[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Nonsense. God knows you better than Santa (Psalm 139:1-24). These are God's Words, not mine.



You think He will be horrified by hearing His Glorious Words repeated?



Sharing the Word of God is evil?



"Son" is an expression, dear. It doesn't mean I have mistaken you as my own dear child.

I simply love how hilarious you are by changing my statuses, photo etc. (It is my hypothesy by taking into account people who read this post and who is online and discussing with me for some time). Assumed my skin is dark brown? pretty wrong. Assumed my eyes are bad (looking on photo) Wrong! got pretty good sight so far.
So to answer your questions, because I'm that nice person:

You think He will be horrified by hearing His Glorious Words repeated?

I can pretty much say representation of pure good wouldn't be
potty-mouthed, we can assume bible was written by man from words of God and what those of written it saw and how they assumed how he meant it or what happened. Because men are imperfect. You assume it every second every day by your look on atheists.

Sharing the Word of God is evil?
No, killing in the name of God is evil, because is deed done by men, who think God will do it this way without being told so by Him directly. nor by God, nor by Angels or Celestial Beings (it has same meaning as angel in case of christianity).

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

You think He will be horrified by hearing His Glorious Words repeated?

I can pretty much say representation of pure good wouldn't be
potty-mouthed, we can assume bible was written by man from words of God and what those of written it saw and how they assumed how he meant it or what happened. Because men are imperfect. You assume it every second every day by your look on atheists.

So in your opinion, when the LORD says that every line is God-Breathed, all are suitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16), what He really means is every chapter reflects a vague idea formulated over time in the minds of men that may or may not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, but these ideas could reflect God's Mind and Will or they could reflect the culture of the people, we can't really know. Is that what you're saying? Because if so, that's low blow to the Holy Ghost, to trivialize Him and His Divine Work like that.

Sharing the Word of God is evil?
No, killing in the name of God is evil, because is deed done by men, who think God will do it this way without being told so by Him directly. nor by God, nor by Angels or Celestial Beings (it has same meaning as angel in case of christianity).

So when God commands man to do a thing, and man does this thing out of love (John 14:15), this is evil? In other words one of these conditions must apply:

• God makes communication between Him and man so vague and unreliable that one cannot know if his thoughts are from the Holy Ghost or his own human consciousness,
• God commands man to do heinous acts out of His own moral ignorance,
• God commands men to do evil things because it reflects His evil intent.

In either case, you paint a picture of the LORD as a capricious, psychopathic tyrant, inconsistently benevolent to His pets. That's a disturbing way to identify the LORD. Why would anyone want to worship a god like that?

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

So in your opinion, when the LORD says that every line is God-Breathed, all are suitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16), what He really means is every chapter reflects a vague idea formulated over time in the minds of men that may or may not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, but these ideas could reflect God's Mind and Will or they could reflect the culture of the people, we can't really know. Is that what you're saying? Because if so, that's low blow to the Holy Ghost, to trivialize Him and His Divine Work like that.



So when God commands man to do a thing, and man does this thing out of love (John 14:15), this is evil? In other words one of these conditions must apply:

• God makes communication between Him and man so vague and unreliable that one cannot know if his thoughts are from the Holy Ghost or his own human consciousness,
• God commands man to do heinous acts out of His own moral ignorance,
• God commands men to do evil things because it reflects His evil intent.

In either case, you paint a picture of the LORD as a capricious, psychopathic tyrant, inconsistently benevolent to His pets. That's a disturbing way to identify the LORD. Why would anyone want to worship a god like that?

The way what is written in Bible changes during the period in which it was written, pretty much how civilisation evolved. They all were inspired by god to write, but I don't really think it is written precisely by the way he said it, because language evolves too and meanings can be missinterpreted. Only those who were "touched by Lord" with these very ideas knew perfectly their meanings - they saw what he wanted and comanded, but putting it into words can be pretty hard. Like when "brother doctor" assumed "curious child" means "anal loving, vicious, god hating kids", while there was not in it mentioned. do you see what I'm trying to say? Men are imperfect, languages are imperfect there is always this little space to do mistake. Even if you do perfect translation of texts, in mind of two separate people it can mean something else. Same goes for writing, try to describe something so perfectly that everyone can see the same picture.

I see these commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

I don't see the 11. You shall kill in my name, it isn't considered murder.
You will never be 100% sure if the idea of doing something comes from you, Him, or devil, because we don't know how he or Jesus actually looks like. The picture of Jesus is from paitings by men again, and in those times it weren't pretty accurate. You can't believe in pictures of Italian painters who depicted the most common picture, because when I studied art they "made paitings in picture of their models with some changes" mostly. Someone can be in your thoughts, can make you feel warm of "good" but remember - even Lucifer was angel once so he knew how His good aura feel, so how can you be sure, he isn't deceiving you so you will do bad while thinking you made good? You can never be sure before you stand before Him when your earthly life ends. Until then human mind can be deceived. I hope it will come to you how I meant it, otherwise it will only strengthen my point of language inaccuracy.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

The way what is written in Bible changes during the period in which it was written, pretty much how civilisation evolved. They all were inspired by god to write, but I don't really think it is written precisely by the way he said it, because language evolves too and meanings can be missinterpreted.

You're suggesting that the presence of the LORD in human history is functionally identical to no presence of the LORD in human history.

Only those who were "touched by Lord" with these very ideas knew perfectly their meanings - they saw what he wanted and comanded, but putting it into words can be pretty hard.

And of course you, apart from every other man, woman, and child on earth, know which ones were "touched by the Lord" and which ones only thought they were. You, apart from every other man, woman, and child on earth, know that from the outside, it is virtually impossible for an individual to know if they were "touched by the Lord" or if they had simply believed they were.

I see these commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

I don't see the 11.

There are more than 600. Read your Bible if you want to know what the Lord truly does command.

You will never be 100% sure if the idea of doing something comes from you, Him, or devil, because we don't know how he or Jesus actually looks like.

So any man, woman, or child on earth can be confused by their own minds, not knowing if their thoughts are inspired by God Above or by their own personal experiences. Except for you. You know. You know your thoughts are right, even as everyone else in the entire history of mankind can't know.

Until then human mind can be deceived.

Except yours, because you have this all figured out. You couldn't possibly be mistaken.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

You're suggesting that the presence of the LORD in human history is functionally identical to no presence of the LORD in human history.



And of course you, apart from every other man, woman, and child on earth, know which ones were "touched by the Lord" and which ones only thought they were. You, apart from every other man, woman, and child on earth, know that from the outside, it is virtually impossible for an individual to know if they were "touched by the Lord" or if they had simply believed they were.



There are more than 600. Read your Bible if you want to know what the Lord truly does command.



So any man, woman, or child on earth can be confused by their own minds, not knowing if their thoughts are inspired by God Above or by their own personal experiences. Except for you. You know. You know your thoughts are right, even as everyone else in the entire history of mankind can't know.



Except yours, because you have this all figured out. You couldn't possibly be mistaken.

Never ever I have said I was, or am never mistaken. Because even I am but a man, which apply exactly to that what I said. As everyone other I am imperfect, so even I do mistakes. I can be mistaken, I never said I can't.

In your very first answer on part of my talk I have just proven language is imperfect, the language of man. I don't deem that civilisation with or without god would be the same. I'm only trying to say that everyone who gave their bit to bible how He showed to them in their mind (I don't think Lord would himself degenerate to speak to them in language of men which can be missinterpreted as shown above) they simply tried to put it in words by their best effort. But they couldn't really make it exactly precise because of imperfection of language. If we humans had the ability to show these perfect images of His to each other I would claim there wouldn't be single non true christian in the word, because all would know precisely what He wants and how He wants us to live. That would be perfect, amazing world.

as for the other one I "pressume" human isn't perfect so he can be mistaken. How can one really tell who talked to him? We can't be 100% sure, never. We can believe (or in other words have faith) we knew who talks to us.

On those other two which both again "pressume" that I think my hypothesy is always true again I will never be 100% sure, because I am but a man. Neither I neither you can be ever 100% sure until after our lives end we stand before Him and he show us Himself. Only He Himself can show me my mistakes in my thought and for it even send me to hell, which I will accept if it will be His decision. But as long as there is interpretations in "language" and not in very thought streamed from one mind to another which will give NO way to mistake any meaning, there can be missinterpretation. I am very sad of this very though that language is imperfect so we can't talk with each other without any missinterpretations which we both assumed in our talk. Trust me I don't deny your Lord can be there and for that I don't believe he will send me to hell, but... no I won't say it could just do other missinterpretations again.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Never ever I have said I was, or am never mistaken. Because even I am but a man, which apply exactly to that what I said. As everyone other I am imperfect, so even I do mistakes. I can be mistaken, I never said I can't.

Then your opinion, that the writers of the Bible could have misinterpreted God's meaning, could be a mistake. In any case, you're suggesting we trust you, an imperfect man prone to mistakes, over the Word of God who is perfect and cannot make mistakes. You do realize what you're saying though, don't you? You're saying that the parts of the Holy Bible that don't conform to YOUR understanding, must be mistaken. They must reflect a miscommunication between God and man. They must reflect this because... you don't agree.

Don't you see how important it is to accept the Holy Word of God as it is written by God Almighty Himself? If you don't, you're assuming you can be the arbiter of what Scriptures really mean to say. In other words, you're taking on the authority of speaking for God. You're saying you know better than the Holy Bible what God means to say.

As soon as you do this, you start to reinterpret parts of the Bible that don't conform with your own opinion, or the opinion of others. Who knows, perhaps you'll go so far as to dismiss those portions of the Bible that don't conform with the scientific community and all their foolish research and God-mocking data. Will you also demand that bats are not birds (Leviticus 11:13-19), that trees can't clap (Isaiah 55:12), that bones cannot dance (Ezekiel 37:1-14), that serpents cannot talk (Genesis 3:4), that sin is not an objective fact (Romans 3:23) just because these claims are all rejected by modern knowledge?

Trust me I don't deny your Lord can be there and for that I don't believe he will send me to hell, but... no I won't say it could just do other missinterpretations again.

Not actively rejecting Him isn't enough to save you from an eternity of torment and suffering, dear. You need to accept Him as the Christ (the Son of God who sacrificed Himself unto His Own Father-and-yet-Self), died and then was no longer dead (Romans 10:9), and then do everything He commands (John 14:15).

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Pretty much wondering

The way what is written in Bible changes during the period in which it was written, pretty much how civilisation evolved. They all were inspired by god to write, but I don't really think it is written precisely by the way he said it, because language evolves too and meanings can be missinterpreted. Only those who were "touched by Lord" with these very ideas knew perfectly their meanings - they saw what he wanted and comanded, but putting it into words can be pretty hard.

How would any of that have been too much of a problem for God, Who is omnipotent (Matthew 19:26), to overcome?

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Then your opinion, that the writers of the Bible could have misinterpreted God's meaning, could be a mistake. In any case, you're suggesting we trust you, an imperfect man prone to mistakes, over the Word of God who is perfect and cannot make mistakes. You do realize what you're saying though, don't you? You're saying that the parts of the Holy Bible that don't conform to YOUR understanding, must be mistaken. They must reflect a miscommunication between God and man. They must reflect this because... you don't agree.

Don't you see how important it is to accept the Holy Word of God as it is written by God Almighty Himself? If you don't, you're assuming you can be the arbiter of what Scriptures really mean to say. In other words, you're taking on the authority of speaking for God. You're saying you know better than the Holy Bible what God means to say.

As soon as you do this, you start to reinterpret parts of the Bible that don't conform with your own opinion, or the opinion of others. Who knows, perhaps you'll go so far as to dismiss those portions of the Bible that don't conform with the scientific community and all their foolish research and God-mocking data. Will you also demand that bats are not birds (Leviticus 11:13-19), that trees can't clap (Isaiah 55:12), that bones cannot dance (Ezekiel 37:1-14), that serpents cannot talk (Genesis 3:4), that sin is not an objective fact (Romans 3:23) just because these claims are all rejected by modern knowledge?



Not actively rejecting Him isn't enough to save you from an eternity of torment and suffering, dear. You need to accept Him as the Christ (the Son of God who sacrificed Himself unto His Own Father-and-yet-Self), died and then was no longer dead (Romans 10:9), and then do everything He commands (John 14:15).

Okay again missinterpretation because of "language of men" more and more proving my point. I don't say "trust me, because I said" as you assume. I say "think about it and maybe you will see something off, but you can see there is nothing off too".
I think that God as perfect being wouldn't ever write or speak in "language of men" because through our conversation you can see we both say something, but we can't truly understand what the other mean precisely. that is reasonable isn't it?
Bible couldn't be written by Him Himself, because language is imperfect so it gives place for missinterpretations. Why would He write in something which cannot be interpreted by everyone always the same way? Try to think about it. That made me think for myself that it was written by men how He showed them. it makes sense. Although He is Omnipotent, he can't lead us by hand our whole life, so He wouldn't project His will to every single human being in universe, that is what I myself think. He gave us freedom of choice, that's why He showed His will to chosen few and showed them to try to write it as best as they can. But any single human can't for sure take all His knowledge and His will the way he intended so they have written it as precise as they could.
Because of imperfection of english (or any other language) you assumed that I think that I know the best of what He thinks, that is again wrong. I simply think aloud and try to reach you by words I know. Because blind faith is sometimes worse than no faith. Please don't assume I think you are not True Christian in my next sentence. There is possibility that bible wasn't written in His will and then you could believe is something He didn't wanted. End of this heretical sentence, which is only a hypothesis (which can be anytime proven wrong by facts and I hope one day it will be proven 100% false by your God, trust me on that).
I am not really saying that when I don't agree to parts of bible it means it must be wrong. I always told you I can be the one who is wrong and I hope one day I will be proven that.
As for your last answer, again missinterpretation. I will again try to rephrase that in more accurate (hopefuly) way -
Trust me I don't deny your Lord can be there and for that I don't believe he will send me to hell
Is meant as I don't deny your Lord can be there. Because I don't deny it, then I don't deny either He can send me to hell for not believing in him one day.
See again? I phrases something in different way though in my mind it is the same. That again make me think he would never himself write the bible because it can be interpreted in many ways by many humans. You can see it even in how many different churches christians are. Do you see my point? the KJV bible (hopefuly i didn't make a typo) is made from translation, thus even with the effort of the best translators on this world who can truly say there isn't single word with two meanings for example? When there is translation, there is always a slight difference in meanings. If God Himself handed to you this bible I think there would be some things written other way. But it is only my idea again. Hopefuly you understood me little better this time again , because I can see you are trying your best too. It would be rude to never take your view into consideration and I always try to think about what you said and before I write again try to say it again and better after considering what you said and how you enligthened me by your words a little each time.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

How would any of that have been too much of a problem for God, Who is omnipotent (Matthew 19:26), to overcome?

I tried to explain that in the post above this i write now Pastor Peters. I thank you for your time reading it. It is always only my thought and can be wrong (hopefuly for your church), but I think even slightly I make a point there. But again I can be mistaken and I will accept His punishment if I am wrong when the time comes. Hopefuly it makes your mind lighter Pastor. Or to rephrase it - hopefully it makes your day little better knowing I am willing to accept His judge if I made the mistake. Somehow again I'm trying to make my point with this that our language "the language of men" is imperfect and it is good to consider if Holy book written in the imperfect language can't have mistakes. I try to make points, yet not say that you are worshiping false god. Only to use the freedom of will He gave to us, it isn't much to ask, isn't it?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Do you see my point? the KJV bible (hopefuly i didn't make a typo) is made from translation, thus even with the effort of the best translators on this world who can truly say there isn't single word with two meanings for example? When there is translation, there is always a slight difference in meanings.

What is your source of fact for knowing that God can do everything except figure out how to preserve His Word accurately?

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

What is your source of fact for knowing that God can do everything except figure out how to preserve His Word accurately?

I thought you read it throughtly what I written to you. so I will post those specifict sentences again:
Although He is Omnipotent, he can't lead us by hand our whole life, so He wouldn't project His will to every single human being in universe, that is what I myself think. He gave us freedom of choice, that's why He showed His will to chosen few and showed them to try to write it as best as they can. But any single human can't for sure take all His knowledge and His will the way he intended so they have written it as precise as they could.

Look at how many versions of His Word are there. and all are, even KJV version, translations. And in every single one there are differences (or in most, I can never tell for sure there aren't two same translations from different translators). That can show there is some inaccuracy, because to get to His word in its most accurate way you would have to read not KJV version but the oldest, first original, the very First Holy Bible. The one which didn't gone through translations and reimpretations. So maybe there still in some form exist this very first one, which COULD be even in the "language of men" (which I think is mostly immposible) accurate. but as pastor Peters said somewhere in this forum, KJV is translation of Hebrew texts. And because hebrew and english doesn't have the very same grammar and vocabulary some things always be little off. Have I enligthened you a little by this again Marry about my thoughts?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

I thought you read it throughtly what I written to you. so I will post those specifict sentences again:
Although He is Omnipotent, he can't lead us by hand our whole life, so He wouldn't project His will to every single human being in universe, that is what I myself think. He gave us freedom of choice, that's why He showed His will to chosen few and showed them to try to write it as best as they can. But any single human can't for sure take all His knowledge and His will the way he intended so they have written it as precise as they could.

I read it dear, I'm asking a follow up question. What is your source of information for the argument that God wouldn't project His will onto those whom He chooses? If your source is your own mind, which you've identified as being fallible and therefore unreliable, then why do you trust it at all?

What you are suggesting goes directly against what God Himself tells us. God tells Abraham that perfection is achievable (Genesis 17:1). The Bible tells us True Christians are not confused or mistaken (1 John 5:18). In many of the Epistles, the authors tell us that we are perfect and can be unblameable in holiness, free from sin and a new creation as our Master Who is in Heaven wants us to be (2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:22-24, 26; etc).

You can read more from our esteemed Pastor's sermon: True Christians are Perfect!

Have I enligthened you a little by this again Marry about my thoughts?

No. You simply repeat yourself. You maintain that these things confuse you, you cannot know, therefore you trust your imagination and personal experience to relay to you the understanding of the world around you rather than the evidence that exists - evidence you are unqualified to critically analyze or accurately consider.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

I read it dear, I'm asking a follow up question. What is your source of information for the argument that God wouldn't project His will onto those whom He chooses? If your source is your own mind, which you've identified as being fallible and therefore unreliable, then why do you trust it at all?

What you are suggesting goes directly against what God Himself tells us. God tells Abraham that perfection is achievable (Genesis 17:1). The Bible tells us True Christians are not confused or mistaken (1 John 5:18). In many of the Epistles, the authors tell us that we are perfect and can be unblameable in holiness, free from sin and a new creation as our Master Who is in Heaven wants us to be (2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:22-24, 26; etc).

You can read more from our esteemed Pastor's sermon: True Christians are Perfect!



No. You simply repeat yourself. You maintain that these things confuse you, you cannot know, therefore you trust your imagination and personal experience to relay to you the understanding of the world around you rather than the evidence that exists - evidence you are unqualified to critically analyze or accurately consider.

I mostly argue about the following the Word which is written in not the very first original Bible which due to translation can and most likely has flaws. Because people here mostly what I saw go only by what is written in KJV Bible, they don't say always "as He showed me" but "it is written here". You always argument with what is written in the very book we argue about. I want to see those verses from the very first original, not from the translation. I want to hear the translator of the very first text (which even can be something before the Hebrew texts) to tell me precisely without mistakes what is written there. But there isn't way sadly to 100% translate something without little changes unto other language.
I want to question thee onto something: what if God projected those very ideas into my head and have spoken through me? It can be true, it can be false. How would we know? Because His ways are mysterious, I heard it here a few times. This is in some sense the same question as you asked me. And the answer is same for both: Before we stand before Him, we will never truly know.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

And another thing -
1 John 5:18:
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

For not sounding dumb to you I re-read it many times, even passage before and after it. Never is there any mention of being perfect when you are True Christian are not confused or mistaken, it simply sais those who are born of God (christians) don't sin and that they know they are right that Jesus and God are real. No mentioning of being never mistaken, because be wrong isn't sin as far as I know.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Although He is Omnipotent, he can't lead us by hand our whole life, so He wouldn't project His will to every single human being in universe, that is what I myself think. He gave us freedom of choice, that's why He showed His will to chosen few and showed them to try to write it as best as they can.

So what you are saying is that even though God, being omnipotent, could have perfectly preserved His words, He chose not to do so because He didn't want to lead us by the hand our whole lives. Instead, He reneged on His promise to preserve His words (Psalm 12:6-7, Isaiah 40:8, Matthew 24:35) and gave us freedom of choice while simultaneously depriving us of the ability to make an informed choice. He thus leaves us to guess at the correct way to avoid eternal damnation.

Is that really what you think of the Lord most high? Such a deity would be a monster, completely undeserving of worship.