[Didymus Much]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

...Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg."...

Seeing Jedediah use that in his post, but as e.g., I checked Wiki (which I really should do before opening my mouth), and he is correct, it should be e.g. (commonly used with a comma after, but that's more a style thing than a requirement).

I'd offer to give myself ten lashes with a wet noodle, but that would invite infractions for promotion of self-mortification and Pastafarianism, so I'll just shut up for now.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

This is an incorrect statement.

The Second Vatican Council (Lumen gentium ## 61-62), said:

... in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace.

This motherhood of Mary in the economy of grace lasts without interruption, from the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation, and which she unhesitatingly bore with under the cross, even to the perpetual consummation of all the elect. For after being assumed into heaven, she has not put aside this saving function, but by her manifold intercession, she continues to win the gifts of eternal salvation for us. By her motherly love, she takes care of the brothers of her Son who are still in pilgrimage and in dangers and difficulties, until they be led through to the happy fatherland. For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer...."

Let's take a closer look at this. By "economy of grace," the catholic church refers to the idea that grace can be gained and lost. This explains why the sacraments are of vital importance to the Romanists. If one sins in a grave way, so as to reject the entirety of God's "salvific grace" (a catholic invention) from their soul, that person will surely spend eternity in a spiritual [second] death. This catholics refer to as "mortal sin." If one sins in such a way as to not reject the entirety of God's salvific grace, the consequences are understood to place the repentant person in a state of expurgation until the soul is free from all sin and there remains only love for God. It is from this concept, found nowhere in the Holy Bible, the catholics get the word "purgatory." Rejection of the catholic notion of this "economy of grace" and subsequent necessity of the sacraments (and therefore presence of the ambassadors of the Holy Roman Empire in all towns and cities throughout Europe at the time) is one of the offenses for which Martin Luther was excommunicated.

This "economy of grace" includes the idea that the dead in Heaven, those whose souls are perfectly cleansed of all sin, can intercede on behalf of sinners here on earth. Mary holds a unique position in that she was born without sin, according to the Roman cult (eventually coining the term "Immaculate Conception" to make it sound official). Being born without sin means she never would have had a soul tainted with sin. Ever. In other words, the "amount" of grace, if you will, is in all practical effects, equal to that of Jesus. For this reason the Roman cult calls her by such titles as Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. They may say "no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer," but if you think about this for any length of time, you'll find that the lip service given is not born out in their theology. In reality, catholic theology makes no distinction between the practical effect of Mary's grace and the practical effect of Christ's grace. In other words, they say she is not equal but she is, in fact, no different practically speaking. She is not sub-par with Christ, she is equal to Him, which makes her a goddess in that cult, and why the Good LORD opened mine own eyes and delivered me from the coal chute straight to Hell my own parents had unwittingly placed me in at my birth.

[Jedediah]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

I know she is dead, but she is in Heaven, no? Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

If you had bothered to actually read the Holy Bible (KJV 1611), you would know that the dead have not physical or mental activity (see, for example, Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 and Psalm 146:4). Every person who dies, whether righteous or unsaved, sleeps in the ground until the Resurrection (e.g., Daniel 12:2, John 3:13, Acts 2:29).

God promises to resurrect all those who have died, sinner and True Christian™ alike, and judge each and every one according to his or her works.

Revelation 20:11-12
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

God's Word says nothing about floating up to Heaven immediately after death, where you will talk to Saint Peter at the pearly gates and be welcomed by previously deceased friends and family. Everyone will be judged at once.

Praying to the dead is an exercise in futility. Jesus tells us that rather than praise His mother, we should hearken to His Word and obey His commandments.

Luke 11:27-28
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What you are demonstrating with your ignorance of that which you profess to believe is that you cannot be a True Christian™ if you don't read the Bible.

My family and I will pray for you, that you may begin to take seriously that which forms the basis for those things you profess belief in, yet of which you demonstrate ignorance.

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

The WHAT???!



Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg." not "ex" (which means "used to be" [as in ex-gay] or "from" [as in ex libris, from the library of]).

1st Yes, I know, odd.
2nd Thank you. I didn't know that.

[Didymus Much]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

...the word 'hate' from the original Arabic...

The WHAT???!

...(ex Nebuchadnezzar, Osama)...

Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg." not "ex" (which means "used to be" [as in ex-gay] or "from" [as in ex libris, from the library of]).

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

That's not what The Bible teaches me. Where are you getting your information about Heaven?

From the teaching Magisterium of the Rock upon which the Church is built, as established by Christ on earth.

Matthew 16:17-19 "And Jesus answered him "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."

In these two passages, Christ not only establishes the Church on earth, but then immediately elects one man to then be it's head. And that man, and those men with him, then continued his teachings, and their followers, those followers of Christ, those first Christians, became the Catholic Church.

~DD

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

That's not what The Bible teaches me. Where are you getting your information about Heaven?

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Mary is dead. She can't intervene for anyone.

I know she is dead, but she is in Heaven, no? Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

I am getting confused - how could Nero be mentioned in the Old Testament? Where are the Romans in the Old Testament?

I was not saying that Nero was in the old Testament. I was simply stating that people like him existed and continue to exist. (ex Nebuchadnezzar, Osama) I merely meant that the persecution that they were undergoing is something that Jesus was talking about.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

For Pastor Isaac Peters,

First, isn't Jesus the fulfillment, the messiah, the one we've been waiting for? The one who the Jews were praying to come in power and raise them on high for the glory of God? He did, as you said, not come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to be that which fulfills the prophets and the laws and the scriptures, that all might know God in his majesty and might.

In the Psalms, the word 'hate' from the original Arabic equivocally means 'Anger', 'Wrath', and 'Fury'. That sentence can also read as "Those workers of iniquity have thine wrath." By definition, as I've stated, Hate is a selfish emotion, and self-centeredness is evil. And God, as a perfect being of all good and love, cannot have evil in him, because he is all Good. Were he hateful, as you suggest, he wouldn't be God. Instead, he would simply be a powerful being that is prone to evil as we are. Right? If God wasn't good, he wouldn't be perfect?

And as for Mary Etheldreda

As of yet, as I have read the previous sentiments on this board towards all those who have differing opinions, I am going to refrain from introducing myself beyond my own opinions. I may do so at a later date, but for now, I will, as I stated, refrain.


On another topic, I read that you claim Catholics worship Mary, the mother of God. Where do you draw evidence for this claim? Is it from the prayer that Catholics use? The Hail Mary?

"Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death,
Amen."

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

Mary is dead. She can't intervene for anyone.

Old Testament..was written and intended for a time of life for people who lived under constant threat of harm by those peoples and kingdoms that thought them hazardous, such as the Romans (ex Nero)

I am getting confused - how could Nero be mentioned in the Old Testament? Where are the Romans in the Old Testament?

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

For Pastor Isaac Peters,

First, isn't Jesus the fulfillment, the messiah, the one we've been waiting for? The one who the Jews were praying to come in power and raise them on high for the glory of God? He did, as you said, not come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to be that which fulfills the prophets and the laws and the scriptures, that all might know God in his majesty and might.

In the Psalms, the word 'hate' from the original Arabic equivocally means 'Anger', 'Wrath', and 'Fury'. That sentence can also read as "Those workers of iniquity have thine wrath." By definition, as I've stated, Hate is a selfish emotion, and self-centeredness is evil. And God, as a perfect being of all good and love, cannot have evil in him, because he is all Good. Were he hateful, as you suggest, he wouldn't be God. Instead, he would simply be a powerful being that is prone to evil as we are. Right? If God wasn't good, he wouldn't be perfect?

And as for Mary Etheldreda

As of yet, as I have read the previous sentiments on this board towards all those who have differing opinions, I am going to refrain from introducing myself beyond my own opinions. I may do so at a later date, but for now, I will, as I stated, refrain.


On another topic, I read that you claim Catholics worship Mary, the mother of God. Where do you draw evidence for this claim? Is it from the prayer that Catholics use? The Hail Mary?

"Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death,
Amen."

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

If I may interject, I have a couple questions for you.

1. You quote plenty of Old Testament verses which, while a great source for insight in how to live, was written and intended for a time of life for people who lived under constant threat of harm by those peoples and kingdoms that thought them hazardous, such as the Romans (ex Nero), and then you pertain to hold these things dear as true in this day and age. However, I ask why you do so? When Jesus was in his public life of teaching, He was continually questioned by the Pharisees in the temples and public places about his actions versus the preachings and teachings of 'their fathers' (ex Abraham, Solomon) To which of each He responded with either a straight up answer, or a parable, which seemed to be a modern response to each question. (ex parable of the two men confessing their sins to God, one who did so out loud and proud, and the other who did so in the corner quietly). Is that not true? For did God not make a new covenant, as Jesus said during the last supper, with us to override the old covenant of Abraham. My question then is this: Should we hold the teachings of Jesus in the new testament over the rules and regulations of the old? And if so, then why do you believe that?

Here's what Jesus said about the Old Testament:

Matt. 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed?

2. You continually say that God hates those listed in Leviticus (I unfortunately cannot call to mind those particular ones, but listed were whore-mongers, those who commit bestiality, and those who lie and cheat), and I understand, personally, where that comes from, but my question to you is this: if God does hate people, then why is it never listed in the bible of God's hate, but only his anger and wrath? Isn't hate a selfish emotion, while anger and wrath righteous, derived a love of Good and a sadness from disobeying God?

Yours in Christ,
~DD

Where did you get the idea that the Bible never mentions God's hate?

Psalm 5:4-5: For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

That's a clear statement in the Bible that God hates all workers of iniquity.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Hi! You sound like an interesting fellow. Please introduce yourself HERE so we can get to know you. Tell us what church you go to, which Bible Verse sets your soul on fire for the LORD the most, and how you came to know Him so intimately.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

New Testament. Nice try.

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

If I may interject, I have a couple questions for you.

1. You quote plenty of Old Testament verses which, while a great source for insight in how to live, was written and intended for a time of life for people who lived under constant threat of harm by those peoples and kingdoms that thought them hazardous, such as the Romans (ex Nero), and then you pertain to hold these things dear as true in this day and age. However, I ask why you do so? When Jesus was in his public life of teaching, He was continually questioned by the Pharisees in the temples and public places about his actions versus the preachings and teachings of 'their fathers' (ex Abraham, Solomon) To which of each He responded with either a straight up answer, or a parable, which seemed to be a modern response to each question. (ex parable of the two men confessing their sins to God, one who did so out loud and proud, and the other who did so in the corner quietly). Is that not true? For did God not make a new covenant, as Jesus said during the last supper, with us to override the old covenant of Abraham. My question then is this: Should we hold the teachings of Jesus in the new testament over the rules and regulations of the old? And if so, then why do you believe that?

2. You continually say that God hates those listed in Leviticus (I unfortunately cannot call to mind those particular ones, but listed were whore-mongers, those who commit bestiality, and those who lie and cheat), and I understand, personally, where that comes from, but my question to you is this: if God does hate people, then why is it never listed in the bible of God's hate, but only his anger and wrath? Isn't hate a selfish emotion, while anger and wrath righteous, derived a love of Good and a sadness from disobeying God?

Yours in Christ,
~DD

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Why don't you guys just kill off anyone that's not up to date with your 'beliefs'? I mean, isn't the word of the lord much more important than the laws of this country? I find that a tad bit contradicting.

We do follow the LORD's commands for us, including the one to be obedient unto earthly government. (Proverbs 8:15; Romans 13:1-2; 1 Timothy 2:2; etc).

It would be great if you guys practiced what you preached and set off to kill, kill and kill those not in your favor. That way we'd have many of you so called "True" Christians in prison getting butt-piffleed at everyone's leisure (Though I would think Professor Bessemer would enjoy it very much).

Professor Bessemer is a True Christian™ and thus made new in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). If Christ was not a raging homosexual, you can be assured Brother Professor Bessemer is no longer a raging homosexual. He is a decent fellow and model citizen.

you all are going to hell anyways.

You're confused. Being "Saved" means "Saved from Hell."

The number of Christians is at a rise but so are the numbers of openly gay people,

Sadly, the number of Christians in our Godly nation is at an all-time low which also explains the all-time high number of homosexual/pedophiles.

I would sure like to see your faces when one of your own children comes out or leaves the household to later inform you of their homosexual acts.

This will never happen.

You would be surprised the amount of men, "True" Christian men, having homosexual relations behind their wive's and church's back.

True Christian™ men do not have homosex. True Christian™ men are freed from the bondage of homosex urges.

You are all too blinded to see your own flaws, and it may apply the same to those that don't agree with your beliefs. Whatever it may be, there will always be different opinions and beliefs. Keep up the terrorism in America, and be proud of it, Be Proud True American Christians! For God has a special place for you all in the end.

There is no flaw in the LORD, ergo, no flaw in following the LORD perfectly.