Humm

[Kyle93]

Hello, well first I would like to state my intentions on this forum. I am here to disuses you with your views. I am Christian myself. However, I am not what you may call "strict". I believe in a newer interpretation of the bible. I dont take everything that is written at face value.

Firstly, I would like to know how you can justify some of your views.



I may be wrong, however I was taught and told that people deserve respect. Be they black white gay lesbian male female short tall black hair etc. If you cant except people for who they are, are you better then hitter? It has been proven that you dont choose your sexuality. I'm not saying people dont do things in relation to sexual activitys. However there actual sexuality is not a choice. If God made us how we are then how can you say Gays etc are wrong?

That is just one example after a quick look over your forum.

Secondly, people have free will. Its proven, you cant tell them what to think or to view. People make up there own minds. I was always told, to live a Christian lifestyle to avoid going to hell. How some of the stuff on here can be justified as being Christian is beyond what I can think off. I was told, you dont completely have to be Christian to avoid a fiery eternity in hell. Respect and understanding are important.

Now, how can you justify this ?

Thats all I can think of now, I have a migraine and would prefer to be asleep right now. I am interested to see your views, and hope I get someone who is willing to explain well. Without just saying "you disagree, you are going to hell" I will ignore you.

Lastly, I defend Christians and try to teach the Christian way to others. So I know both sides of the argument so I will know a lot about what you will be saying. You will need to justify well.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Humm

Hello, well first I would like to state my intentions on this forum. I am here to disuses you with your views. I am Christian myself. However, I am not what you may call "strict". I believe in a newer interpretation of the bible. I dont take everything that is written at face value.

Really? What do you believe is not to be taken at face value? What parts specifically are not real and what parts are true? How do you come to this decision?

Firstly, I would like to know how you can justify some of your views.

You first and then we'll continue with your questions, if you don't mind.

I may be wrong, however I was taught and told that people deserve respect.

Did Jesus treat people with respect who disagreed with Him?

However there actual sexuality is not a choice. If God made us how we are then how can you say Gays etc are wrong?

So you believe that God created them to be gay and then told people not to be gay through the Bible only to damn them later.

You would be correct. I'm a big believer in predestination.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

2 Thessalonians 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Romans 5:11,15-22 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Secondly, people have free will. Its proven, you cant tell them what to think or to view. People make up there own minds.

Wait, you were just arguing that people don't have free will. You said God "makes" people gay.

How is that free will if God chooses whether you are gay or straight and they can't choose their sexuality?

Now I'm all confused.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Humm

Hello, well first I would like to state my intentions on this forum. I am here to disuses you with your views. I am Christian myself. However, I am not what you may call "strict". I believe in a newer interpretation of the bible. I dont take everything that is written at face value.

Dear friend:

You have piqued my curiousity about your beliefs. Please explain how you know which parts of the Bible not to take at face value and how you determine the true value of those parts.

Firstly, I would like to know how you can justify some of your views.



I may be wrong, however I was taught and told that people deserve respect. Be they black white gay lesbian male female short tall black hair etc. If you cant except people for who they are, are you better then hitter? It has been proven that you dont choose your sexuality. I'm not saying people dont do things in relation to sexual activitys. However there actual sexuality is not a choice. If God made us how we are then how can you say Gays etc are wrong?

I'm afraid that you are wrong. Both fags and fag-enablers deserve death; Scripture is quite clear on that:

Romans 1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

That is just one example after a quick look over your forum.

Secondly, people have free will. Its proven, you cant tell them what to think or to view. People make up there own minds. I was always told, to live a Christian lifestyle to avoid going to hell. How some of the stuff on here can be justified as being Christian is beyond what I can think off. I was told, you dont completely have to be Christian to avoid a fiery eternity in hell. Respect and understanding are important.

Then you were told wrong:

Matt. 7:21-22: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Rev. 3:15-16: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Now, how can you justify this ?

Please explain your issue with it.

[Kyle93]

Re: Humm

Really? What do you believe is not to be taken at face value? What parts specifically are not real and what parts are true? How do you come to this decision?


You first and then we'll continue with your questions, if you don't mind.

Well, I'm not saying that things are true or false. However, I am saying that certain things cant be used in this day and age.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - 12

If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

In what way can you relate that to this day and age? Things need to be related to now.

Did Jesus treat people with respect who disagreed with Him?

Again this, how can you expect others to treat you with respect and to understand your views if you dont extend the same respect.

So you believe that God created them to be gay and then told people not to be gay through the Bible only to damn them later.

You would be correct. I'm a big believer in predestination.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

2 Thessalonians 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Romans 5:11,15-22 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Wait, you were just arguing that people don't have free will. You said God "makes" people gay.

How is that free will if God chooses whether you are gay or straight and they can't choose their sexuality?

Now I'm all confused.

[/QUOTE]

Ok, firstly. There is no need for the last statement. There is no need to act in the way you did then. Back to the point raised tho, do we or do we not have free will. If we did not, how is it that I am writing this. If I did not then I would be physicaly unable to. Unless it is the devil acting through me.

You have completely missed the issue tho. I was asking how you can justify the hatred of gays etc. When if we cant choose our sexuality and God created us, how can it be wrong?

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Humm

I may be wrong, however I was taught and told that people deserve respect. Be they black white gay lesbian male female short tall black hair etc. If you cant except people for who they are, are you better then hitter?

Hitter?

Where does the Bible say that "people deserve respect"?

Jesus (in Mark 7) called a woman a dog because she was the wrong race. Is that respect?

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Well, that was rather rude, don’t you think? After all, Jesus is supposed to love everybody, right? “Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight”?

That doesn’t sound very loving!

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

The woman begs. Even so, Jesus doesn’t really care what she has to say:

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

The dog-woman begs Jesus to help her!

So, the people of Canaan (or the Greeks, if you’re reading Mark) are “dogs”. That makes her a dog-woman! And it must be true, because Jesus Himself said so!

Does it sound to you as though Jesus is saying that she’s a human-animal hybrid? Or is “dogs” an ethnic slur?

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.

She debases herself, calling herself a dog and accepting the insult, hoping desperately to get help.

It has been proven that you dont choose your sexuality.

Citation needed.

I'm not saying people dont do things in relation to sexual activitys. However there actual sexuality is not a choice. If God made us how we are then how can you say Gays etc are wrong?

If God makes people lust after the things they lust after, then that means God made pedophiles rape children. So how can you say that raping children is wrong?

Secondly, people have free will. Its proven, you cant tell them what to think or to view. People make up there own minds.

Which is it? Do people have free will, or does God make them the way they are? It can't be both. Either people choose to be pedophiles, or God makes them be pedophiles, in which case raping children (by your logic) is OK.

Pick one.

I was always told, to live a Christian lifestyle to avoid going to hell. How some of the stuff on here can be justified as being Christian is beyond what I can think off.

I guess that's because you never read the Bible, did you?

I was told, you dont completely have to be Christian to avoid a fiery eternity in hell. Respect and understanding are important.

Jesus seems to think differently on the subject:

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I think I'll take His word over yours, Sparky.

[Kyle93]

Re: Humm

Dear friend:

You have piqued my curiousity about your beliefs. Please explain how you know which parts of the Bible not to take at face value and how you determine the true value of those parts.

I'm afraid that you are wrong. Both fags and fag-enablers deserve death; Scripture is quite clear on that:

Romans 1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Then you were told wrong:

Matt. 7:21-22: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Rev. 3:15-16: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Please explain your issue with it.

How can you question my interpretation of the bible. When you are simply saying your view of it. I dont see in that quote anything that can back-up your view.

Secondly, again, I dont see how that backs up how my view is wrong.

Lastly, you are glorifying the kkk and the persecution of black people. If history was reversed and it was Christians that where the black people. And everything was reversed.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Humm

Well, I'm not saying that things are true or false. However, I am saying that certain things cant be used in this day and age.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - 12

If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

In what way can you relate that to this day and age? Things need to be related to now.

I don't see why the same law couldn't be enacted today. More generally, please explain the process by which you relate things to now, if doing so is to have any meaning beyond hand-waving away any part of God's Word that you don't like.

You have completely missed the issue tho. I was asking how you can justify the hatred of gays etc. When if we cant choose our sexuality and God created us, how can it be wrong?

It is you who have completely missed the issue. Pastor Sampson has already given a direct quote from Scripture that refutes your argument.

[Kyle93]

Re: Humm

I am going to choose to leave this. I dont want to sink to your level, where I have to attack others beliefs. You don't listen to my view, and you are un-willing to even think about my views. Your views are extremely old out dated. Just as it is written, does not make it true. There are different ways of understanding the bible. Yours is not always correct. You should re-think your views on matters. Honestly you make me ashamed to call myself "Christian"

I will pray for you in the hope that you can see other sides of the view.

Please close this, and delete my account. I dont wish to cause more hatred on either party in this situation.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Humm

How can you question my interpretation of the bible. When you are simply saying your view of it.

You have repeatedly been asked how you interpret the Bible and how you know that your interpretation is correct, and you refuse to explain it to us. If all you can do is make unsupported assertions, then no, we will not take you seriously. Why should we?

I dont see in that quote anything that can back-up your view.

Secondly, again, I dont see how that backs up how my view is wrong.

I quoted Scripture to disprove your assertions that sodomites deserve respect and that "you dont completely have to be Christian to avoid a fiery eternity in hell."

Lastly, you are glorifying the kkk and the persecution of black people.

We also have emoticons relating to Catholicism and Islam. Do you think that we're thereby glorifying those cults?

If history was reversed and it was Christians that where the black people. And everything was reversed.

You've given the "if" part of the statement. What's the "then" part?

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Humm

Well, I'm not saying that things are true or false. However, I am saying that certain things cant be used in this day and age.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - 12

If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

In what way can you relate that to this day and age? Things need to be related to now.

You want to do away with bestiality laws too?

Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Because the rules are old means we should throw them out?

What about these esoteric Old Testament scriptures? Should we throw them out as well?

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Again, who gets to say what still applies and what doesn't? Where do you apply that judgment and how do you decide it?

Again this, how can you expect others to treat you with respect and to understand your views if you dont extend the same respect.

This is a forum for Christians to fellowship together. It's not a place for debates even though debates do often break out.

Christians are not to have dealings with unbelievers, according to the Bible.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ok, firstly. There is no need for the last statement.
There is no need to act in the way you did then.

I don't know how I hurt your feelings, friend. It certainly wasn't my intention.

Back to the point raised tho, do we or do we not have free will. If we did not, how is it that I am writing this. If I did not then I would be physicaly unable to. Unless it is the devil acting through me. You have completely missed the issue tho. I was asking how you can justify the hatred of gays etc. When if we cant choose our sexuality and God created us, how can it be wrong?

Think about it for a while. God created people to be homosexuals, right? God then told people not to be homosexuals. The gays either have a choice to be gay or they don't. The Bible says it clearly in black and white that homosexuality is a sin. There's no denying that.

By your logic, God also creates murders and drug dealers or was it that people have free will to be those things? Remember God is omniscient. He knows everything that will happen to everyone from the beginning of time forward.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Humm

I am going to choose to leave this. I dont want to sink to your level, where I have to attack others beliefs. You don't listen to my view, and you are un-willing to even think about my views.

In other words, we don't immediately agree to turn our backs on God's Word and listen to you instead?

Typical.

Your views are extremely old out dated. Just as it is written, does not make it true.

Actually, it being God's Inerrant Word pretty much by definition makes it true.

God, being ALL-POWERFUL, could update His Bible if He desired, don't you agree?

Yet it says what it says. Therefore, that's what God wants us to read and follow.

If you think the Bible is "outdated", then you are saying God can't change it to meet what He wants it to say. That's effectively saying God doesn't exist!

There are different ways of understanding the bible. Yours is not always correct. You should re-think your views on matters.

See, we agree on something. You should read the Bible and re-think your "relativistic" views which ignore any part of the Bible you don't like.

Honestly you make me ashamed to call myself "Christian"

You make me ashamed that you call yourself "Christian", too.

I will pray for you in the hope that you can see other sides of the view.

Please close this, and delete my account. I dont wish to cause more hatred on either party in this situation.

I will pray that you decide that God's opinion is more important than your own ideas of "right" and "wrong".

And sorry, your account will not be deleted, and this thread will remain here for others to see your God-mockery and your hatred of His Word in favor of your own perverse, Satan-inspired, liberal ideas.

[Kyle93]

Re: Humm

In other words, we don't immediately agree to turn our backs on God's Word and listen to you instead?

Typical.



Actually, it being God's Inerrant Word pretty much by definition makes it true.

God, being ALL-POWERFUL, could update His Bible if He desired, don't you agree?

Yet it says what it says. Therefore, that's what God wants us to read and follow.

If you think the Bible is "outdated", then you are saying God can't change it to meet what He wants it to say. That's effectively saying God doesn't exist!



See, we agree on something. You should read the Bible and re-think your "relativistic" views which ignore any part of the Bible you don't like.


You make me ashamed that you call yourself "Christian", too.


I will pray that you decide that God's opinion is more important than your own ideas of "right" and "wrong".

And sorry, your account will not be deleted, and this thread will remain here for others to see your God-mockery and your hatred of His Word in favor of your own perverse, Satan-inspired, liberal ideas.

Ohh, I just had to log back in to reply to you Sir.

Basically you are saying. I disagree with you, I'm going to hell and me and Satan are bum buddy's.

In what way am I saying to turn you back on God? I'm not. You need to stop thinking your so right and read what I am saying.

You cant relate everything to now. We are not living in the same times as when the bible was written.

Let me rephrase that. Your views, and your inability to have a logical talk where you listen and understand other views. Make me ashamed to call myself Christian, and ashamed you call yourself Christian.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Humm

You cant relate everything to now. We are not living in the same times as when the bible was written.

How about you sit down with the Bible reading it from cover to cover take one highlighter for the parts you agree with and take another for the parts you think are outdated or have no bearing on life today?

After you finish that project, then maybe we have something tangible to talk about.

This nebulous claim that there are parts of the Bible we shouldn't follow, has no backing in either scripture or logic, especially considering you can't even elaborate on what should not be followed much less how you figure out on what authority you deny God's Word.

Try actually reading the Bible and then get back to us. Your soul is not a software agreement you just click yes to without reading it.

Saying, "We don't have to follow the entire thing," is simply an excuse for being lazy.

[Kyle93]

Re: Humm

How about you sit down with the Bible reading it from cover to cover take one highlighter for the parts you agree with and take another for the parts you think are outdated or have no bearing on life today?

After you finish that project, then maybe we have something tangible to talk about.

This nebulous claim that there are parts of the Bible we shouldn't follow, has no backing in either scripture or logic, especially considering you can't even elaborate on what should not be followed much less how you figure out on what authority you deny God's Word.

Try actually reading the Bible and then get back to us. Your soul is not a software agreement you just click yes to without reading it.

Saying, "We don't have to follow the entire thing," is simply an excuse for being lazy.

Well, I have read most of it at Sunday school. I would read it now, however reading gives me migraines. Another work of the all loving God. Kinnda means I cant do what you want.

I'm not defying Gods word. I am saying, I have a different interpretation of the bible. Just as yours is an interpretation of the bible. Just like religious extremists understand the bible, thats what they view. Is that Gods will?

[Brother Enoch]

Re: Humm

Your views are extremely old out dated. Just as it is written, does not make it true.

I see. So rather than accepting the Bible as God's inerrant and timeless Word, you choose to ignore or reinterpret the parts you don't like and remake the Bible into something you feel more comfortable with. Because you know better than God, right? Well, good luck with that!