[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He created the universe and everything in it, God-mocker. And if He didn't create evil, why does He explicitly say He created evil in Isaiah 45:7? You still haven't answered that one. Are you calling God a liar?

It came from the tree not God

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Evil was not created by God. It wasnt created by him indirectly

Wrong. (Btw, I really dig the double negative - looks like your subconsciousness knows I'm right).
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It came from the tree not God

Wrong. Read my post. Will larger font and color coding help?

In green is the stuff originating at the tree.
In red is the stuff made directly by God.

Like I already said, only the knowledge came from the tree. The evil itself was created by God! I already provided the Scripture that says so.

Why do you hate God so much that you want to see Him as a pathetic, inept, powerless being that has no control whatsoever over the world?

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Wrong. (Btw, I really dig the double negative - looks like your subconsciousness knows I'm right).
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Wrong. Read my post. Will larger font and color coding help?

In green is the stuff originating at the tree.
In red is the stuff made directly by God.

He made the tree that's it. Now stop

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He made the tree that's it. Now stop

Alright sorry that came off a bit rude like. Here let's try again.


I think that these parts are missworded because if he did create evil then sorry but that would be a huge contradiction about sin about everything. If he created evil does that mean he wanted all of this to happen. Do you honestly think he would have wanted all of the death and dying to be going on? No!


He wanted the eden paradise to last but unfortnuelty that didnt happen. The snake caused Adam and Eve to mess it all up for us. And once they did God realized he had to change his entire plan and save humanity.


Adam and Eve listening to the snakes advice caused World War II the Holocaust, the Kent state shooting 9/11 the Boston marathon bombing famine the plague cancer aids ALS Diabetes Autism Corrupt politicians, shaming of nudists and everything in between.


God created something perfect and the snake made Adam and Eve ruin it all for us! We wouldnt be here right now if it wasnt for them. We could have all been chilling out with God but nooooo Adam and Eve just had to listen to the snake even after he told them NOT TO DO IT! HE WARNED THEM BUT THEY DIDNT LISTEN THEY LISTENED TO THE SNAKE

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Alright sorry that came off a bit rude like. Here let's try again.

If you really wish. I appreciate a long reply this time, thank you.

I think that these parts are missworded

The Bible is misworded? If one verse of the Bible is misworded, how do you know that the rest is not misworded as well?

That is a very slippery slope, my dear. What you are implying, is that Bible is not true - that means there was no Adam and Eve, no Jesus, and there is no God, either.

Is that really the position you want to assume?

because if he did create evil then sorry but that would be a huge contradiction about sin about everything.

Why? The Bible tells us that God loves human suffering:

Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

God does not specify what is it that He likes the most about war - is it the smell of rotting corpses, the sight of guts all over the ground, maybe cries of dying women and children (Hosea 13:16). However, when you read books such as Deuteronomy, Numbers, and Joshua, you will soon realize that God really enjoys war. And I hope we both can agree that war is evil.

If he created evil does that mean he wanted all of this to happen. Do you honestly think he would have wanted all of the death and dying to be going on? No!

I don't think, I just read the Bible.

This is what the Bible says:

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

See? Everything evil that happens, it is God's Will. Also, remember the story of Job? God made him suffer terribly, simply because He made a bet with the devil:

Job 1:6-12
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

He wanted the eden paradise to last but unfortnuelty that didnt happen.

If He really did want the Eden (not the Paradise, these are two different things) to last, then why did He create the tree of knowledge?

The snake caused Adam and Eve to mess it all up for us.

Who made the snake so cunning, that he was able to convince Eve?

And once they did God realized he had to change his entire plan

You are sinning by denying that God knows everything, again.

and save humanity.

Not all humanity - just a very tiny portion of it:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That means all people who were born and died in areas where they never heard from missionaries (such as the entire population of the Americas before Columbus), are condemned.
That also means all babies who died in their infancy before they were able to accept Jesus as their Savior, are condemned.
That also means all people of non-Christian religions, even the most decent ones, are condemned.

Adam and Eve listening to the snakes advice caused World War II the Holocaust, the Kent state shooting 9/11 the Boston marathon bombing famine the plague cancer aids ALS Diabetes Autism Corrupt politicians, shaming of nudists and everything in between.

No.

God created the evil that could be known.
God created the tree that allowed the knowledge of evil.
God created the serpent which tempted Eve.

Do you see a pattern, there?

God created something perfect and the snake made Adam and Eve ruin it all for us!

I will ask again, who made the snake?

We wouldnt be here right now if it wasnt for them. We could have all been chilling out with God but nooooo Adam and Eve just had to listen to the snake even after he told them NOT TO DO IT! HE WARNED THEM BUT THEY DIDNT LISTEN THEY LISTENED TO THE SNAKE

I don't think there would be much space in Eden if Adam and Eve didn't try the fruit - just imagine, all people having lots and lots of babies and never dying, God would have to move all of us to another much larger planet!



When you think of it, maybe that's why God created evil, the tree of knowledge of it, and the serpent: to avoid that headache of dealing with billions upon billions upon billions of immortal humans.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

If you really wish. I appreciate a long reply this time, thank you.

The Bible is misworded? If one verse of the Bible is misworded, how do you know that the rest is not misworded as well?

That is a very slippery slope, my dear. What you are implying, is that Bible is not true - that means there was no Adam and Eve, no Jesus, and there is no God, either.

Is that really the position you want to assume?

Why? The Bible tells us that God loves human suffering:

Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

God does not specify what is it that He likes the most about war - is it the smell of rotting corpses, the sight of guts all over the ground, maybe cries of dying women and children (Hosea 13:16). However, when you read books such as Deuteronomy, Numbers, and Joshua, you will soon realize that God really enjoys war. And I hope we both can agree that war is evil.

I don't think, I just read the Bible.

This is what the Bible says:

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

See? Everything evil that happens, it is God's Will. Also, remember the story of Job? God made him suffer terribly, simply because He made a bet with the devil:

Job 1:6-12
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

If He really did want the Eden (not the Paradise, these are two different things) to last, then why did He create the tree of knowledge?

Who made the snake so cunning, that he was able to convince Eve?

You are sinning by denying that God knows everything, again.

Not all humanity - just a very tiny portion of it:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That means all people who were born and died in areas where they never heard from missionaries (such as the entire population of the Americas before Columbus), are condemned.
That also means all babies who died in their infancy before they were able to accept Jesus as their Savior, are condemned.
That also means all people of non-Christian religions, even the most decent ones, are condemned.

No.

God created the evil that could be known.
God created the tree that allowed the knowledge of evil.
God created the serpent which tempted Eve.

Do you see a pattern, there?

I will ask again, who made the snake?

I don't think there would be much space in Eden if Adam and Eve didn't try the fruit - just imagine, all people having lots and lots of babies and never dying, God would have to move all of us to another much larger planet!



When you think of it, maybe that's why God created evil, the tree of knowledge of it, and the serpent: to avoid that headache of dealing with billions upon billions upon billions of immortal humans.

I'm not saying the bible is missworded I'm saying its Adam and eve's and the snakes fault not gods I still refuse to believe it.


Also infant damnation is a false teaching. Theirs a very good article debunking that. It's a calvanist lie

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

I'm not saying the bible is missworded I'm saying its Adam and eve's and the snakes fault not gods I still refuse to believe it.

If you don't want to believe what the Bible says, that's not my problem. I hope you like hot destinations, because will be your final destination. I did my best to bring you back to God, but you have your free will to not accept God and His Word.

Also infant damnation is a false teaching. Theirs a very good article debunking that. It's a calvanist lie

So are you saying that John 3:18 doesn't say what it says?

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

If you don't want to believe what the Bible says, that's not my problem. I hope you like hot destinations, because will be your final destination. I did my best to bring you back to God, but you have your free will to not accept God and His Word.

So are you saying that John 3:18 doesn't say what it says?

John 3:18 does say what it says but its twisted around by people who defend the infant damnation belief if you could just give me a second I'll show you what I mean

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

John 3:18 does say what it says but its twisted around by people who defend the infant damnation belief if you could just give me a second I'll show you what I mean

If you give me a minute I'll debunk the belief

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

John 3:18 does say what it says but its twisted around by people who defend the infant damnation belief if you could just give me a second I'll show you what I mean

If you give me a minute I'll debunk the belief

We have now (at the time of writing) given you a little over an hour and a half. How are you getting on?

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

We have now (at the time of writing) given you a little over an hour and a half. How are you getting on?

According to Genesis 1:27, all human beings are created in the Image of God. All human beings are eligible for heaven as anyone else. We have been designed to enjoy communion with him. We have been designed to communicate with him.


Also an unborn baby murdered by an abortion would definitely go to heaven. So the same logic applies to infants that die that have been born. They also go to heaven.


Also Matthew 18:1-3 says


"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus saying, sho is the greatest in heaven?


And Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them and said,


Verily I say unto you Except you be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."


If babies dont go to heaven then why would Jesus say that to his disciples? You dkbt honestly believe he lied fo them do you?!


And that is why children go to heaven

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

According to Genesis 1:27, all human beings are created in the Image of God. All human beings are eligible for heaven as anyone else. We have been designed to enjoy communion with him. We have been designed to communicate with him.


Also an unborn baby murdered by an abortion would definitely go to heaven. So the same logic applies to infants that die that have been born. They also go to heaven.


Also Matthew 18:1-3 says


"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus saying, sho is the greatest in heaven?


And Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them and said,


Verily I say unto you Except you be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."


If babies dont go to heaven then why would Jesus say that to his disciples? You dkbt honestly believe he lied fo them do you?!


And that is why children go to heaven

And that's why all infants go to heaven. Theirs no viable argument for infant damnation. It doesn't matter if they are aborted or murdered while out of the womb they will still get to heaven because they are innocent and cant comprehend the act of sinning. They are not of the age of accountability.

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

According to Genesis 1:27, all human beings are created in the Image of God. All human beings are eligible for heaven as anyone else. We have been designed to enjoy communion with him. We have been designed to communicate with him.

That was before the Fall. All human babies afterwards are born with Adam and Eve's sin, which can only be erased with baptism. Sprinkling some water on an infant does not constitute baptism; please allow me to quote from our Statement of Faith:

True Christian™ Baptism is the total, complete, and prolonged immersion of a believer, fully clothed in a Christian manner*, in water. It is an act of utter obedience publicly displaying and announcing the believer’s faith in a Crucified, Buried, and Risen Saviour, the believer’s death to sin, the burial/drowning of the old sinful, vile and worthless life, and the Resurrection to walk the walk of newness of life in Christ Jesus and compelling him to take all opportunities to speak of the experience to others in word, deed wherever and whenever the Spirit takes him and in particular to those of no or weaker Faiths.

Also an unborn baby murdered by an abortion would definitely go to heaven.

Nope, because an unborn baby has not repented for its sins, has not accepted Jesus, and has not been baptized, which means it is a godless heathen.

So the same logic applies to infants that die that have been born. They also go to heaven.

The same logic does apply, and yes, these infants are also going to Hell.

Also Matthew 18:1-3 says

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus saying, sho is the greatest in heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him and set him in the midst of them and said,
Verily I say unto you Except you be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

If babies dont go to heaven then why would Jesus say that to his disciples? You dkbt honestly believe he lied fo them do you?!

I have highlighted the most relevant bit. Converting is the first condition to be saved. Behaving like a child is a second condition, but it won't work without the first one.

I hope my replies were helpful. Next time, before you copy and paste a chunk of text, read it first to make sure that it makes sense. As I demonstrated, the opinion of the author of this text is not Biblically correct.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

That was before the Fall. All human babies afterwards are born with Adam and Eve's sin, which can only be erased with baptism. Sprinkling some water on an infant does not constitute baptism; please allow me to quote from our Statement of Faith:



Nope, because an unborn baby has not repented for its sins, has not accepted Jesus, and has not been baptized, which means it is a godless heathen.

The same logic does apply, and yes, these infants are also going to Hell.

I have highlighted the most relevant bit. Converting is the first condition to be saved. Behaving like a child is a second condition, but it won't work without the first one.

I hope my replies were helpful. Next time, before you copy and paste a chunk of text, read it first to make sure that it makes sense. As I demonstrated, the opinion of the author of this text is not Biblically correct.

No your defending a calvanist lie. Calvanism is a false religion. Babies go to heaven

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

No your defending a calvanist lie. Calvanism is a false religion. Babies go to heaven

You can call it whatever you like, but I'm defending what the Bible says. Period.