are the things that count come Judgment?

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

Dear Friend,

You seem to be taking your faith seriously which is laudable and promising. There is an actual and not an exceedingly tiny possibility that you may be a True™ follower of Christ but that remains to be seen. I have a couple of points that should be discussed regarding your recent reply.

Now, it is a bit hard to know what verses you're pointing at without Scriptural reference, but I surmise that the first one would be John 4 about the Samaritan woman, or is it? In that pericope Jesus is just being politely straightforward to warn the woman about the shape of things to come. Perhaps you're referring to Mark 7:27
But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Indeed, the most authoritative Biblical text (the KJV) is quite clear here. Jesus is using strong language towards this woman.

Are you implying that the Greek textual variants would cast some doubt on the authenticity of this verse? let us see:
Nestle 1904 is the golden standard for the modern (and quite suspicious) exegetic scholars. It says. "καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτῇ Ἄφες πρῶτον χορτασθῆναι τὰ τέκνα· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν καλόν λαβεῖν τὸν ἄρτον τῶν τέκνων καὶ τοῖς κυναρίοις βαλεῖν [the emphasis in bold typeface translates as "to the dogs to cast it"]. Now, the variants of this text are only variations in word order. In quite a few versions (Byzantine text, Textus Receptus) the last phrase reads as "βαλεῖν τοῖς κυναρίοις". As the Greek does not need prepositions in this phrase (the κυναρίοις is a neuter dative plural) the word order change is meaningless and, thus, Jesus really said it (unless... but we'll discuss that below).

The next pericope is undoubtedly John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

This is a tricky one, as the pericope is actually missing from P66, and from P75, and from Sinaiticus, and Vaticanus. Should we thus determine that Jesus really did not say that? In fact, by following the first steps that the exegetics take, that is the one valid conclusion based on their criteria:

-Elder scrolls take precedence.
-Stylistically, the Gospel of John is a "mess" with divergent styles and two endings of which the latter one is "clearly" an addition.

Of course, that is nonsense. If we start following those steps, we'd see that there are 5800 Greek manuscripts all of which are different (5800 that we know of, and we can confidently assume that many more were lost). Not a single sentence is identical in all these manuscripts. This would make the compilation of an accurate "ancient original Bible" a job of random assembly even after educated guesses. There would be (factorial of 5800) ~1.79960751^19311 texts to choose from, a figure that would make the probability of our having a True™ Bible much more unlikely that the evolutionist heresy having it right when they refer to the random assembly of life. Unthinkable. Unless you think that we do have uncertainty with these passages. Where would you certainty of Jesus Christ having ever been on Earth would then be based on, as all the Bible would be more or less uncertain. How could you distinguish between false inner feelings and the Real Feeling of Jesus whispering to you? Perhaps you could, but could you expect anyone else to trust you on that?

It is obvious that (regarding the John pericope) these original lines were suppressed for a while in order not to give the harlots of that time any idea that Jesus would be endorsing adultery. Regarding the Mark pericope, it is clear that Jesus used strong language - if we trust the Bible. Ever heard of vipers? Obviously, if you do not trust this, all this discussion is insignificant.

I'd still like to assess your concept of faith being adequate per se. How do you approach some non-Pauline Episteles in that regard?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

How can you be sure that you're not falling into THIS trap?

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The End of Times is near. Of course we need Faith. We're about to be judged based on the things written in the Book of Life. What are the things that count come Judgment?

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

There is a lot of doctrine there in your post. In James, the relationship between faith and works is quite clear. Before salvation, works is as filthy rags in the sight of God. After salvation, works that are Godly must come about as a natural byproduct of salvation. Pew sitters and non attenders show there is no desire to serve the Lord, and are therefore not saved in the first place.


Yes, I agree with the post about the woman at the well and the one caught in adultery. There are two times that Jesus shows visible anger, the money changers at the church, and the Pharisees. Centering on the Pharisees, this is the same struggle that goes on today between the world and Jesus Christ. The difference is clear. A Pharisee (worldly person today) does not put his faith in Christ. A Pharisee puts himself at the center of his life. For example, when praying on the street corners, they would squint their eyes to see who was looking. They memorize a bunch of rules then try to obey them under their own power, and fail every time. A Christian follows the guidance of the Holy Spirit to become more like Jesus each day. Christ is the center of their lives, and the poser of the Holy Spirit allows them to do so, as they avoid temptation. Of course from time to time we will fail but we ask forgiveness.


As to the question of faith, this gets complicated. Romans 10:17 states that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Man's free will is bounded by his fallen state. He cannot respond to nor is he interested in anything spiritual. When the Holy Spirit convicts someone of their sin (touched by a divine source), he can now put his faith in Christ, by grace through faith, and come to salvation. Everything about salvation is a work of the Lord, the faith, the gift of eternal life, sanctification, the whole process. We do not know how mans free will and sovereignty work together, but they do just fine, as God created the process. IMO the endless argument between Calvinists and Arminians is a total waste of time. How many more would be saved if all that time had been spent telling others about Jesus.


About sinning after salvation, John tells us if we say we have no sin, we are lying. Christ changes lives. We go from making pet sins the center of our lives before salvation, to putting Christ as the center after salvation. We sin very rarely, and when we do we ask for forgiveness and go on.

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

My apologies to all whom I insulted. Please chalk it up to being new and not understanding your rules. They are quite different from the group I administer. Christ is the center of my life and again, I apologize for the lousy start.

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Hello

I am quite happy to accept your apologies Captain America. I am a Black man and so I am well used to being insulted by white people. Usually they do not apologize and more often they throw something at me.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello

Christ is the center of my life, I will repeat it again. No one here has the right to question my faith.

You're confused, dear. Not only do we have every right to question your Salvation, we are commanded to do just that (2nd Timothy 4:1-5). This is this our duty and we've been given special instructions to do it properly (John 7:24). While some may argue this is all in preparation for our eternal future (1st Corinthians 6:2-3), I believe it is to protect the Body of Christ from cancerous beliefs (Romans 16:17; 1st Corinthians 5:12-13; Leviticus 24:14-16).

As far as the faith being a list of dos and don'ts, again you are confused. We don't check off a list of behaviors to which we are allowed to engage, or must avoid. We simply act in a way natural for the True Christian™. You see, when one has been truly regenerated in the Spirit of Christ, one cannot sin (1st John 3:6-9). If you're teaching your Sunday School class that after Salvation one may still find themselves in need of confession, repentance, and asking for forgiveness, you are teaching contrary to Jesus' Promise (1st John 5:18) and have marked yourself as a most despicable kind of human (Luke 17:2). Those souls you are corrupting belong to Christ, and He will not be happy to see you tarnish them against Him (Exodus 20:15).

When Christ looks as a truly Saved person, He sees a reflection of Himself. When I look at you, I don't see a reflection of Christ, I see a stubborn, irascible, resentful old man who tries to hide his shame. Christ was never ashamed. Think about it.

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

You're confused, dear. Not only do we have every right to question your Salvation, we are commanded to do just that (2nd Timothy 4:1-5). This is this our duty and we've been given special instructions to do it properly (John 7:24). While some may argue this is all in preparation for our eternal future (1st Corinthians 6:2-3), I believe it is to protect the Body of Christ from cancerous beliefs (Romans 16:17; 1st Corinthians 5:12-13; Leviticus 24:14-16).

As far as the faith being a list of dos and don'ts, again you are confused. We don't check off a list of behaviors to which we are allowed to engage, or must avoid. We simply act in a way natural for the True Christian™. You see, when one has been truly regenerated in the Spirit of Christ, one cannot sin (1st John 3:6-9). If you're teaching your Sunday School class that after Salvation one may still find themselves in need of confession, repentance, and asking for forgiveness, you are teaching contrary to Jesus' Promise (1st John 5:18) and have marked yourself as a most despicable kind of human (Luke 17:2). Those souls you are corrupting belong to Christ, and He will not be happy to see you tarnish them against Him (Exodus 20:15).

When Christ looks as a truly Saved person, He sees a reflection of Himself. When I look at you, I don't see a reflection of Christ, I see a stubborn, irascible, resentful old man who tries to hide his shame. Christ was never ashamed. Think about it.

If we say we have no sin, we are lying to God as in 1 John 8.
7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…


Personally I think this whole web site is set up to mock people that are saved.

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

Everyone of you are heretics and blasphemers. Mary, or whoever you are, I see you in the Lake of Fire.

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Hello

Everyone of you are heretics and blasphemers. Mary, or whoever you are, I see you in the Lake of Fire.

Does this mean you are taking back your apologies?

[CaptainKangaroo]

Re: Hello

I did not type that. Someone has my password.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello

If we say we have no sin, we are lying to God as in 1 John 8...

1 John 8 DOES NOT EXIST. Please proofread your posts to catch stupid errors like that, thanks.

1 John 1:7-9 is the passage in question.

...7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…

So which is it? Verse 7 says that Jesus removes your sin (after confession, per verse 9). You claim that the Saved still have sin, contradicting verse 7. The only way this passage makes sense (read as a whole), is that verse 8 is talking about before confession (and being Saved), as the True Christians™ claim.

...Personally I think this whole web site is set up to mock people that are saved.

Even if that were the case, the Bible says you should be happy for it to exist:

2 Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

It says "shall", not "may". With no persecution, you ain't Christian, so get on with the learning to love being hated (like the True Christians™).

Everyone of you are heretics and blasphemers...

Though they all justify their answers with appropriate Scripture, read coherently and in context, something you have yet to display? Riiight.

...Mary, or whoever you are, I see you in the Lake of Fire.

Mary (like any Christian who has read the Bible and understands what it says) doesn't give a shit what you think. See my previous response in this thread.