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  • #16
    Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

    Originally posted by jeremy72 View Post
    what does being a christian have to do with cutting taxes, cutting welfare, cutting SS, cutting medicaid, deregulation, free trade, etc? Explain to me why you are a christian conservative.

    It truly baffles me as well. So many of them will scream loudly that they don't have to do works when the Bible says just the opposite.

    1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

    1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

    Proverbs 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

    James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

    Proverbs 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

    Proverbs 22:9 He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor.

    1 Timothy 6:17-18 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
    That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

    Luke 3:10-11 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
    He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
    Proverbs 25:21-22 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
    For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

      Originally posted by jeremy72 View Post
      No it wouldn't. It would be good by your own twisted irrational logic, to everyone else you would still be a sicko pedophile who rapes his own daughter.
      Did you forget that you were the one who chose to use that disgusting example?

      Anyways, you seem to be looking at this totally wrong. Whatever God commands us to do is always morally right, simply because God commanded us to do it. Actions aren't right or wrong based upon whether we humans think they are, they're right or wrong based upon whether God thinks they are or not, and based upon what He requires, that can be subject to change.

      Ah so now you're admitting that the bible is contradictory. So what do you believe then? The parts that YOU agree with and ignore the ones you don't agree with? That's how it works with you?
      Maybe I can explain this in a way you'll be able to understand.

      God gives the Israelites a set of dietary laws. Then, roughly two thousand years later, God sends his only begotten Son to earth (otherwise known as Jesus). Among many other things (like assuring salvation for anyone who accepts Him and repents of their sins), Jesus abolished the dietary laws of the Old Testament. This means that, although the Israelites were bound to follow them at the time, we are no longer bound to follow them. Understand?

      Where did you get THAT notion from?
      I don't know, maybe this commandment?

      "Thou shalt not steal." Exodus 20:15

      There is a difference between charity given willingly, and taxes forcibly coerced, even if their use (debateably) has the same effect.

      Obama is a christian, the senate is 100% religious, and they all believe in the creation story, and most politicians either are or claim to be christian. Christians ALREADY dominate much of politics and this is why our country is so screwed up.
      Correction: false christians dominate much of politics and this is why our country is so "screwed up".

      If our politicians really followed Biblical law, we would be allowed to stone homosexuals and adulterers, kill witches and followers of false gods and burn harlots and heretics. Only under a True Christian™ theocracy would the world truly be at peace.

      You might be interested in creating your own country where you can live the way you want and not have to pay taxes. Nobody forced you to live in America.
      And the same goes for you. Also, if you are truly offended at the idea of people discussing the Bible and how to improve the world by following its teachings, then nothing is stopping you from clicking on that red x in the upper right corner of your screen.

      And yet as you clearly demonstrated earlier, when you find contradictory verses in the bible you CONVENIENTLY choose the one that JUST HAPPENS to coincide with your own personal beliefs. That's not cherry picking?
      The difference I've seen between your using Biblical verses to prove your points and the esteemed Rev. Rodimer using them to prove his points is he actually quotes them without divorcing them of the context they are intended to be read in. Its possible to do that without quoting the ENTIRE BIBLE to discuss a single verse or two.
      Last edited by Lycia The Repentant; 12-12-2010, 06:54 AM. Reason: Forget a word that completely changes what I was trying to say. Sorry Rev. Rodimer!
      "Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

      An Important Reminder for all unSaved© Ladies
      Protect Yourself! Important Information about Demons
      My five Six Step Guide to Stopping Your Miserable Harlotry!
      Do you hate fornication? Join the Junior Anti-Sex League and help stop it today!
      An Open Question to All false christians.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

        Originally posted by jeremy72 View Post
        No it wouldn't. It would be good by your own twisted irrational logic, to everyone else you would still be a sicko pedophile who rapes his own daughter.
        God defines what is good or evil. In fact, He creates good and evil. Isaiah 45:7

        I don't care what you or "everyone else" thinks, I care what God decides. You will live for the accolades of man, and you will have your reward. Matthew 6:2
        Ah so now you're admitting that the bible is contradictory.
        I did no such thing, Strawman. Sister Lycia addressed this perfectly, no need to repeat.
        Where did you get THAT notion from?
        See Sister Lycia's comments, Strawman.

        Obama is a christian, the senate is 100% religious, and they all believe in the creation story, and most politicians either are or claim to be christian. Christians ALREADY dominate much of politics and this is why our country is so screwed up.
        Obama is not a True Christian™, neither are the majority of politicians, and very few of them believe in Creation, Strawman. If they were and did, they would be fighting tooth and nail for their children's souls, not encouraging the teaching of Darwinism in schools.

        This country is screwed up because our leaders give lip service to Jesus to get elected, then ignore His Laws when creating their own.

        You might be interested in creating your own country where you can live the way you want and not have to pay taxes. Nobody forced you to live in America.
        As I previously stated, we are the majority. You atheists are the minority. When we have established a full Christian Theocracy by 2014, you will be forced to accept Jesus or leave.

        And yet as you clearly demonstrated earlier, when you find contradictory verses in the bible you CONVENIENTLY choose the one that JUST HAPPENS to coincide with your own personal beliefs. That's not cherry picking?
        My "personal beliefs" are irrelevant, and have not been discussed here, Strawman. I may think it a great idea for a woman to divorce her husband because he hits her. God says otherwise, and His commands and His Will take precedence over my flawed human conception of what is "fair" or "just".
        Bible boring? Nonsense!
        Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
        You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

          I believe that all arguments can be resolved through the teachings of Jesus Christ so if both of you can refrain from using Biblical verses from the Jewish Old Testament and stick to the New Testament, I believe this disagreement can be resolved. After all, we are Christians and not Jews.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

            Originally posted by Popdart View Post
            I believe that all arguments can be resolved through the teachings of Jesus Christ so if both of you can refrain from using Biblical verses from the Jewish Old Testament and stick to the New Testament, I believe this disagreement can be resolved. After all, we are Christians and not Jews.
            You do realize roughly 2/3 of the New Testament is quoting or alluding to the Old Testament, don't you Marcionist?
            "Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

            An Important Reminder for all unSaved© Ladies
            Protect Yourself! Important Information about Demons
            My five Six Step Guide to Stopping Your Miserable Harlotry!
            Do you hate fornication? Join the Junior Anti-Sex League and help stop it today!
            An Open Question to All false christians.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

              Originally posted by Popdart View Post
              I believe that all arguments can be resolved through the teachings of Jesus Christ so if both of you can refrain from using Biblical verses from the Jewish Old Testament and stick to the New Testament, I believe this disagreement can be resolved. After all, we are Christians and not Jews.
              Oh boy. If only had a nickel for every time I have read this.

              Most of the New Testament comes from the Old. A few examples include.

              Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
              This is the first and great commandment.
              And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

              Where did Jesus get those sayings from?

              Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

              Leviticus 19:17-18 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
              18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

              What did Jesus say when Satan tried to tempt Him?

              Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

              Where did Jesus get that from?

              Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

              So tell me where Jesus came to abolish the law?

              As lain out in Matthew 5? Perhaps you have read it.

              17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
              18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
              Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.


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              • #22
                Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                Marcionist is an incorrect label because they cut out the entire Old Testament while only selecting certain aspects of Jesus' teaching in the New Testament. I'm advocating the use of all of Jesus' teachings and while I do admit that he refers to a lot of the older Jewish books in the Old Testament, as the Son of God he would be teaching a purer form of God's teachings than what the Jews had established as their religion. That is why I believe that the New Testament should be used to support Christianity before quoting from the Old Testament.

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                • #23
                  Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                  Originally posted by Popdart View Post
                  Marcionist is an incorrect label because they cut out the entire Old Testament while only selecting certain aspects of Jesus' teaching in the New Testament. I'm advocating the use of all of Jesus' teachings and while I do admit that he refers to a lot of the older Jewish books in the Old Testament, as the Son of God he would be teaching a purer form of God's teachings than what the Jews had established as their religion. That is why I believe that the New Testament should be used to support Christianity before quoting from the Old Testament.
                  Okay, you are telling me when Jesus said "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" while quoting Deuteronomy, he doesn't really mean it.

                  How does that work, exactly?
                  Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.


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                  • #24
                    Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                    I never said that Jesus Christ was lying when he was quoting from Deuteronomy. I was merely saying that the Gospel, as spoken by Jesus Christ, should be relied upon as a better interpretation of God's word than the Old Testament. This is not to say that the Old Testament is wrong however it is likely that the Jews had perverted the teachings of God when they were following the Old Testament. In this instance Jesus was using God's teachings that were laid down in the Old Testament to foil Satan's attempts at corrupting him. In this instance, the Old Testament is correct. The fact that Jesus reiterated the teachings of God that were already established means that this section of the Old Testament was correct and not tainted by Satan's corruption.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                      Originally posted by Popdart View Post
                      I never said that Jesus Christ was lying when he was quoting from Deuteronomy. I was merely saying that the Gospel, as spoken by Jesus Christ, should be relied upon as a better interpretation of God's word than the Old Testament. This is not to say that the Old Testament is wrong however it is likely that the Jews had perverted the teachings of God when they were following the Old Testament.
                      So . . . you're not saying that the Old Testament is wrong, just that the Jews perverted the Old Testament, and therefore it is wrong.

                      What you are saying, friend, is that God failed to keep His promise to preserve His Word.

                      You are saying one of the following:
                      God is not all-knowing, because He doesn't know that His Word is corrupted. So, you think God is ignorant.

                      God is not all-powerful, because He can't change the words in books. So, you think God is weak.

                      God knows the Bible is corrupt and either doesn't care that it leads people to Hellfire, or enjoys this fact. So, you think God is uncaring or evil.

                      God does not exist.
                      Which is it?
                      Bible boring? Nonsense!
                      Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
                      You can't be a Christian if you don't know God's Word!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                        Originally posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
                        So . . . you're not saying that the Old Testament is wrong, just that the Jews perverted the Old Testament, and therefore it is wrong.

                        What you are saying, friend, is that God failed to keep His promise to preserve His Word.

                        You are saying one of the following:
                        God is not all-knowing, because He doesn't know that His Word is corrupted. So, you think God is ignorant.

                        God is not all-powerful, because He can't change the words in books. So, you think God is weak.

                        God knows the Bible is corrupt and either doesn't care that it leads people to Hellfire, or enjoys this fact. So, you think God is uncaring or evil.

                        God does not exist.
                        Which is it?

                        Such beauteous instruction, Pastor. Since this unbeliever has no faith, can I suggest

                        For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. KJV titus 3:3

                        and

                        10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
                        11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. KJV titus 3:10-11




                        As you can see, my studies today have been on Titus, but I feel the LORDS hand in my choice



                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                          So we should only take the words of Jesus?

                          Perhaps you should take a look at this.

                          Jesus is impolite. Deal with it.

                          Matthew
                          5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
                          5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
                          5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
                          7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
                          8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
                          10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
                          10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
                          10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
                          10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
                          13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
                          15:4-6 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
                          19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
                          25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
                          25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



                          I'd continue, but I doubt you can even be bothered to read the ones I've offered up.


                          Originally posted by silverspirit2001 View Post
                          Such beauteous instruction, Pastor. Since this unbeliever has no faith, can I suggest

                          For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. KJV titus 3:3

                          and

                          10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
                          11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. KJV titus 3:10-11




                          As you can see, my studies today have been on Titus, but I feel the LORDS hand in my choice



                          Okay, I love how JesOS seems to change the font whenever you idiots do a copy/paste from another site. Now please explain how Titus 3:10-11 fits into your fuzzy bunny form of Christianity? It's telling us to reject heretics. Do you know what a heretic is?
                          Drama queen

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                          • #28
                            Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                            Originally posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
                            God knows the Bible is corrupt
                            I am saying that God knew that the Bible was corrupt and so he sent his son Jesus to cleanse the perversions that the Jews had introduced to his book. This is similar to the story of Noah's ark in Genesis. God knew that the human race was corrupted however he did not try to save them or cleanse them. He simply chose the most pure man and his family and saved them while the rest of humanity perished.

                            When Jesus was sent to Earth to preach the true word of God, he did not try to change the Old Testament. He did not try to obliterate it. He offered the New Testament, which is composed of Jesus' teachings. The parts of the Old Testament that Jesus quoted from were the parts that had remained pure from the Jewish taint. While God is all powerful, I believe that he felt that humanity would benefit by having his true word spoken by a human. Because although Jesus was the son of God, he was born a human, raised as a human, and died as a human. It was through God's power that Jesus was resurrected and ascended to Heaven. And it was God's word that Jesus spoke to the people, and the people could choose to either accept it or reject it. God knew that humans, even though they were created in his image, had succumbed to imperfection and that not all would accept his teachings. But he did know that the truly righteous and pure would accept his teachings and be saved.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                              Originally posted by Popdart View Post
                              I am saying that God knew that the Bible was corrupt and so he sent his son Jesus to cleanse the perversions that the Jews had introduced to his book.
                              So what of all the scripture in Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and etc. speaking about the coming of the messiah.. were those also corrupted by Jews?

                              What about love they neighbor as thyself? Was that also corrupted?

                              What about there is no one righteous? Was that also corrupted by Jews in Psalm and Isaiah?
                              Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.


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                              • #30
                                Re: Why are so many christians conservatives?

                                "Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool: where is the house that ye build unto Me? And where is the place of My rest? For all those things hath Mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at My Word. Yet, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I will choose their delusions, and will bring their fear upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before Mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not." Isaiah 66:1-4
                                "The fool hath said in his heart, NO GOD ! They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Psalm 14:1 & 3 - 4
                                I believe that these were some of the passages that you were referring to. Well, by that logic, the Old Testament was completely and absolutely corrupt prior to the arrival of Jesus. When Jesus came and taught the words of God, he taught parts of the Old Testament but not all of it. Even though the the Old Testament is part of the Lord's Bible, it was written by man's hand and thus suffered from man's taint. It was not incorruptible as the only being that is incorruptible is God and Heaven. And as Jesus taught the Lord's word, he corrected parts of the Old Testament. However he only corrected parts, not all of it. So the taint on the Old Testament that was evident at the time of Jesus is still here today in certain sections. It takes a keen eye and a firm belief in God to deduce what parts are true and which are false. This is why I tend to quote from the New Testament before quoting from the Old Testament, because I firmly believe in the validity and purity of God's word, as spoken by Jesus and recorded by his disciples.

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