[Meek and Humble]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

Sir/Ma'am, are you familiar with anyone named John the Baptist?

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

God's will manifested on earth and here we are.



We're Christians because Christ founded us.



The Desert. But more imporatantly, in our hearts.



To save our souls from the Hell Fire He Himself created.

So... This website has always been here? The Landover Baptist Church has always existed? You are making this a really difficult question... Maybe I'll rephrase...again...

You realize you make them same claim as every other Christian church out there right? There is no religion following Christ that does not claim to follow the Bible. So where are you from? Seriously, what human being sat down and founded your church? Where?

We aren't some false religion that was made up at some random junction in history. Our faith is the first and only faith. There was nothing before the Word.

Untrue. The word as the world knows it was not established until around 400 AD. And your King James Bible was not around until after the protestant reform around 1500 AD.

So why is this such a big deal? Why can't you tell me your history?

[Ugly_Kid_Joe]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

Is it just me, or is the username of this papist contradicting itself?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

And also heathen basher, I never claimed this to be my own writing.

You never claimed it not to be your writing. In any academic environment, you would have been failed. In a professional environment you would have been fired/sued. You continued the post as if you wrote it. There was no quotation marks, no indication that you didn't write that. You want us to believe you wrote it even when you didn't. You are a liar and a thief. Great morals your church has taught you.

However, you my friend, have somehow dodged the point here. Does it matter if these are my words or not? The point is that it is not a seance. And you didn't dispute that at all. Instead, you attack the techinicallities of my arguement instead of the arguement itself! And you know what??

Now let me show you how you would do that properly.

Here's an interesting article I found at: http://www.carm.org/religious-moveme...aints-biblical

Is praying to the saints biblical?

One of the erroneous teachings of the Roman Catholic Church is the doctrine of praying to the saints. Catholicism teaches that it is okay to offer prayers not only to God but also to creatures such as Mary, Joseph, and others who have entered heaven. Is it biblical to pray to anyone other than God? We firmly hold that it is not biblical and that to pray to anyone other than God is idolatrous. Nevertheless, Roman Catholics will try and find whatever they can in Scripture to demonstrate that praying to the saints is permitted. One of the major sections of Scripture used to support this is found in Rev. 5:8-14

"And when He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art Thou to take the book, and to break its seals; for Thou wast slain, and didst purchase for God with Thy blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 "And Thou hast made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." 11 And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." 13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." 14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped," (Rev. 5:8-14)

Let's look at this section of scripture from the Roman Catholic perspective and then analyze their position.
Verse 8 says speaks of the "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." Verses 9-10 speak of a new song sung in heaven. Verse 11 speaks of those around the throne of God and verse 12 says that they were saying "Worthy is the Lamb..." Verse 13 mentions every created thing in heaven and earth saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
We have no problem with those in heaven hearing what is said on earth. Many Christians deny that this is possible, but it seems to be clearly taught here. Does this justify the Roman Catholic teaching of praying to those who are in heaven? Not at all. Let's take a look at the verses.
First, regarding verse 8, can the prayers be authored by those who are already in heaven? It doesn't say. There are different interpretations on exactly who the saints are because their identity can't be precisely demonstrated; after all, Revelation is a highly symbolic book. Therefore, if it cannot be demonstrated conclusively who they are, then it cannot be demonstrated conclusively whose prayers they are, either. Nevertheless, verse 9 says "they sang a new song." Who is the "they"? It would have to be either the the four living creatures and/or the 24 elders since "prayers of the saints" don't sing, "creatures" and "elders" do the singing.
In verse 11-12 the angels, the creatures, and the elders who were all around the throne (which means they are in heaven) were praising God directly. In verse 13 it says every created thing in heaven and earth was praising God, then the elders fell down and worshiped, v. 14.
Second, just because those in heaven can hear the prayers of those on Earth does not mean that is okay to pray to saints. If they can hear the prayers of people it is because God grants that to them. Think about it. Can those in heaven hear the prayers uttered without speech? Can they read minds? It is only God who knows all things and only God can grant anyone to hear or know what the prayers are of those who pray in silence. Let's not give the saints superhuman powers similar to omniscience. Nevertheless, all the text is saying is that they can hear the praise and worship of God. It does not say that they are to receive prayers, nor does it imply praying to them is permitted. All it says is that they can hear the prayers and praise. There is nothing suggesting that those on Earth are requesting the prayers or intercession of those in heaven. Nothing like this is in the text nor is there even a hint of it.
Third, even if the case can be made that prayers are authored in heaven, and that those prayers are mingled with the prayers of those from Earth, it still does not justify those on Earth praying to those in heaven. At best, all that we can say is that the prayers of those in heaven and the prayers of those on Earth are mingled. To say any more than that is to read into the Scripture what is not there.
Fourth, can the saints in heaven hear every prayer of every creature all the time? The Roman Catholic Church prefers to say that it's possible; otherwise, it would not be possible to pray to Mary legitimately. The standard Protestant objection is that praying to the saints implies a type of omniscience on the hearers' part. The Roman Catholic Church replies that we do not know what the state is of those in heaven and that we should not therefore conclude that they cannot hear all of our prayers. But this is an argument from silence. In other words, we don't know what it is like so we conclude it's possible. It is an argument based on what we do not know, not what we do know. This is a very, very weak way of trying to present a position. Ultimately, it is an admission by the Roman Catholic Church that the Scriptures do not teach in any direct way their dogma of praying to the saints. The Roman Catholic Church must infer this from scripture and read it into the text in order to support its error.
To Whom should we pray?

There is no biblical teaching at all that states we are to pray to those who once were alive on earth and are now in heaven. Revelation, the same book used by them to justify their position says the following:

"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy," (Rev. 19:10).

John wants to bow the knee and worship the angel. But the angel tells him not to do that because he is a fellow creature. If the angel says that he is a fellow creature like John, and that John is not to bow to him, then neither should anyone else bow to an angel, or any creature so as to offer worship. Worship includes prayer. Therefore, no one should pray to any created thing.
Biblically, prayer is always offered to God, and is a form of worship. All religions view prayer as an act of worship to their god(s) since they contain petitions, confession of sin, requests of intercession, etc., things which are received and answered by God, not by created things. Also, prayer is not the same thing as talking to someone face-to-face. Prayer is a humble petition to the Lord and not to a friend who's in the same room with you or on the other end of the phone -- or in heaven. Prayer is offered to God, never to any created thing. To do so is to offer worship that should only be directed to God, which is idolatry. Prayer should be offered only to God, and the Roman Catholic Church needs to repent of its false and idolatrous practice of praying to the saints.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

If I lie it is because of ignorance. Feel free to enlighten me

However, you are running out of answers aren't you? For consistently the only feedback I'm getting from you all has nothing to do with scripture, which is what you guys are supposed to be all about right?

Pearls before swine, papist.

Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

NOTE: THIS YOUNG MAN HAS SPENT HIS YOUTH BEING BUGGERED BY PAPIST PRIESTS. HIS MENTAL STATE IS THEREFORE QUESTIONABLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ HIS DISTURBING POSTS.

Papists are born liars and thieves, that's why.

If I lie it is because of ignorance. Feel free to enlighten me

However, you are running out of answers aren't you? For consistently the only feedback I'm getting from you all has nothing to do with scripture, which is what you guys are supposed to be all about right?

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

NOTE: THIS YOUNG MAN HAS SPENT HIS YOUTH BEING BUGGERED BY PAPIST PRIESTS. HIS MENTAL STATE IS THEREFORE QUESTIONABLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ HIS DISTURBING POSTS.

Hey heathen, may I ask why you stole your response from here: http://www.catholic.com/library/Pray...the_Saints.asp without citing or giving credit to the original author, trying to pass it off as your own work? That's called plagiarism you know. God does not condone stealing, you thief.

Lol. Well wouldn't I have been infracted for linking to a heathen website? But since you graciously applied the link for me I will highly recommend all of you to venture there! And while you're at it, check out the other websites I use, particullarly my favorite:


[satanic catlicker link deleted]

Oh, and if you infract me for that one, infract Heathen Basher too

And also heathen basher, I never claimed this to be my own writing.

However, you my friend, have somehow dodged the point here. Does it matter if these are my words or not? The point is that it is not a seance. And you didn't dispute that at all. Instead, you attack the techinicallities of my arguement instead of the arguement itself! And you know what??

ITS OK.

Because you are GOING to run out of answers friend. You see it already happening here.

[James Peter]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

I pray brother, let Christ work through you here. Do not let Satan touch you now, do not let them drag you down their path. For if you fall, as these have here, you may never be able to pull yourself out. Maintain your composure as a representative of Christ's Church, stand tall and do not let them touch you. Let them strike at your heel, and answer with love brother. Help me save them.

And I say, let them come. Send me your worst. Bring questions on all fronts. For the questions will end long before the answers do. I will pray fervently that one, just one single soul might be brought home to Christ's Church thought our efforts here.

Don't worry, I am strong in my beliefs! I have the Blessed Mother fighting on my side The other day I was reading Dante's Divine Comedy, and I was having fun picturing these Landover people stuck in the hell described there Yeah, it would be nice if some of them converted, but honestly, I just want them to shut up. Too bad we aren't allowed to burn heretics anymore like we did in the good old days before this stupid separation of church and state.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

I was happy. I thought you were unlike your bretheren here. Forgive me for the mistake.

You should worry about getting forgiveness from Jesus for being an idolater.

Jesus loved Mary. Why don't you?

Don't be ridiculous, Jesus HATED Mary: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0504/mothersday.html

And Catholics make Mary cry: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

Hey heathen, may I ask why you stole your response from here: http://www.catholic.com/library/Pray...the_Saints.asp without citing or giving credit to the original author, trying to pass it off as your own work? That's called plagiarism you know. God does not condone stealing, you thief.

Papists are born liars and thieves, that's why.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

Sigh.

Sometimes Fundamentalists object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy 18:10–11. In fact, he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. "There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.

And yes. I know you think Catholicism to be a cult of some sort.
But I will persevere.

Hey heathen, may I ask why you stole your response from here: http://www.catholic.com/library/Pray...the_Saints.asp without citing or giving credit to the original author, trying to pass it off as your own work? That's called plagiarism you know. God does not condone stealing, you thief.

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

I find myself neither frightened or ashamed of my Church. Why do you feel this way?

Most people who have been molested during their early years develope personality disorders. You seem to be in the same boat as those girls who are married off to 50 year old pedophiles and grow thinking they are normal and that thw way they feel inside is typical. You poor thing. You're too messed up in the head to even recognize how truly miserable you really are.

I think you know what I mean and you're being intentially difficult.
However, for the moment I will pretend you are as thoughtless as you claim and restate the question.

No need to insult me becuase of your failure to convey your thoughts in writting.

Where did you come from?

God's will manifested on earth and here we are.

Who founded you?

We're Christians because Christ founded us.

Where?

The Desert. But more imporatantly, in our hearts.

Why?

To save our souls from the Hell Fire He Himself created.

From what religion did you branch from?

We aren't some false religion that was made up at some random junction in history. Our faith is the first and only faith. There was nothing before the Word.

Or... do you even know? Are you dodging the question because you really don't have a history?

This from a guy whose religion is a hodge podge of various roman pagan sects. Speak plainly. Don't ask me a question and then demand an answer that is outside the scope of the question. Tell me exactly what it is you want to know. I don't know what you're trying to pull here, but my patience is running thin. We take Jesus seriously here.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

NOTE: THIS YOUNG MAN HAS SPENT HIS YOUTH BEING BUGGERED BY PAPIST PRIESTS. HIS MENTAL STATE IS THEREFORE QUESTIONABLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ HIS DISTURBING POSTS.

What are you smirking at, Papist devil?

I was happy. I thought you were unlike your bretheren here. Forgive me for the mistake.

Who be you to say anything, anyways?
We got our-selves a Catlick right here on da block. Miz Lydia Wilcox had her-self one of those "Mary on a Half Shell" statues on her lawn. Well, Beezer Wilcox shot the head of da Mary off wif his air gun and the Miz Lydia threw ole Mary out in da garbage. Cleevon took da headless Mary and put it under the palm tree by the pool and we call her "Our Lady of Little Thought" which is a fittin tribute to the Catlick Virgin .

Jesus loved Mary. Why don't you?

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

NOTE: THIS YOUNG MAN HAS SPENT HIS YOUTH BEING BUGGERED BY PAPIST PRIESTS. HIS MENTAL STATE IS THEREFORE QUESTIONABLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ HIS DISTURBING POSTS.

You good for nothing Protestants just leave Catholic-Christian alone! He's following the commands of God's representative on earth, Pope Benedict XVI. What do you mormons know about God? The Catholic Church is the only way to God! Unless you become a baptized member of the Church, attend mass every week, take communion and confess all your mortal sins to a priest, you'll never be said. Jesus says that quite clearly in the Bible, but you ignore Him. You all are so evil! You are going to hell along with the other 5 billion people in this world who aren't Catholic - ALL Protestant false Christians, those muslim terrorists, Hindu freaks, Buddhist idiots, greedy Jews, polygamous mormons, homosexual atheists - ALL HEADED FOR HELL! Turn to the true Church™! Mary, the Blessed Ever-Virgin Mother of God may have mercy on your soul!

I pray brother, let Christ work through you here. Do not let Satan touch you now, do not let them drag you down their path. For if you fall, as these have here, you may never be able to pull yourself out. Maintain your composure as a representative of Christ's Church, stand tall and do not let them touch you. Let them strike at your heel, and answer with love brother. Help me save them.

And I say, let them come. Send me your worst. Bring questions on all fronts. For the questions will end long before the answers do. I will pray fervently that one, just one single soul might be brought home to Christ's Church thought our efforts here.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Catholic. Born, raised and proud

NOTE: THIS YOUNG MAN HAS SPENT HIS YOUTH BEING BUGGERED BY PAPIST PRIESTS. HIS MENTAL STATE IS THEREFORE QUESTIONABLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ HIS DISTURBING POSTS.

Asking favours of dead people is often referred to as "having a séance", and is a sin. When you pray to dead people, it is demons who answer. You might as well crack out a ouija board -- you are doomed anyway, unless you repent of your needy necrophiliac nagging and mother fixation.

Sigh.

Sometimes Fundamentalists object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy 18:10–11. In fact, he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. "There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.

And yes. I know you think Catholicism to be a cult of some sort.
But I will persevere.