Pretty much wondering

[John the Wolf]

Well hello there I'm not your typicall christian, in fact I am ... well can't say atheist either ... so I would go with someone who doesn't really get the point of your holy book nowadays called bible (or if you prefer the Word of God). Because of my studies I read it many times (same goes for Quran, teachings of Siddhartha Guatama a.k.a. Buddha, Norse, Greek mythology etc.).
For past few days I read many threads here and couldn't be more amazed by logic of some members and their statements (mostly by the 'Stud' Ezekiel, which I don't know why would somebody gives himself such title, but I'm not to judge) The concept is almost always the same - atheists are rapists and homosexuals and murderers, papists are pedophiles, you aren't racist or don't discriminate other nationalities, but I saw using Scottish, Englishmen or French as an insult (I never really expected those words to be rude, but they somehow managed to. I was once called Banana so pretty any word can go if you want I guess).
I really thought religion was to help people not only in times of need, but in everyday life. But I saw here justifying murder if someone didn't believe in what you believe, domestical assault if wife didn't do exactly what husband wanted or when she thought for herself too much, condeeming (hopefully I wrote it right, english is my 4th language) pretty much anyone (christians are no exception) to hell etc. This seems in eyes of someone like me pretty much that religion is here to even worsen our lives on this round planet Earth.
For the point why I'm not atheist or believer. In the past I clinicaly died. In the time they tried to bring me back to world of the living I stood in this plain of darkness and shadow and there was someone. Because you would probably deem me heretic or follower of satan if I continued on this, I will rather stop there.
Well hope this introduction is sufficient to start some debate, if you have time and nerve to talk to me.

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: Pretty much wondering

I really thought religion was to help people not only in times of need, but in everyday life. But I saw here justifying murder if someone didn't believe in what you believe, domestical assault if...

Friend, I can see that you are not familiar with the Bible. Jesus is quite clear about this matter, anyone who does not follow Him, will end up in hell. So you see, it would be most horrible lie and really cruel, to let people believe that Jesus is all about love. No, He loves only those who follow Him.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Jim Farmer]

Re: Pretty much wondering

But I saw here justifying murder if someone didn't believe in what you believe, domestical assault if wife didn't do exactly what husband wanted or when she thought for herself too much, condeeming (hopefully I wrote it right, english is my 4th language) pretty much anyone (christians are no exception) to hell etc. This seems in eyes of someone like me pretty much that religion is here to even worsen our lives on this round planet Earth.

John, all these things which may appear to you to be horrific, are merely we here saying what God tells us in His Book. You say you have read the Bible, so you should know this.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Friend, I can see that you are not familiar with the Bible. Jesus is quite clear about this matter, anyone who does not follow Him, will end up in hell. So you see, it would be most horrible lie and really cruel, to let people believe that Jesus is all about love. No, He loves only those who follow Him.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He demands your faith but how can you have faith in something you know? Then there is only knowledge, you cannot have faith in it when you know. Because well pretty easily to say faith is supposed to be blind - you have to not know. Does it mean that because I saw and heard his voice I cannot go to heaven?
P.S.: I am familiar with bible BUT my memory is not flawless as no one has flawless memory (for the sake of your god I will say except Lord), thus I don't recall every single verse of it.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: Pretty much wondering

He demands your faith but how can you have faith in something you know? Then there is only knowledge, you cannot have faith in it when you know. Because well pretty easily to say faith is supposed to be blind - you have to not know. Does it mean that because I saw and heard his voice I cannot go to heaven?
P.S.: I am familiar with bible BUT my memory is not flawless as no one has flawless memory (for the sake of your god I will say except Lord), thus I don't recall every single verse of it.

Faith is the acceptance in things unseen.

I have never seen, felt or heard any evidence at all to beleive in the Lord Jesus Christ. I could claim the Bible is infact not one cohesive missive to mankind about the wishes of our creator. I could point to the fact that aside from a vague reference by Tacticus there is scant evidence for the existance of a historical Jesus. I could point out who the Genesis 1 and 2 seem to contradict each other (they don't).

All these things would make a man of lesser faith doubt the existance of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as the self created creator of All things.

That is faith. In spite of all the evidence to the contrary I beleive what the Bible says, word for word.

That is Christianity.

YIC

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

John, all these things which may appear to you to be horrific, are merely we here saying what God tells us in His Book. You say you have read the Bible, so you should know this.

As I told before I don't remember every verse in bible. Bible teaches us to be kind too. And I personaly think Jesus wouldn't sacrifice himself so man can kill man and by it against "You shall not kill" nevertheless of that person being catholic, baptist, muslim, budhist, atheist or other. Because life is sacred in the eyes of your Lord, every single one, because every single person can be redeemed by his actions and thus be "clean" in His eyes. Am I wrong?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

As I told before I don't remember every verse in bible. Bible teaches us to be kind too. And I personaly think Jesus wouldn't sacrifice himself so man can kill man and by it against "You shall not kill" nevertheless of that person being catholic, baptist, muslim, budhist, atheist or other. Because life is sacred in the eyes of your Lord, every single one, because every single person can be redeemed by his actions and thus be "clean" in His eyes. Am I wrong?

Yes.



You see, the Bible teaches us how to go to Heaven. It teaches us what we must do to avoid the pitfalls of eternal damnation which is our default fate (John 3:18,) thanks to Eve (1 Timothy 2:14). In short, we must believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, Redeemer of Repentant Sinners; we must return the gift of Christ's temporary sacrifice with unconditional love and unhesitating obedience (John 14:15); we must be holy (1 Peter 1:16); and finally, we must baptize as many people as we can (Matthew 28:16-20) so they too know their God-given duty (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

Being "kind" depends on your perspective. Is it kind to prevent one's eternal torment? If so, then letting people know they are in grave danger of being punished by God for ever and ever is a kind thing (John 7:24). Is it kind to respect the wishes of the One who temporarily died for you? If so, then respecting His wishes is kind (2 Corinthians 6:17).

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Pretty much wondering

And I personaly think Jesus wouldn't sacrifice himself so man can kill man and by it against "You shall not kill" nevertheless of that person being catholic, baptist, muslim, budhist, atheist or other.

Dear friend:

You are taking a verse out of context. Yes, the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," but it also includes several commandments to kill people. You need to read, understand, and follow all of it. You also need to read it as it is, not as liberal false Christians have spent the past few centuries rewriting it to present God as a cosmic huggy-bear.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Yes.



You see, the Bible teaches us how to go to Heaven. It teaches us what we must do to avoid the pitfalls of eternal damnation which is our default fate (John 3:18,) thanks to Eve (1 Timothy 2:14). In short, we must believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, Redeemer of Repentant Sinners; we must return the gift of Christ's temporary sacrifice with unconditional love and unhesitating obedience (John 14:15); we must be holy (1 Peter 1:16); and finally, we must baptize as many people as we can (Matthew 28:16-20) so they too know their God-given duty (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

Being "kind" depends on your perspective. Is it kind to prevent one's eternal torment? If so, then letting people know they are in grave danger of being punished by God for ever and ever is a kind thing (John 7:24). Is it kind to respect the wishes of the One who temporarily died for you? If so, then respecting His wishes is kind (2 Corinthians 6:17).

So killing and thus going directly against His will ("Thou shall not kill") is right if someone isn't baptist? It doesn't really specify who you shouldn't kill, can't be missinterpreted as neighbour with its 3 meanings.
And I sometimes doubt the true meaning of his "temporary" sacrifice, because if it isn't the permanent sacrifice, where is the meaning? Don't take me wrongly please, I mean he knew he is son of God and he will go to heaven because he did nothing wrong in his entire life (How could he right?). This is in the eyes of someone as myself just a wizard trick (please don't take it literaly this, I'm just trying to say it simple so there wouldn't be any missinterpretations) to manifest him being not just a mortal man and the power of his Father. Who wouldn't sacrifice himself for humanity, knowing he will rise again?

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Faith is the acceptance in things unseen.

I have never seen, felt or heard any evidence at all to beleive in the Lord Jesus Christ. I could claim the Bible is infact not one cohesive missive to mankind about the wishes of our creator. I could point to the fact that aside from a vague reference by Tacticus there is scant evidence for the existance of a historical Jesus. I could point out who the Genesis 1 and 2 seem to contradict each other (they don't).

All these things would make a man of lesser faith doubt the existance of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as the self created creator of All things.

That is faith. In spite of all the evidence to the contrary I beleive what the Bible says, word for word.

That is Christianity.

What a very beautiful testimony of the essential Truth, Brother. Faith is God's gift to us, and we are blessed by it. Thank you for sharing your insights.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Yours in Faith,
Joanna

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: Pretty much wondering

So killing and thus going directly against His will ("Thou shall not kill") is right if someone isn't baptist?

Again, you are taking things out of contexts. If you would have actually read the Bible, you would know who we are not allowed to kill.

Also, if you had read the Bible you would know that God does not only condone of killing heathens, sometimes He demands it.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Again, you are taking things out of contexts. If you would have actually read the Bible, you would know who we are not allowed to kill.

Also, if you had read the Bible you would know that God does not only condone of killing heathens, sometimes He demands it.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

An excellent observation, Brother.

God was so angry with those no good Amaleks that He specifically called out those infants and suckling babes as sinner and worthy of slaying.

God will not tolerate sin and His wrath is Glorious to behold.

YIC

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

Again, you are taking things out of contexts. If you would have actually read the Bible, you would know who we are not allowed to kill.

Also, if you had read the Bible you would know that God does not only condone of killing heathens, sometimes He demands it.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I think it was plain obvious it is one of ten commandments, they are absolute. Life as whole is sacred and no man have right to kill. In that instance you stated it was HIS direct command to Amalek. Can you say because he said to him this, you are allowed to do the same?
P.S.: I read the bible BUT as I stated so many times and you do look like you refuse to keep it in your memory (which proves my statement that noone have flawless memory) noone can remember everything. There are many things I have to do and I can't just sit all day and read bible.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Pretty much wondering

So killing and thus going directly against His will ("Thou shall not kill") is right if someone isn't baptist?

No. Killing is not going directly against God's Will if it is His Will to inflict capital punishment. God loves us and wants us to be happy. He has given us His Holy Word to know precisel how to kill annoying people - Bible Style.

And I sometimes doubt the true meaning of his "temporary" sacrifice, because if it isn't the permanent sacrifice, where is the meaning? Don't take me wrongly please, I mean he knew he is son of God and he will go to heaven because he did nothing wrong in his entire life (How could he right?). This is in the eyes of someone as myself just a wizard trick (please don't take it literaly this, I'm just trying to say it simple so there wouldn't be any missinterpretations) to manifest him being not just a mortal man and the power of his Father. Who wouldn't sacrifice himself for humanity, knowing he will rise again?

Of course you don't understand it. These things are foolishness to the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 1:18). Look son, God could have used His omnipotent powers to forgive mankind, or even create a law of physics in which man has free will and yet be incapable of sinning and offending Him in the first place, but instead He chose to impregnate a young virgin to give birth to Himself for the very sake of sacrificing Himself to Himself to appease His Divine Wrath, thereby allowing us to be spared the Hell He created because He knew what Adam and Eve would do. Just because He decided to communicate this Divine and Mysteriously Perfect Plan through a series of accounts penned decades later without all the convenient pieces of evidence strewn around first century Israel, confirmed only by the personal experience of the Righteous doesn't mean it's not a Perfect Sacrifice worthy of our worship. I mean, who do you think you are to think that just because you think you can come up with a plan that sounds logical by your 21st century western civilization standards, that you can question God's logic? His ways are not our ways. We'll never be able to figure Him out (Isaiah 55:8-9). The most we can do is trust Him. He knows what's best.

[John the Wolf]

Re: Pretty much wondering

No. Killing is not going directly against God's Will if it is His Will to inflict capital punishment. God loves us and wants us to be happy. He has given us His Holy Word to know precisel how to kill annoying people - Bible Style.



Of course you don't understand it. These things are foolishness to the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 1:18). Look son, God could have used His omnipotent powers to forgive mankind, or even create a law of physics in which man has free will and yet be incapable of sinning and offending Him in the first place, but instead He chose to impregnate a young virgin to give birth to Himself for the very sake of sacrificing Himself to Himself to appease His Divine Wrath, thereby allowing us to be spared the Hell He created because He knew what Adam and Eve would do. Just because He decided to communicate this Divine and Mysteriously Perfect Plan through a series of accounts penned decades later without all the convenient pieces of evidence strewn around first century Israel, confirmed only by the personal experience of the Righteous doesn't mean it's not a Perfect Sacrifice worthy of our worship. I mean, who do you think you are to think that just because you think you can come up with a plan that sounds logical by your 21st century western civilization standards, that you can question God's logic? His ways are not our ways. We'll never be able to figure Him out (Isaiah 55:8-9). The most we can do is trust Him. He knows what's best.

This topic you have brought simply say you can kill me but I can't kill you because in some point God said about certain group of people he will punish them all. note the CERTAIN GROUP not all like them. I do not deem worthy a god who kills children because they want to know (e.g. are curious by that topic). Once you wanted to know too, does it mean therefore you are too the one who can be smiten?