[Pim Pendergast]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He wanted the eden paradise to last but unfortnuelty that didnt happen. The snake caused Adam and Eve to mess it all up for us. And once they did God realized he had to change his entire plan and save humanity.

If God is not sovereign, if things can happen that He doesn't expect or doesn't want, and if His first plan was thwarted, then how can we trust His current plan of salvation?

They are not of the age of accountability.

Where does the Bible mention the age of accountability or age of understanding? Chapter and verse, please.

Babies are automatically in Gods good grace when they are unborn and when they are born. Stop twisting scripture

Esau was not under God's grace. God hated him before he was even born.

Rom 9:11-13
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto [Rebecca], The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


The Bible makes it clear that some people were before of old – i.e., before they were born – ordained to condemnation.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pro 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

You'll have no idea how many baptists I have seen on internet forums or even videos say that they would comfort parents who have lost a child or a brother who has lost a baby sister and they believed that babies are in heaven

Well, if someone's said it on the Internet, it must be true!

It's just a lie to comfort people who are grieving. Like doggie heaven.

Unbaptized babies are innocent of sin they dont have the capacity to sin

James 2:10 is really reaching there. Babies are not guilty of anything!

You seem to be forgetting that sin is not just doing something bad but failing to do what is good. There are sins of omission and sins of commission. Babies may be incapable of doing some bad things, but they are also incapable of doing anything good. Indeed, without God's intervention, all people are by nature incapable of doing good. We are born this way.

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Those who sin wilfully will be punished more severely than those who sin in ignorance, but the ignorant will still be punished.

Lk 12:47-4847 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Also child baptism does work so stop.

What evidence do you have to show that sprinkling water on a baby's head "works"?

I've already repeated this and I'll say this for the last time babies are forgiven of original sin.

What a strange thing to say! If babies have no original sin, and cannot sin, why would they need to be forgiven?

Matthew 5:17-20 is only mentioning the Torah.

No, it isn't.

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law [Torah], or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Babies do not speak lies they do not have verbal capacity

Well, the Bible says they do, so I believe it, even though I have never heard a baby lie before and don't know anyone who has. I know the Author of the Bible, and He doesn't lie. Nothing would change my mind on the matter.

Also John 9:41 was written way after Psalm 58:3. The new testament has in some areas done away with old testament precedent with the birth death and resurrection of Yeshua! So just like most christoans don't have to do alter offerings anymore then that also means that the that scripture doesnt apply anymore!

Jesus declared all food clean (Mk 7:18-19) and rendered sacrifices obsolete (Heb 10:1-18). That means we don't have to observe Old Testament dietary and ceremonial laws, but the Old Testament still applies to Christians today. There is nowhere in the New Testament that says Psalm 58:3 no longer applies.

Indeed, even some of the most obscure laws contain valuable instruction for the Christian (2 Tim 3:16). For example. Paul quotes Deuteronomy 25:4 to show that he is worthy of being paid for his work as an Apostle.

1 Cor 9:9-10
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

And someone just moved the goalposts halfway to Kolob.

:/

[Didymus Much]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Unsaved babies cant admit God as their personal savior as they are babies and cant speak. They are innocent! Stop believing a calvanist lie


Christian's are going to the new earth while the new heaven will possibly be easily accessible

And someone just moved the goalposts halfway to Kolob.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Ahem, yes, there is a "new earth" mentioned in Revelations, but it was only stared at, nobody's actually going there.

True Christians™ are going to Heaven. ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ) You on the otherhand will enjoy Hell with all the Unsaved babies who failed to admit Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, even in gobbled baby speak.

Unsaved babies cant admit God as their personal savior as they are babies and cant speak. They are innocent! Stop believing a calvanist lie


Christian's are going to the new earth while the new heaven will possibly be easily accessible

[Jim C. Lombardo]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

It not being mainstream doesnt mean that it's true. Also plenty more people are going to be on the new earth than that

Ahem, yes, there is a "new earth" mentioned in Revelations, but it was only stared at, nobody's actually going there.

True Christians™ are going to Heaven. ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ) You on the otherhand will enjoy Hell with all the Unsaved babies who failed to admit Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, even in gobbled baby speak.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

And that small portion is the 1% God's Elect here at Landover Baptist Church who will inherit the Kingdom of God. ( Matthew 7:14 ) Glory!

It not being mainstream doesnt mean that it's true. Also plenty more people are going to be on the new earth than that

[Jim C. Lombardo]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

It's not my opinion. I have demonstrated biblical proof that babies go to heaven.


Infant damnation is a false belief and most denominations of christianity dont believe in it. Even if some do it's a small portion.

And that small portion is the 1% God's Elect here at Landover Baptist Church who will inherit the Kingdom of God. ( Matthew 7:14 ) Glory!

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Mr. Failure's idea of a good argument is by merit of spouting their opinion in the post entry box, therefore it's true.

It's not my opinion. I have demonstrated biblical proof that babies go to heaven.


Infant damnation is a false belief and most denominations of christianity dont believe in it. Even if some do it's a small portion.

[Jim C. Lombardo]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Mr. Failure's idea of a good argument is by merit of spouting their opinion in the post entry box, therefore it's true.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Hello Mr. Failure. We have interacted briefly before, and I kept reading this thread with much interest.

However, it seems to me that nobody is going to want to engage in a discourse with you as you continue to ignore the rules of discussion as presented by Mr. T. Harvey Jr. Here is the graphic from that thread:





Now, the only thing you have done so far is to ignore rebuttals of your arguments. Also, while loads of Scripture have been presented to you showing that God sends babies to Hell, you did not present a single verse which actually says "God sends dead babies to Heaven." You just keep ignoring the Scripture which you don't like.


However, the Bible says what it says, rather than what you would like it to say. Hence, if you are really committed to ignoring large parts of the Bible, you have to reject the notion that it was inspired by God, and thus question everything that is written in it. Not only the "babies go to Hell" part, but also parts about Jesus' existence.


Because you cannot pick and chose which parts of the Bible you like. As a Christian, you are obligated to believe all Bible, even the really ugly parts of it.

Yes I HAVE shown several scriptures that show babies go to heaven. Go back and read them.


Babies do not go to hell they are free of original sin


I have responded to all of the rebuttals that were sent to me it's just that I'm not going to do it again because its tiring so that's why I was responding like that.


I'm not ignoring scripture I dont like I have responded to all of it as a whole in earlier posts


I do pick and choose because some verses from the old testament are not viable anymore due to the the trial death and resurrection of Yeshua


I have presented all of the evidence which proves babies go to heaven in earlier posts I'm just not doing it now becauseit's already on record


Ugh

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Stop coughing out verses like a computer I know them all and I have already refuted the infant damnation theory.

(more erratic ramblings removed for brevity)

Hello Mr. Failure. We have interacted briefly before, and I kept reading this thread with much interest.

However, it seems to me that nobody is going to want to engage in a discourse with you as you continue to ignore the rules of discussion as presented by Mr. T. Harvey Jr. Here is the graphic from that thread:





Now, the only thing you have done so far is to ignore rebuttals of your arguments. Also, while loads of Scripture have been presented to you showing that God sends babies to Hell, you did not present a single verse which actually says "God sends dead babies to Heaven." You just keep ignoring the Scripture which you don't like.


However, the Bible says what it says, rather than what you would like it to say. Hence, if you are really committed to ignoring large parts of the Bible, you have to reject the notion that it was inspired by God, and thus question everything that is written in it. Not only the "babies go to Hell" part, but also parts about Jesus' existence.


Because you cannot pick and chose which parts of the Bible you like. As a Christian, you are obligated to believe all Bible, even the really ugly parts of it.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Romans 5:12-15
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

I'm not saying that 2 Timothy 3:16 is wrong of coarse all of the scripture is inspired by God but that doesn't mean that some of it has no bearing anymore because some of it just doesnt.


Just like how Christians dont have to sacrifice animals do to the death of jesus is also how infant damnation isnt believed anymore


Infants are free from original sin as I think God would understand that they have no idea what's going on around them or what bad stuff Is or how to do it. I've been over this before so I'm really not going to bother refuting Roman's 5:12-15 plus theres Jesus's saying of let the little children come to me which means that we shouldn't stop children from believing and also that we must be like little children if we are to recieve heaven which means that babies GO TO HEAVEN


More Proverbs sayings huh? Okay

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Your using psalms 51:5 even when I already have proven enough evidence that it's not viable anymore.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 5:17-20 is only mentioning the Torah and that's a whole other discussion on it's own. Matthew 5:17-20 isnt really good to defend infant damnation though try something else

Romans 5:12-15
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Babies do not speak lies they do not have verbal capacity

Are you using Proverbs 6:16-19 as a reference to me? I'm flattered so here's ten reasons why I dont care:

1.

Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:16-17
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Romans 5:12-15
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Exodus 20:16 - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Your using psalms 51:5 even when I already have proven enough evidence that it's not viable anymore.


Matthew 5:17-20 is only mentioning the Torah and that's a whole other discussion on it's own. Matthew 5:17-20 isnt really good to defend infant damnation though try something else


Babies do not speak lies they do not have verbal capacity


Are you using Proverbs 6:16-19 as a reference to me? I'm flattered so here's ten reasons why I dont care:


1.

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Stop coughing out verses like a computer I know them all and I have already refuted the infant damnation theory.

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Funny your quoting scripture from a CHRISTIAN bible yet your defending a calvanist belief which has no biblical basis.

John 3:5 does not apply to infants whove died before a baptism Ive already been over this they do not have the capacity to sin

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Also please dont go their with Deutronony 4:2 it's not cute or clever. The old testament was written way before the new testament and its obvious the new testament did a way with a few things.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:16-17
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

James 2:10 is really reaching there. Babies are not guilty of anything!

Romans 5:12-15
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

You dont have an argument anymore if you really cant refute my argument anymore than you have tried. Nice going though.

Exodus 20:16 - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

I give your argument a rating of 5/10 refuted and proven false

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.