[Meek and Humble]

Re: Jesus forgave

Nice try, liar.

[QUOTE=Ilikeobama;495521]

I will get back to the verses you gave me from Numeri and Joshua. I can see a few flaws in the translation, but it´ll take me some time to describe it of course.

Yes, of course. It will take you plenty of time to try to scramble for an excuse as you work around the fact you don't actually know Hebrew.

First I´ll get back to this part of Romans you gave me.

Oh, so you DO know Greek, then?

Romans 9:18 - In this translation it looks like God just picks people at random, because God´s will is translated as that what he wants, but that is not correct. You see, in the original greek version, that what you translated as His will is actually his eternal, sovereign, never changing wisdom and justice wich is something completely different than what we humans call our will. We sometimes want a coffee and sometimes we want tea, but God doesn´t work that way. The Greek version makes this really clear, the English versions don´t.

Well, jeez, why is it none of the English Bible translators from all of history haven't been as well-educated as you, friend? Seems anyone with a passing knowledge of Greek that they found online (like you) can correctly interpret scripture, whereas scholars like John Calvin (who knew Greek quite well, and certainly wasn't reading an English translation, especially since he isn't English) give the interpretation of this passage that I do.

The Greek word for "will" in that passage is thelō - it means

1) to will, have in mind, intend
a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b) to desire, to wish
c) to love
1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
d) to take delight in, have pleasure


It is used 210 in the Bible, and in all its contexts it is shown to mean: will/would 159, will/would have 16, desire 13, desirous 3, list 3, to will 2, misc 4



It most certainly does not refer to a God's divine wisdom or anything like you suggest, as the word is used in the New Testament to refer to human decisions, and the context does not support your made-up interpretation - in Matthew 1:19, Matthew 2:28, Mark 6:19, Luke 1:62, John 5:6, Acts 7:28, Romans 1:13, 1 Corinthians 4:21, 2 Corinthians 1:8, Galatians 1:7, Colossians 2:1, 1 Thessalonians 2:18, 2 Thessalonians 3:10, 1 Timothy 1:7, Philemon 1:14, Hebrews 10:5, James 2:20, 1 Peter 3:10, 2 Peter 3:5, 3 John 1:13, Revelation 11:5 - and this is just a handful from hundreds.


There is a word that would more closely match your meaning, thelēma, used in other parts of the New Testament, but NOT used here.

So what this part says would in modern English is be something like:
He who chooses to live without taking notice of the eternal, sovereign wisdom and justice of God, will always miss this in life with a hardened, tougher life as a result.

Funny, because the text is clearly talking about God performing the action, not a man. The word "will" is a verb, not an abstract noun. Also, your made-up translation seems to completely ignore the first half of that verse. Why is that?

But let's assume your made-up translation was true. What about 9:17? That is quoting the Old Testament of God hardening Pharaoh's heart.

What about 9:15? It says God told Moses some people will get mercy, others not.

What about verse 14? Why would Paul rhetorically ask if people would find fault with God unless he was stating something controversial?

What about verse 13, another quote from the Old Testament. It says God hates Esau.

What about verse 11? It says God decides this before the children are born and before they have done anything at all, either good or evil.

What about verse 19? What is it talking about resisting God's will?

What about verse 20, where it says God forms people certain ways and we cannot answer back to him about it?

Why does verse 21 say God makes some people for honour and some to dishonor? If this was really about human choice - why is the metaphor of a potter being used? Pots don't decide to become badly formed.

Why does verse 22 say these people were created in order to be destroyed?

Also, please, show me some references that back up your made-up translation. I'm really quite interested.

Please send me the parts that make you think God ever created evil on purpose. I´m curious what has lead to this misunderstanding.

2 Kings 6:33 Behold, this evil is of the Lord.
Isaiah 45:7 I ... create evil.
Amos 3:6 Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

[Aristotle]

Re: Jesus forgave

I don´t know who translated this for you, but it was very poorly done. The actual bible wasn´t written in English, but in Hebrew you know. As a Hebrew student with Israeli forefathers I know that the original Hebrew version says something completely different.

I believe the New Testament was written in Greek and then perfected in the KJV by being translated into English. That is why America is God's chosen nation.

[Ilikeobama]

Re: Jesus forgave

Oh my God!

I´ve taken a look around the site and I have to say: nice job guys!
I actually thought you were real radical Christians.
I really tried to bring some sense into you, even stating that I was a Christian myself to make you trust me.
I do hope no one really gets strange ideas by reading all this.
Maybe it would be better to give the people some clues on the forums that it is all just true religion. Some people get influenced easily you know.

[GOD=life]

Re: Jesus forgave

I´ve taken a look around the site and I have to say: nice job guys!

Thank you.

I actually thought you were real radical Christians.

Exactly! We are True Christians, not radical Christians. That's a BIG difference.

I really tried to bring some sense into you, even stating that I was a Christian myself to make you trust me.

That doesn't sound very honest on your part, friend. You should never use your religious affiliation as a "badge". That makes a mockery out of Christianity.

I do hope no one really gets strange ideas by reading all this.

All they need to do is open the KJV 1611 Bible and read it entirely. That's all the idea they need. Not some cherry-picked verses. ALL OF IT

Maybe it would be better to give the people some clues on the forums that it is all just true religion.

We do that a lot, but it doesn't work. They keep saying things like "PROVE that God exists!!!" and "I hope you all ROT IN HELL!!!"

People have to want to see the Light for themselves....... we can only show them where the switch is.

[GOD=life]

Re: Jesus forgave

Praise you!

No friend, praise GOD!

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Jesus forgave

What about genuine an hoax ?

I have no idea what you are blabbering on about - are you just trying to hide the fact that above you just pretended to know Ancient Greek and made up a ridiculous "Translation" to make the Bible say something it doesn't?

[repented harlot70]

Re: Jesus forgave

Titus 3

1Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


That's what the blessed KJV says about it. You are a heretick. You've been admonished more than once. And I am not saying this. The Bible says it. If you still have a problem with this, take it up with the Good Lord.

[Ilikeobama]

Re: Jesus forgave

I have no idea what you are blabbering on about - are you just trying to hide the fact that above you just pretended to know Ancient Greek and made up a ridiculous "Translation" to make the Bible say something it doesn't?

Yes I was, should I prepare for Hellfire now? I have Bepanthem Cream.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Jesus forgave

Yes I was, should I prepare for Hellfire now? I have Bepanthem Cream.

What is your beef with us? How are we Scripturally incorrect? Have we not shown you?

Please come up with some sort of something. It can be anything about the Bible.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Jesus forgave

Yes I was, should I prepare for Hellfire now?

Why not prepare for Heaven instead? It's much more fun!

Why it is very important to avoid hell (you are heading straight for it at the moment): Psalm 9:17 "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." Mark 9:43 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched"

[Purple_Shrimp]

Re: Jesus forgave

Which is exactly why you have to use the only correct version of the Holy Bible. Seven easy ways to tell the True Bible from the false ones.

so why would God allow there to be incorrect versions of the Bible?

[Talitha]

Re: Jesus forgave

so why would God allow there to be incorrect versions of the Bible?

Evil forces are at work.
Probably some kind of Demon pretending to be a Christian.

Now, who are you and what do you want here?
You haven't even been to the Introduction Thread yet.
Most rude.

[Purple_Shrimp]

Re: Jesus forgave

Evil forces are at work.
Probably some kind of Demon pretending to be a Christian.

Isn't God meant to be omnipotent? I would have thought that fixing a corruption of His word would be high on His to-do list, since it'd lead His believers astray. if He only got round to doing it in 1611, surely it can't have been that important.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Jesus forgave

God gave us free will. Same reason he lets goths and gays roam the planet. You can write any book you want. But you have to be aware there are consequences for blaspheming God.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Jesus forgave

Isn't God meant to be omnipotent? I would have thought that fixing a corruption of His word would be high on His to-do list, since it'd lead His believers astray. if He only got round to doing it in 1611, surely it can't have been that important.

You haven't read the Bible, have you? It clearly says that God purposefully lies to certain people so that they will not know the truth and He can send them to hell.

1 Kings 22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jeremiah 4:10 Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Rom.9:11-22 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation." -- Jude 4

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.