Intro

[wahran]

So, I've been kindly asked to introduce myself, and am more than willing to oblige.

I'm an atheist. This does not mean I'm mocking you, nor your God. This does not mean I hate you, nor your God. It merely means that I do not believe that the evidence anyone has shown to me points to the existence of such a god, of any kind.

I am not here to "flame" you, I am merely here to understand. I would like to understand why you believe what you believe. And one important thing you should note before answering my question is that I do not accept scripture as evidence. To me, it is a collection of stories, some may be true, yes, but others may not be. If you believe that the bible was written by God, I am more than willing to accept your views, but in my heart, I do not believe that to be true.

You may wish to refer to me as "unsaved trash", if you would be so kind (As I believe your bible says you should be, though if you can quote scripture that allows you to completely rip me, my opinions, and my feelings to shreds, quote it.) I would prefer you to drop the "trash" part... Feel free to call me unsaved, I am fine with you believing that. And also, when referring to me as an atheist, I would also prefer you to not add "scum" to that title, as many seem intent on doing in this forum.

Again, I am not here to mock you, I am here to understand.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

[Raimund]

Re: Intro

So, I've been kindly asked to introduce myself, and am more than willing to oblige.

I'm an atheist. This does not mean I'm mocking you, nor your God. This does not mean I hate you, nor your God. It merely means that I do not believe that the evidence anyone has shown to me points to the existence of such a god, of any kind.

I am not here to "flame" you, I am merely here to understand. I would like to understand why you believe what you believe. And one important thing you should note before answering my question is that I do not accept scripture as evidence. To me, it is a collection of stories, some may be true, yes, but others may not be. If you believe that the bible was written by God, I am more than willing to accept your views, but in my heart, I do not believe that to be true.

You may wish to refer to me as "unsaved trash", if you would be so kind (As I believe your bible says you should be, though if you can quote scripture that allows you to completely rip me, my opinions, and my feelings to shreds, quote it.) I would prefer you to drop the "trash" part... Feel free to call me unsaved, I am fine with you believing that. And also, when referring to me as an atheist, I would also prefer you to not add "scum" to that title, as many seem intent on doing in this forum.

Again, I am not here to mock you, I am here to understand.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

No scriptures, No insults, but enough proof I think.

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Re: Intro

If you are not here to seek Salvation, please respect that God tells us to seperate ourselves from the likes of you:

2 Corinthians 6:14-17
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

[wahran]

Re: Intro

Please respect that God tells us to seperate ourselves from the likes of you

As I have already said, I do not believe that scripture was written by God. I do respect that you believe you should separate yourself from me, but you have not answered my query:

Why do you believe that scripture was written by God, why do you believe what you believe?

I may be wrong, as I do not know the bible all that well, but I'm fairly certain there is a verse somewhere that even says that it is written by man only with the inspiration of God, or something along those lines. If you wish to take all scripture literally, as you appear to do so, should this not also be taken literally? That scripture was in fact not written by God as you believe?

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Re: Intro

As I have already said, I do not believe that scripture was written by God. I do respect that you believe you should separate yourself from me, but you have not answered my query:

Why do you believe that scripture was written by God, why do you believe what you believe?

I may be wrong, as I do not know the bible all that well, but I'm fairly certain there is a verse somewhere that even says that it is written by man only with the inspiration of God, or something along those lines. If you wish to take all scripture literally, as you appear to do so, should this not also be taken literally? That scripture was in fact not written by God as you believe?

All Scripture is to be taken litterally. God commands this:

Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

If I were to write something with a pencil would you then say that the pencil wrote it?

[wahran]

Re: Intro

All Scripture is to be taken litterally. God commands this:

Psalm 12:6-7

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

If I were to write something with a pencil would you then say that the pencil wrote it?

No, I would say that the pencil was used as an instrument to write it. It that pencil broke or malfunctioned in some way that altered the final message of what you were writing (for example, you couldn't finish your sentence) then it would be due to the pencil that there were inaccuracies. Same goes for man, there will always be human error, as we are not perfect (like your God) therefore messages may be written down slightly incorrectly, is this not true?

And another point, I do believe there are some verses that even yourselves do not follow literally, to the letter:

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

Many women have short hair nowadays, I've seen many women on this forum with short hair, thus this verse is not taken literally.


"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)


As far as I'm aware, you do not preach that pork is forbidden to eat, yet here it clearly states that "the swine (pigs) is unclean to you" ...Why must you pick and choose which verses to take literally when you already showed me that you must take every verse literally?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

Can I call you Al? Terrific!

Look Al, you have stated you do not believe in God, can you imagine how I'd feel if I were your father and you told me you did not believe in your grandfather? The man I look up to, respect and admire? Do you think I'd be proud and happy about it?
Being you refuse to accept Jesus as your personal savior, what is the point of me justifying my love for God to you? You have made your mind up to be a cruel and hating person, probably racist too.

By the way, your comment about God having written the Bible is insane. Of course He did not write the Bible. Had you actually read it before flying off the handle and hating what you do not know, you would realize that. Do you honestly think an deity as busy as Him, creating man, Earth the heavens and Hell has time to sit down with a Bic in His hand and write? God created life, men have free will, those that listened to God wrote stories of their lives and how God was there for them. All beautiful stories chock full of love, which sadly seems to be missing from your life. God reviewed the stores and put His stamp of approval on them to be in His Good Book®, the KJV.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

No, I would say that the pencil was used as an instrument to write it. It that pencil broke or malfunctioned in some way that altered the final message of what you were writing (for example, you couldn't finish your sentence) then it would be due to the pencil that there were inaccuracies. Same goes for man, there will always be human error, as we are not perfect (like your God) therefore messages may be written down slightly incorrectly, is this not true?

And another point, I do believe there are some verses that even yourselves do not follow literally, to the letter:

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

Many women have short hair nowadays, I've seen many women on this forum with short hair, thus this verse is not taken literally.


"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)


As far as I'm aware, you do not preach that pork is forbidden to eat, yet here it clearly states that "the swine (pigs) is unclean to you" ...Why must you pick and choose which verses to take literally when you already showed me that you must take every verse literally?

Al,
(1 Corinthians 11:13-15) means if a woman has long hair, she need not have additional covering, if it is short, then she must cover her head. Being you hate God, I am not in the least bit surprised you are incapable of understanding this.

I am really getting tired of your shenanigans.

[wahran]

Re: Intro

Can I call you Al? Terrific!

Not sure why you wanna call me that, but go ahead...

you have stated you do not believe in God, can you imagine how I'd feel if I were your father and you told me you did not believe in your grandfather? The man I look up to, respect and admire? Do you think I'd be proud and happy about it?

Of course not, because your grandfather is/was a physical being, and can be proven to exist, God on the other hand, cannot.

what is the point of me justifying my love for God to you? You have made your mind up to be a cruel and hating person, probably racist too.

I didn't ask you to justify your love, your belief is what I wanted you to justify. And I'm not cruel, hating or racist. Believe I am if that's what you want to believe, but by discriminating against me because of what I believe, you are no better than a racist, you are also being cruel and hating because you are talking down my beliefs. If we are allowed to have free will, I am allowed to choose what I believe and you must accept that.

By the way, your comment about God having written the Bible is insane. Of course He did not write the Bible. Had you actually read it before flying off the handle and hating what you do not know, you would realize that. Do you honestly think an deity as busy as Him, creating man, Earth the heavens and Hell has time to sit down with a Bic in His hand and write? God created life, men have free will, those that listened to God wrote stories of their lives and how God was there for them. All beautiful stories chock full of love, which sadly seems to be missing from your life. God reviewed the stores and put His stamp of approval on them to be in His Good Book®, the KJV.

Well, here I agree with you (mainly). At least someone on this forum is man enough to accept that no, God did not write the Bible. Many people here seem to think that, friend. Also, I did not fly off the handle, I merely made a statement. I don't hate, I just don't believe, there's a difference.

And no, I don't think that someone could do all that, which is exactly what I said, if you had read it.

And one last thing, I am not missing love in my life. I love everyone as an equal, unlike you seem to. You seem to me to be homophobic, sexist, racist, and a whole other lot of ists just because some words on a page can be interpreted as saying you should be... Perhaps I could interpret them a different way, who's to say that your interpretation is correct?

I'm not saying that you're wrong, you have a right to believe what you want to believe. I'm just saying that what you believe is not what I believe. But it's just that a belief you may think it's a knowing, but in reality, no one can know or say for sure who is right... We both are surrounded by people who love us and that we love in return, you may see my love for my friends and family as a different type of love to the love that you experience. But it's still love. Why can't people from different faiths and people who have different beliefs get along, and yes I am saying that many atheists and members of all religions are wrong in what they do because they say that people who believe different to them are wrong and are stupid. I'm not saying that.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, and that I don't hate people just because of their beliefs.

[WinnerNotSinner]

Re: Intro

Hi, you are about the millionth atheist that has come here, not really understanding Christianity or what this website is.

We are all here to further our knowledge of GOD's teachings presented in the KJV1611 to ensure our place next to GOD in Heaven later on - However we are NOT here to debate with the unsaved. There is a large sign at the top of your page, it says "Unsaved Unwelcome!", did you miss it?

No, I would say that the pencil was used as an instrument to write it. It that pencil broke or malfunctioned in some way that altered the final message of what you were writing (for example, you couldn't finish your sentence) then it would be due to the pencil that there were inaccuracies. Same goes for man, there will always be human error, as we are not perfect (like your God) therefore messages may be written down slightly incorrectly, is this not true?

This should answer your question, the Bible was written by Holy men who could not make mistakes, as they were guided by the perfect GOD, who is better than any man could ever be, his greatness knows no bounds (Psalm 16:2, Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18). It was NOT written by some illiterate moron arabs who liked to tell stories about swords coming out of peoples mouths.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And another point, I do believe there are some verses that even yourselves do not follow literally, to the letter:

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Many women have short hair nowadays, I've seen many women on this forum with short hair, thus this verse is not taken literally.

Listen here, punk. I doubt you have ever even been to a church, and you certainly haven't been into our one (we have very strict security).



I will tell you this for free though, if anyone steps out of line - if anyone, man or woman, makes a mistake that contradicts biblical scripture, then there are punishments. Brother James has already pointed out the absurdity of this argument.

Why do you hate Jesus?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

Look here Al, you know absolutely nothing of my grandfather yet you believe he existed. Interesting.

Yes, God gave you free will (thanks for at least admitting He gave you that) In your next breath, you talk of your beliefs but as an admitted atheist, you have none, you do not believe. Interesting paradox.

I see, I am a homophobic, racist, sexist person. And you know this how? Have we met? How you know me? Not a bit. What you are doing is lying and attacking good honest folk when you know your only reason to be here is to be a trouble maker. You do not see me going on your God hating sites and tying to create trouble, do you?

[wahran]

Re: Intro

It's not so much that I don't have beliefs, it's that I believe that there is no deity. Learn a little of my beliefs and my standing before attacking me.

Yes, I did see the sign saying "unsaved unwelcome" and of course I've been to a church. I was raised a Christian, though I'm not sure which denomination so you'll have to forgive me for that. Being raised in that faith is one of the main reasons I am now an atheist. I examined all the evidence on both sides, and I chose which I felt more compelling.

Contrary to what you may think, I believe that Jesus was a real person, I believe that he did great things, perhaps even miracles, but I do not believe that he was the son of God or part of the Holy Trinity.

I admit that my understanding of your faith is rudimentary, but I feel that your understanding of my beliefs is no more developed.

[Raimund]

Re: Intro

It's not so much that I don't have beliefs, it's that I believe that there is no deity. Learn a little of my beliefs and my standing before attacking me.

Yes, I did see the sign saying "unsaved unwelcome" and of course I've been to a church. I was raised a Christian, though I'm not sure which denomination so you'll have to forgive me for that. Being raised in that faith is one of the main reasons I am now an atheist. I examined all the evidence on both sides, and I chose which I felt more compelling.

Contrary to what you may think, I believe that Jesus was a real person, I believe that he did great things, perhaps even miracles, but I do not believe that he was the son of God or part of the Holy Trinity.

I admit that my understanding of your faith is rudimentary, but I feel that your understanding of my beliefs is no more developed.

If you were raised a Christian and went to church, then you should know what denomination it was, I was raised going to Norway Baptist Church, now what denomination is that??, ding, ding, ding, ding, times up, the correct answer is, "Baptist"..

[WinnerNotSinner]

Re: Intro

I was raised a Christian, though I'm not sure which denomination so you'll have to forgive me for that.

You really are a mess, aren't you! You used to be religious, but can't even remember what you believed in.

Contrary to what you may think, I believe that Jesus was a real person, I believe that he did great things, perhaps even miracles, but I do not believe that he was the son of God or part of the Holy Trinity..

So... you believe Jesus was real why? Because it was written in the Bible of course! You wouldn't know Jesus from Noah or Adam if it wasn't for the Bible.

Therefore you should believe Jesus IS GOD, since he said it:

John 10
30I and my Father are one.

Shows how much you know about Christianity. Why not, instead of making yourself look like an ass, accept Jesus as your saviour?

I admit that my understanding of your faith is rudimentary, but I feel that your understanding of my beliefs is no more developed.

We understand what you believe: A man in a labcoat who studies monkeys his whole life has told a man who writes science books to write some stuff about monkeys in them. Then a man who teaches science to children as a job (LOL) told you what to believe and that evilution was the way everything was created. Fish turned into Rhino's, Birds turned into dinosaurs etc. You sucked it all up with your milk at break time.

We know your kind, buddy. Don't underestimate us.

[wahran]

Re: Intro

Why not, instead of making yourself look like an ass, accept Jesus as your saviour?
...
We know your kind, buddy. Don't underestimate us.

I won't accept Jesus as my saviour because I don't blindly accept what people tell me or what's written in a book, I go and do some investigating myself.

And no, I won't underestimate you, I think you're dangerous, the lot of you. And you're intent on taking us back to the dark ages.