[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Catholics say the same. Are you calling them Bible-believing Christians now?

Once again, please explain how pedobaptism is justified and meaningful, when you know that it is of no effect whatsoever and does not confer salvation.

Rev Rodimer,

Of course Catholics are NOT Bible-believing Christians! Their Bible has too many books in it. My denomination, Presbyterians, were among the first to tell the Pope where to go, back in the 16th century.

You seem to think that only those who consciously experience Baptism gain any benefit from it. This is because for Baptists baptism is merely a carnal experience. For pedobaptists it is a spiritual one, conveying the full blessings of the sacrament.

Furthermore, I challenge you to come up with a Scripture that expressly prohibits infant baptism. If you are going to reject 2,000 years of tradition, the burden of proof is on you.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

I hope I'm not intruding into your conversation but noticed in my morning Bible reading that only male babies were to be circumcised (including babies purchased Genesis 17:12).

Parents therefore have the ability to enter into covenants on their children's behalf, and God can punish the children for breaking the covenant even if they were ignorant of it.

Genesis 17:14 And the vncircumcised man-child, whose flesh of his foreskinne is not circumcised, that soule shall be cut off from his people: hee hath broken my couenant.
©1611

God is quite clear here that should the owners of any male baby decide not to have the thing circumcised it is the baby who has broken the covenant. Circumcision is not required for the covenant to be binding on the baby. If the anathematised baby subsequently became involved in some other religious practice, naturally it should be killed. God is always so clear and we are so lucky to know His Perfect Love, even for infants.



The other examples cited refer to the (masculine) house, as in "The House of Usher" rather than to a direct kinship group [which had already been defined in Genesis 17]. The "house" appears in verse32 but not in verse33 which reflects the usage in Ephesians 3 v.s. and although the difference is slight, it is there and if anyone wished to obsess over slight differences in the text I am happy to post Scripture. Obviously I will not be expressing any opinions - and I am most certainly NOT OBSESSIONAL. That is why I am a Baptist.

we are not cast aside, solitary forlorn and wretched . . . . . . Praise Him!

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

If this is not enough to convince you, let me quote from the Westminster Shorter Catechism, which is based on the Bible and written in the same language as the KJV:

Q. 95. To whom is Baptism to be administered?
A. Baptism is not to be administered to any that are out of the visible church, till they profess their faith in Christ, and obedience to him; but the infants of such as are members of the visible church are to be baptized.

How much clearer can you get?

Catholics say the same. Are you calling them Bible-believing Christians now?

Once again, please explain how pedobaptism is justified and meaningful, when you know that it is of no effect whatsoever and does not confer salvation.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Look! It's me! Not buying it!

Try again. Upon what Scriptural basis do you baptize infants, knowing full well that it is an utterly meaningless exercise, as a predestined-for-Heaven unbaptized infant would go to Heaven, and a predestined-for-Hell baptized infant would go to Hell?

Ah yes, you again. I enjoy our discussions on pedobaptism. You have been very persistent in your desire to understand my position. Clearly, the Lord is drawing you, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek the truth.

Rev Rodimer, there are a plethora of verses supporting infant baptism. Acts 10:47-48 — the household of Cornelius was baptised. Acts 16:15 — the household of Lydia was baptised. Acts 16:33 — the household of the Philpian jailer was baptised. I Cor 1:16 — Paul baptised the household of Stephanas.

Furthermore, as I mentioned in an earlier post, baptism replaces circumcision (Col 2:11-12). Circumcision was a sign a God's covenant with his chosen people, Israel. The children of the people of Israel were required to be circumcised (pedocircumcision), and proselytes were required to be circumcised (credocircumcision). But when Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit descended, baptism replaced circumcision. For when the Holy Spirit fell on the apostles at Pentecost, Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, AND TO YOUR CHILDREN." A promise from God is a covenant. Under this new covenant, the children of God's chosen people, his church, were to be baptised as a sign of the promise.

Baptists are notoriously weak on covenant theology. They do not understand how covenants work. First, let me say that the Bible gives parents complete control over their children. They can cut off bits of their children's genitalia (Gen 17:10-11) and kill them (Deut 21:18-21). Parents therefore have the ability to enter into covenants on their children's behalf, and God can punish the children for breaking the covenant even if they were ignorant of it. This still applies under the New Covenant in the church era. Parents enter their children into covenant with God through baptism, and if they break covenant when they grow up, He will destroy them.

If this is not enough to convince you, let me quote from the Westminster Shorter Catechism, which is based on the Bible and written in the same language as the KJV:

Q. 95. To whom is Baptism to be administered?
A. Baptism is not to be administered to any that are out of the visible church, till they profess their faith in Christ, and obedience to him; but the infants of such as are members of the visible church are to be baptized.

How much clearer can you get?

In truth, I think God has allowed Baptists to stumble at this point to keep them from getting too proud. They have got it right on so many points, yet this is the thorn in their flesh. But when Jesus returns, he will correct all false doctrines. I look forward to the day when you and I stand before the throne of Christ as pedobaptistic Calvinists.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

God has predestined us Calvinists to baptise infants, and since predestination overrides free will, we can't help ourselves.

Look! It's me! Not buying it!

Try again. Upon what Scriptural basis do you baptize infants, knowing full well that it is an utterly meaningless exercise, as a predestined-for-Heaven unbaptized infant would go to Heaven, and a predestined-for-Hell baptized infant would go to Hell?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Sadly, neither of these men are a good representative for Australia, and Steve Irwin is already burning in hell. Probably the most godly Australian I know would be Ken Ham, founder of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum.

I hear you there. Ham is a godly and wise man. He is truly a great apologist for the Young Earth Creation movement.

I have decided I like you, Pim.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

I would very much appreciate your prayer, and I hope I will be healed, but I know my affliction is not because of my position on baptism, which is based on the grammatical-historical method of interpreting Scripture. I will also be praying for you, that the Lord will open your eyes to understand His Word.

Hi Pim. I am sure your deafness is not your fault.
Babies are born full of sin and as such, heaping more misery on them is pointless. However, if a parent or other relation has angered God, what a better fitting punishment than to damage a baby. I suspect with a little reflection, you'll be able to identify the person that is angering Him, most likely a person that speaks ill of God outside of Church at a Bar or Bordello. I suspect your mother as women as so weak and poor thinkers.
I think with enough prayer and time, God will grant you the gift of hearing, probably after the person who wronged Him is suffering the well deserved torments of Hell.
I have to ask you a question. Being an American, born and Bred in the US of A, I have never heard of a name such as yours except in eurpoean tales of sodomy. You might want to consider asking Jesus to change it.
In any case, welcome to our little spot of peace and sharing on the Republican Internet.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Since you are a Calvinist, believing in absolute predestination, what exactly is the point of pedobaptism? The child cannot express belief as he does not understand, and the rituals of man have no effect when the soul is predestined for Heaven or Hell.

Kindly explain.

God has predestined us Calvinists to baptise infants, and since predestination overrides free will, we can't help ourselves. Likewise God has predestined Baptists to follow the unscriptural practice of believers-only Baptism, so no matter what I say, you probably won't change your mind. And since God has predestined children in Calvinist churches to be baptised, what they want is irrelevant. I hope this clarifies things for you.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Being Austrian, do you consider Crocadile Dundee or Steve Irwin to be a finer representative of your race?

Sadly, neither of these men are a good representative for Australia, and Steve Irwin is already burning in hell. Probably the most godly Australian I know would be Ken Ham, founder of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum.

[Christianzionist]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

I would very much appreciate your prayer, and I hope I will be healed, but I know my affliction is not because of my position on baptism, which is based on the grammatical-historical method of interpreting Scripture. I will also be praying for you, that the Lord will open your eyes to understand His Word.

Being Austrian, do you consider Crocadile Dundee or Steve Irwin to be a finer representative of your race?

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Rev Rodimer,

To clarify my previous comment, if someone comes to faith in Christ as, say, an adolescent or an adult and they have not previously been baptised in a sound church (being baptised in a Mormon church wouldn't count, for that is not a sound church), then they should be baptised and the option of full immersion would be open to them. This is believer's baptism, and we practise this. The difference is that we do not practise believers-only baptism; we also practise pedobaptism. I hope that the Lord opens your heart to understanding.

Since you are a Calvinist, believing in absolute predestination, what exactly is the point of pedobaptism? The child cannot express belief as he does not understand, and the rituals of man have no effect when the soul is predestined for Heaven or Hell.

Kindly explain.

[Christianzionist]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

I would very much appreciate your prayer, and I hope I will be healed, but I know my affliction is not because of my position on baptism, which is based on the grammatical-historical method of interpreting Scripture. I will also be praying for you, that the Lord will open your eyes to understand His Word.

I am blushing, thank you.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Prayer backed by belief can move mountains, why do mock the LORD oh ye of little faith?

Everything the LORD does is for a reason, and I feel that God wants you to be baptised as a Believer.

I am not promising you anything but God may unsmiteth you of your affliction if you decide to obey His commands.

I would very much appreciate your prayer, and I hope I will be healed, but I know my affliction is not because of my position on baptism, which is based on the grammatical-historical method of interpreting Scripture. I will also be praying for you, that the Lord will open your eyes to understand His Word.

[Christianzionist]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Please pray for me. I hope it wasn't my fault.

Prayer backed by belief can move mountains, why do mock the LORD oh ye of little faith?

Everything the LORD does is for a reason, and I feel that God wants you to be baptised as a Believer.

I am not promising you anything but God may unsmiteth you of your affliction if you decide to obey His commands.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings from Down Under

Calvinists don't believe in pedobaptism, if I recall correctly.



It's difficult to say. Perhaps it was so Jesus could heal you of it to show His mighty power.

John 9:2-3 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

It also could be that one of your ancestors sinned.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

But there's good news! Perhaps we could arrange to pray for you to heal you and arrange for God to forgive you of whatever sins you or your ancestors committed to receive this blemish.

James 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If it doesn't work, it was your fault.

James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Please pray for me. I hope it wasn't my fault.