[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: A special case

I read the passages about the hell and have to say one thing. Much of the bible is meant symbolic. So it's up to me if i take it literally or as a symbolic story.

Let me explain why you're wrong by way of alliteration.


Three chefs were working in a restaurant one day, when their kitchen supervisor approached them with an order, and instructions on how to properly prepare it. The first chef looked at the instructions, and said "You can show a recipe to 100 different people, and each of them get a different meaning. You can't understand recipes, so why even read them?"

The second chef took a slightly different angle. He said "I don't believe this recipe to be the literal directions of our supervisor. I believe the ingredients all have hidden meanings. I think the meat represents one thing, the spices and other ingredients symbolize something else, and the time and cooking temperature are some sort of mysterious allegory."

While the other two were engaging in their debate, the third chef simply took the recipe, and prepared the dish according to instructions. The dish turned out to be delicious, and I'm sure you can guess what happened next. This chef was rewarded for following directions properly, while the other two were reprimanded, or worse.

While this little story may seem somewhat silly, it sadly illustrates the attitude that many people take toward God and His Word, the Bible, which is to be OUR instructions, our "recipe," for how to live our lives.

As we will examine shortly, Jesus and the Apostles took the Bible quite literally. The tendency to allegorize and spiritualize Scripture was popularized around A.D.250 by a man named Origen. Origen was a prolific author, and a valiant evangelist in the early church. He suffered brutal persecution, and eventually martyrdom for his beliefs. Although his courage and zeal were certainly commendable, he unfortunately embraced several false and heretical doctrines, which stemmed from his unorthodox views of Scripture. Rather than affirm the Apostolic teaching that the Scriptures were the infallible Word of God, he taught that they were merely the "husk" which hid the "kernel" of Truth, and thus, began replacing the plainly revealed teachings of Scripture with enigmatic, allegorical interpretations. As a result of this teaching, the floodgates were open to a devastating deluge of confusion and division, from which the church has never fully recovered. In order for the Church as a whole to function as God intends, there MUST be a re-discovery of the foundational,literal Truth of the Bible.

THE CHARACTER OF THE BIBLE

To understand the intended meaning of Scripture, let's look at what the Bible says about itself. The Bible is a REVELATION, which means " to reveal, to unveil, to lift a curtain for all to see." God gave us the Bible to REVEAL Truth, not to CONCEAL it. The Bible is written in simple terms, for simple people (Matthew 11:25; 13:19-23; 2 Corinthians 4:1-6; 2 Timothy 3:16-17.) 80% of the Bible is simply history, promises, and guidelines for living. The other 20% consists of prophecies about future events.

Understand that when we refer to the Bible being literal, we are not denying that it does contain some figurative language. However, we need to keep two important facts in mind;

1)When figurative language is being used, it is obvious.

2)The figurative language is always intended to convey a literal truth.

For example, when Jesus referred to Himself as a "vine" (John 15:1,) He obviously didn't mean that He had leaves and grapes growing out of His arms!Rather, He was illustrating the literal truth that His relationship with His disciples can be compared to a vine's relationship with it's branches.

STATEMENTS OF JESUS AND THE APOSTLES

Whenever Jesus, the Apostles,or any other New Testament figure quoted from Scripture, they quoted it as literal, historical, and authoritative. An example of this would be creation. Both Jesus and Paul affirm that Adam and Eve were literal, historic figures (Matthew 19:4; 1 Timothy 2:14-15.) The doctrine of original sin, which Paul so powerfully teaches in Romans 5, would be meaningless if there were not a literal fall. In addition,the Bible gives us the general location of the Garden of Eden, near the Pishon, Gihon, Tigris, and Euphrates rivers (Genesis 2:10-14.) This would place it around modern Iraq or northern Syria.

Other examples of Old Testament events quoted as literal history include; Cain and Able (Genesis 4, Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12.) the flood (Genesis 7; Matthew 24:39) the call of Abraham (Genesis12-13; Hebrews 11:8,) the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19; Luke 17:29,) the exodus from Egypt (Exodus 14:22; 1 Corinthians 10-1-2,) Jonah and the great fish (Jonah 2; Matthew 12:40,) and Daniel in the Lion's den (Daniel 6, Hebrews 11:33.)

FULFILLED PROPHECY

Another example of the literal character of the Bible is the literal fulfillment of prophecy. Although prophecy does sometimes use figurative language to convey its point, such as the dream of King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2, and much of the Book of Revelation, the prophecies all point to specific, literal events. Let's look at a few of them;

THE FLOOD: Prophesied in Genesis 6:3, literally fulfilled in Genesis 7:10.

JOSHUA AND CALEB'S ENTRY INTO CANAAN (Numbers 14:24,30) Literally fulfilled in Joshua 3:7,17;14:6-12.

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE (1 Kings 9:7; 2 Chronicles 7:20-21; Jeremiah 7:14) Literal fulfillment-2 Kings 25:9

THE FALL OF JERICHO(Joshua 6:1-5) Literally fulfilled in Joshua 6:20.

THE DESTRUCTION OF TYRE (Ezekiel 26:3-5,12,14.) Literal fulfillment- When King Nebuchadnezzar attacked and laid siege to the city, tearing down the walls and towers. Then, in 332 B.C., Alexander the Great took the city after a seven month siege. TO THIS DAY this area is used by fishermen as a place to lay their nets, just like it says in verse 14.

As you can see from these,and many other examples, Bible prophecy is fulfilled, literally, and in very meticulous detail. As is the case for all of the Bible, the God who created us also knows how to communicate with us. God is not trying to confuse us, as He is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33.) He WANTS to make Himself known to us because He loves us, and wants to have a relationship with us. He gave us the Bible to show us how to establish and build that relationship. The Bible reveals to us the heart of God, what does and doesn't please Him, and how we are to worship and follow Him. Above all,He gave it to us to reveal Jesus to us, who is the one who made it possible for us to have this relationship. If you have never given your life to Him, He is knocking at the door of your heart right now.He loves you,and wants you to be with Him forever.Why not turn your life over to Him now?If you need more information,please let us know.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: A special case

But if i would see god or something that can only be created by him (like an impossible thing) then i would believe in him without hesitation.

However, your mindset, which apparebtly has bound you in chains, has resulted in your damnable view of Jesus and His Word(r).

Matthew
20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

With out Faith(c) you will not be delivered from hell.

Hebrews
11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is apparent tha you have not been exposed to True-Preachers(r) of the Word(c).

Romans
10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

You are here because Jesus is reaching out His Loving Hands to touch you through his Favorite Church.

You cannot hear without a preacher, and you cannot call on him in whom you have not heard, which takes faith-that is given from Jesus.

Romans
10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Remember, heathen, your soul is being weighed in the balance. Flames, and barbed demon members await you if you reject the "draw" of the Father(r). Do not ignore the speech of True-Christians(tm) or you will burn for eternity.

John
6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: A special case

I just think about it very rational. Gays doesn't help humanity to spread more but rather go against it. Such a behavior isn't tolerable, because it destroys our race.

Which race is that?

Are you a racist, on top of all the other irrational bigotry you espouse, like these:

Feminists, vegans, vegetarians, muslims, liberals, democrats, poor people who want money from the rich, Agnostics (because they cannot decide), weak-minded persons, humanists...

Why should you care if a woman wants a job, or if a person wants to eat no meat? Why should you care about someone being agnostic (please find out the correct definition, idiot, they're not indecisive)? Why should you be against humanists, who espouse as their most basic belief that they can be good without God? What is any of that to you? Do you say that you cannot be good without God?

Maybe you can't, seeing as you're an irrational, raging bigot.

God condemns most, but not all. But what is your reasoning?

They take resources all the time without giving the humanity something back in return and that's just antisocial behaviour.

They don't work for the resources they consume?

Explain why the "gay ghetto" in every major city in the US is an area that was run down, that the queers took over and rehabilitated, making it into one of the highest-value neighborhoods. That's a big boost to a Godless city's tax base. Since you don't care about God's will, wouldn't you want lots of two-income no-kids gay couples to move in, rehab neighborhoods, and make your city wealthy?

And don't worry, i already noted in the beginning that i'm a special case and probably a very small minority under atheists.

Oh, you're a special case, all right.

I just don't believe the parts with god and the creation, but i think all the moral introductions in the bible are rational because they exist since thousends of years and the people really gave a thought about what they wrote.

Then you agree that adulterers like Newt Gingrich should be put to death. Yes?

I already thought about the existence of god and it's possible, but for me atheism is easier to believe. But if i would see god or something that can only be created by him (like an impossible thing) then i would believe in him without hesitation.

How about a universe?

I read the passages about the hell and have to say one thing. Much of the bible is meant symbolic.

Do tell, where does it say that it is symbolic? How do you know which parts are symbolic?

Maybe the torture is means strong remorse or something similar.

How do you get "strong remorse" from "vast lake of fire where you are burned alive for all time"?

But to make it clear: I didn't ever say something bad against god or Jesus.

Sure you did. You said He doesn't exist.

You are quite possibly the worst kind of atheist. You are the kind who both denies the truth of the Bible, but also uses it as an excuse for your unbridled hatred for anyone not like you.

[Nobar King]

Re: A special case

Are you really sure that you're an atheist?

[RepublicanAtheist]

Re: A special case

He loves you,and wants you to be with Him forever.Why not turn your life over to Him now?If you need more information,please let us know.

Then why even put me to hell in the first place? Hate and revenge aren't properties of a loving god, are they?

Remember, heathen, your soul is being weighed in the balance. Flames, and barbed demon members await you if you reject the "draw" of the Father®. Do not ignore the speech of True-Christians™ or you will burn for eternity.

I read the bible quotes about hell, but there aren't any about demons.

A place of outer darkness - "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13).

This is the description which fits most for me. This tells me, that the hell is a dark and lonely place.

Which race is that?
Humanity

Why should you care if a woman wants a job, or if a person wants to eat no meat? Why should you care about someone being agnostic (please find out the correct definition, idiot, they're not indecisive)? Why should you be against humanists, who espouse as their most basic belief that they can be good without God? What is any of that to you? Do you say that you cannot be good without God?

Women won't care about kids if they work. Vegans make their kids suffer because they don't allow them to eat flesh. Agnostic people don't make a decision and are therefore double-edged people. And i don't like humanists because of their liberal attitude, but i'm not saying that a human can't be good without a god.

God condemns most, but not all. But what is your reasoning?

Life experience.


Then you agree that adulterers like Newt Gingrich should be put to death. Yes?

Not to death, but he should be punished with a large amount of money-

How about a universe?

In this universe there exists the law of causality and therefore something cannot come from nothing. But before the universe existed, such laws didn't existed and energy could come from nothing and go to nothing.

Do tell, where does it say that it is symbolic? How do you know which parts are symbolic?
The creation story for example. It's actually a song made in the city of Babylon made by some jew priests to unite the jews.

How do you get "strong remorse" from "vast lake of fire where you are burned alive for all time"?

I already told you, that i don't believe in hell literally.

Sure you did. You said He doesn't exist.

I said, that Jesus existed, but he wasn't god's son, because god doesn't exist for me. And to hate something it is necessary that it actually exists.

You are quite possibly the worst kind of atheist. You are the kind who both denies the truth of the Bible, but also uses it as an excuse for your unbridled hatred for anyone not like you.

I use bible quotes for christians and rational-logical ones for atheists. Maybe I'm really one of the worst atheists, but never mind.

Are you really sure that you're an atheist?

Atheist by definition:

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
So yeah, i am.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: A special case

Your responses don't even make rational sense.

For example:

Do tell, where does it say that it is symbolic? How do you know which parts are symbolic?
The creation story for example. It's actually a song made in the city of Babylon made by some jew priests to unite the jews.

That's not the Bible saying it's symbolic. That's you making a claim based upon nothing, with no citation.

How do you get "strong remorse" from "vast lake of fire where you are burned alive for all time"?

I already told you, that i don't believe in hell literally.

And you said the Bible meant it to be "strong remorse". So where do you get that? You're making a claim about what the Bible "means". Back it up with something other than your idiotic, irrational, bigoted, God-hating opinion.

[RepublicanAtheist]

Re: A special case

That's not the Bible saying it's symbolic. That's you making a claim based upon nothing, with no citation.


And you said the Bible meant it to be "strong remorse". So where do you get that? You're making a claim about what the Bible "means". Back it up with something other than your idiotic, irrational, bigoted, God-hating opinion.

I once learned by my religion teacher that the creation story is actually a song. The waters everything is made of were a reference to the ocean nearly Babylon.
And personally i just tried to interpret the hell descriptions. But i don't really believe in that either. Actually do i think the hell was just there to make people fear god and bind them to judaism.
There is just nothing after dead in my opinion.

[Didymus Much]

Re: A special case

I once learned by my religion teacher that the creation story is actually a song. The waters everything is made of were a reference to the ocean nearly Babylon...

ci·ta·tion   [sahy-tey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
...5. the act of citing or quoting a reference to an authority or a precedent.

Do that. Without a verifiable reference, what you've done until now is also known as "pulling shit from your ass", and deserves as much respect.

[RepublicanAtheist]

Re: A special case

Do that. Without a verifiable reference, what you've done until now is also known as "pulling shit from your ass", and deserves as much respect.

Okay, then i tell you: I think so because the historical-critical method teach me this.

[Didymus Much]

Re: A special case

Okay, then i tell you: I think so because the historical-critical method teach me this.

Based on what reference?

Oy.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: A special case

Worst.

Atheist.

EVER.



This guy couldn't convince me to try curried chicken, much less renounce God.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Didymus Much]

Re: A special case

Worst.

Atheist.

EVER....

Not so fast, there's serious competition here.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: A special case

Not so fast, there's serious competition here.

We truly are spoilt for choice.

[RepublicanAtheist]

Re: A special case

Worst.

Atheist.

EVER.



This guy couldn't convince me to try curried chicken, much less renounce God.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

Did I EVER tried to to convince you into not believing in god anymore?!
I said it in the beginning, that i just want to have some conversions with you, nothing more, nothing less.
And I'm not seeking acknowledgment for my religious view or something like that.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A special case

Did I EVER tried to to convince you into not believing in god anymore?!
I said it in the beginning, that i just want to have some conversions with you, nothing more, nothing less.
And I'm not seeking acknowledgment for my religious view or something like that.

No, we are just merely observing the serious levels of what professionals call the 'tards in you atheists.