[GanduHindu]

Perhaps I accidentally put toadstools (Sanskrit calls them "soma" I believe) in my soup and am experiencing time backwards. Happily there's a litmus test for that and I'll apply it now.

If you've got beef against Sanskrit (no pun intended), this is certainly not the proper forum for me to clarify your doubts. Sanskrit is not at all important to your life—obviously, my discussing Sanskrit in any thread is making you unhappy for some reason or another. And I don't need to know.

I can simply accept that you don't like that language and remain silent on that topic. Consider this one a Christmas gift from me.

Blue font text. Too long; didn't read

You misunderstand my intention. I am not your enemy. If you feel any hatred towards me because of something I said, you have every right to do so. It's not my job to change anyone's mind.

Let me tell you; I'm not here to debate. Winning a debate with you or anyone else does not give me any pleasure. Far from it—in Asian cultures including India, we have the concept of 'saving face.' We absolutely hate it if someone feels bad because of our words or actions. Since you've traveled to India, you must be aware of that concept.

Unfortunately, you're a woman. According to the Indian book, Manu Smriti, which is not really a religious book for Hindus, more like a code of conduct manual, debating with women is prohibited in Hinduism as they're intellectual and moral inferiors (now please don't say I'm implying that for you. You might be a strong exception among women, but we're really prohibited to have any sort of conversation with unrelated women.

On this forum, I would only like to discuss Biblical stuff with Christian gentlemen, and clarify MY doubts on Christianity with them. That's what I came here for. I have zero desire to discuss Hinduism here.

Thank you

[MitzaLizalor]

Perhaps I accidentally put toadstools (Sanskrit calls them "soma" I believe) in my soup and am experiencing time backwards. Happily there's a litmus test for that and I'll apply it now. The so-called arrow of time, operating between the dual horizons of the very big & the very small, requires that events do not occur before their cause. Wise men (and idiots for that matter) are larger than quarks yet somehow strangely smaller than the observable universe, being comprised of the one yet contained within the other.

Original post from Pastor Ezekiel

Reliable reportage: proposals under discussion among maniacs

Thoughtful ON TOPIC post: the binding of Santa Claus

Drivel about calendars and cowboy fantasies

Mr uHindu's first post (wants to betray someone) + reply

uHindu 2 (Caspar & the three wise men) + reply (avoid Romish sources)

uHindu 3: discusses "Three Magi" country of origin + reply

Insightful comment regarding camels

uHindu 4 I hadn't even replied before you decided I was wrong.

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BLUE SECTION

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The arrow of time is pointing down the page. The posts uHindu 1, 2, 3 & 4 are there in sequence with responses. This is the response to uHindu 4. And without invoking theories of relativity, relative to his other posts, everything is consistent. How, exactly, if one faces East to look at a star and walks towards it, one should arrive 3,000 miles to the West from one's starting point—I'm running with the Kerala hypothesis—escapes me. Travel by camel or on foot going backwards looking East to get to Jerusalem is very consistent with thinking my reply to uHindu 3 was written before that post was made.

In fact there's 5 hours between the posts, highlighted with replies in blue, all in accordance with the arrow of time. Similarly, if I see a star in the East and walk towards it and arrive in Jerusalem, although my starting point is irrelevant to Matthew's account clearly it isn't in Burma. For reference, I am aware that the Malay Peninsular and Bengali coastline, including Chittagong and other inland parts, have traditionally been part of India ("Farther India" on certain old maps without the modern differentiations) but of course, unless Indian camels are submariners, the route from Kerala passes through Goa. Perhaps an explanation for the confusion lies there?

[Johny Joe Hold]

Cows, mayor. Cows. How many times do I have to tell you we Hindus prefer cows (and bullocks) over other animals.

But I can see they couldn't have lasted longer in the Israel desert. So, the Indian Magus would have traded his cattle for a sturdy Arabian camel.

HitotheHindu--It makes sense the Hindus reverence of cows has its limits. I'm pleased you are not one of those atheists who argues with us about camels. The Bible states clearly that Abraham owned lots of camels. Smart a$$ atheists claim this cannot be true because camels were domesticated after the time of Abraham. That is heresy. God knows if he provided Abraham with camels or if he did not. God wrote in the Bible he had camels. End of story,

[GanduHindu]

Thank you, Sister Miza, for bringing good information to this "debate."

Oh Mayor my friend.

It's called a "DISCUSSION."

You have inadvertently provided the Hindus with a nifty marketing slogan, "Join the Hindu religion. Our camels walk backwards."

Cows, mayor. Cows. How many times do I have to tell you we Hindus prefer cows (and bullocks) over other animals.

But I can see they couldn't have lasted longer in the Israel desert. So, the Indian Magus would have traded his cattle for a sturdy Arabian camel.

Now Indians and cows have a complicated bond. I don't expect you to understand it. But please respect it as I'm respecting the Bible here.

[GanduHindu]

Thank you for an interesting, if ill-informed, reply.

That's a bit of a preconceived notion, don't you think? I hadn't even replied before you decided I was wrong. Anyway, it's a waste of the limited time God has given us all to argue semantics.

The first problem concerns what "The East" signifies. The Star was in the east when they saw it, as you've quoted. But where were the wise men? Mali for instance is on the east coast of the Atlantic ocean and was awash with gold. Seafaring types may well describe such landlubbers as "from the east" – of where they plied their trade on a north/south route from Cornwall to the Congo River; even Libya would be east from Carthage.

I don't understand how Cornwall, the Congo River, Carthage, or Libya fit into your argument. Each of these locations is thousands of miles from Jerusalem. In fact, India is relatively closer by a few dozen miles (ancient India included the present-day western territories of Pakistan). We believe that, for the sake of God, we will reclaim that territory (we don't recognize it as a country in its own right), show them the error of Islam, and encourage them to return to the Hindu fold. Anyway, I don't want to digress on that one.

Mali, I'll get to that in a while.

Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them[COLOR=#d35400], till it came and stood over where the young child was.[The Star was in the east and they followed it to Jerusalem: are you suggesting they went the whole way backwards? Or did they see The Star when they were in the east? In which case The Star would need to be in the west. It was of course mobile, so other combinations are possible./COLOR]

That's a good one, but I'm still not impressed. Clearly, you've never closely examined the night sky, with or without a telescope. However, you correctly mentioned that the course of the sky could have been mobile.

Back in 1 BC or 1 AD, the magnetic compass had already been invented by the Han Chinese. However, it wasn't a perfect design and wasn't truly perfected until the 11th century Song dynasty. The chances of a navigation error were as high as 20 percent, meaning these instruments were unreliable at best and dangerous at worst. Imagine trying to meet Jesus in Bethlehem and ending up somewhere near Mecca, where Muhammad's ancestors were worshipping the Black Stone, just as Moslems do today.

Stargazing was the only way to navigate from Point A to Point B.

As for Matthew 2:9, now of course, you would know that there's only one star that appears fixed at a point in the sky as it is aligned with the Earth's rotational axis at the North Pole. The Pole star, or the North star.

Every other star's position changes depending on the observer's reference point (the Magi in this case). East depends on the original direction and the time of day. Interestingly, the North Star is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, which I've always found curious. If you find an indirect reference, let me know. The north star was well known to most ancient navigators. However, there's mention of astronomy in Job 38:31-32, indicating that the ancient Heebs were well aware of celestial mapping. So they definitely knew it all about the North star.

But let's just focus on another verse in the second chapter of Matthew, Matthew 2:7

Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

Enquired of them obviously means having a face-to-face conversation. Obviously, there were no cellphones back then. Did Herod use some sort of ancient pigeon service to call upon the wise men? Possible, but very unlikely.

The most logical deduction is that the wise men, who were wealthy foreigners, had a face-to-face audience with King Herod. After traveling on camels for days, they would have been very tired. Being wealthy, they could afford to rest at the King's palace by buying their way in. Thus, the three Wise men likely spent quite a bit of time with King Herod before learning about Jesus's upcoming birth.

Now, where exactly was King Herod's palace? Obviously in his capital city. But as King, Herod fancied having multiple capitals: Jerusalem, Caesarea Maritima, and Herodium.

For argument's sake, let's assume that Herod received the Magi at his capital in Caesarea, which is a port near the Mediterranean Sea. Bethlehem is to the southeast from there. So, it's possible the Magi looked at the eastern sky (not clear on the time of day) and decided to follow its path.

Let me clarify again that 'east' in the night sky is not a well-defined navigation point. If you were an astronomy student, you'd fail for writing that in your paper, even in an ancient class. The only fixed point is the North Star, and if they were wise men, they wouldn't be so foolish as to head blindly in that direction. So your logical argument about Matthew 2:9 is moot. or irrelevant to our discussion.

Perhaps they decided that mentioning the North Star was not important. Israel is a small country, tinier than Vermont or Mizoram in India. You could just walk with your camel and end up near Bethlehem with a few educated guesses.

Maybe the light of Jesus was so luminous that they couldn't have lost their way. [See, Christians - I'm taking YOUR side here on matters of faith. I may be a devout Hindu but don't anyone ever accuse me of insulting the Bible or whatever..]

What is not possible, however, is for islamic Arabs to be involved.There were no moslems in Arabia at that time.

Of course, Sistah. I was joking. But my point is still valid, and those Arabs were never the brightest bulbs. The chances that there may have been a Magus among them are very slim. Muhammad's ancestors were living in Arabia, worshiping that black stone in Mecca.

Most 7th century Islamic practices can be traced to ancient Arab moon-worshiping rituals. It's not relevant to our current discussion. So, please laugh at my joke and let's move on.

A second question arose, concerning Jesus as follows ~You'd answered that already: Mary could not have afforded to travel there.

Sure, Mary couldn't have traveled here. But, it would have been nice if Jesus had chosen a different womb for his earthly reincarnation.

You see, the western parts of India saw a lot of mixing of cultures. There were Greeks, Scythians, Persians, and even a few Hebrews. There has been a continuous Jewish presence in the state of Kerala, India, since the time the tribes were kicked out of Egypt by Pharaoh for being welfare stealers.

Ancient Indians were aware of the Jews. We may not have understood them very well (that's why the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita don't mention them at all), but we liked the fact that they mostly kept to themselves. They loved money as much as we did. In fact, India is the only country in the world with no record of anti-Semitism. That concept has never existed here. The Jews, as limited as their numbers were, were free to live and do as they pleased. Indians wouldn't bother them.

I wonder why Jesus didn't see that safety advantage and choose a different Jewess's womb. Of course, he definitely had different plans. All I said was it would have been nice for us to host him.

That's because Persian is older and Sanskrit is a later development.

I already covered that in my discussion with you on another thread. Sanskrit is the most civilized language ever. The Rig Veda, the world's oldest continuous religious text, is in Sanskrit. Even the gods prefer to communicate in Sanskrit. Nothing beats Sanskrit.

Proto-Indo-European is not a real language—it's an artificial construct like Klingon from the Star Trek Universe.

Persian is old, but it's the second oldest thing after Sanskrit. We Indians have always beaten the Iranians in every competition. Their nation has always been second fiddle to ours throughout history. End of story.

Other details are unimportant; we know this because if they were God would have included them in The Bible, much as He told us about the origin of sin—which otherwise we may not have known—and how to get rid of it. But first, Jesus had to be born, the best gift ever.

Of course. Jesus was/is still amazing, but he owes us Hindus some money. And then all will be good.

[Johny Joe Hold]

Thank you for an interesting, if ill-informed, reply. The first problem concerns what "The East" signifies.

The Star was in the east and they followed it to Jerusalem: are you suggesting they went the whole way backwards? Or did they see The Star when they were in the east? In which case The Star would need to be in the west.

Thank you, Sister Miza, for bringing good information to this "debate." You have inadvertently provided the Hindus with a nifty marketing slogan, "Join the Hindu religion. Our camels walk backwards."

[MitzaLizalor]

Thank you for an interesting, if ill-informed, reply. The first problem concerns what "The East" signifies. The Star was in the east when they saw it, as you've quoted. But where were the wise men? Mali for instance is on the east coast of the Atlantic ocean and was awash with gold. Seafaring types may well describe such landlubbers as "from the east" – of where they plied their trade on a north/south route from Cornwall to the Congo River; even Libya would be east from Carthage.

Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

The Star was in the east and they followed it to Jerusalem: are you suggesting they went the whole way backwards? Or did they see The Star when they were in the east? In which case The Star would need to be in the west. It was of course mobile, so other combinations are possible.

What is not possible, however, is for islamic Arabs to be involved.

Where would these easterners come from? The Moslems of Arabia are anything but wise. They reproduce with their siblings and the birth defects are extraordinary.

There were no moslems in Arabia at that time. A second question arose, concerning Jesus as follows ~

Only Jesus can tell why he didn't choose a cow stable in my country. I would have loved that.

You'd answered that already: Mary could not have afforded to travel there.

I'm not an expert in Persian but their language is not as advanced as ours.

That's because Persian is older and Sanskrit is a later development. Other details are unimportant; we know this because if they were God would have included them in The Bible, much as He told us about the origin of sin—which otherwise we may not have known—and how to get rid of it. But first, Jesus had to be born, the best gift ever.

[GanduHindu]

In your rather dubious source, the supposed etymology of "Caspar" derives from, rather than informs, his gift-bringing. Anyway, the main problem is: How would Mary (or Joseph) travel to India if they were broke hobos?

An additional concern is the source's going on about Romish heretics, none of whom—as you may be aware—have any connection with Christianity. Unless you want to consider papism a Godly creed: that would be difficult since in every matter catholicism is diametrically opposed to anything taught by Jesus. That doesn't require you to agree with either Christ or Rome BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT ROME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY regardless of what they claim. It's as easy as एकं द्वौ त्रयः at least for those holding that Christianity aligns with any teaching of Christ, otherwise one may conclude that Ganseh is more akin to Jesus than a pope. (As it happens, I already do think that.)

Prayerfully.

Oh dearest Sistah

I never said Jesus was born anywhere but where he was, in Bethlehem. I just wished a personal desire that perhaps it would have been better for all humanity had he been born in India. Only Jesus can tell why he didn't choose a cow stable in my country. I would have loved that.

I know the modern-day American education system is seriously deficient (that's why your country hijacks and lures away all our IIT engineers with the promise of more money. Their skills could have been used to make India a wealthier place. You don't even spare our highly qualified doctors who run away to America at the first opportunity leaving our clinics understaffed.

We Indians are greedy and you Americans continue to exploit our biggest weakness). Still I had expected you'd do some research a bit on this thing first.

Anyway, does Matthew 2:1 ring a bell 🔔? It clearly mentions three wise men from the east of Jerusalem without specifying their nationality..

Where would these easterners come from? The Moslems of Arabia are anything but wise. They reproduce with their siblings and the birth defects are extraordinary.

Around the year 1 AD, you'd have only two logical choices as regards to the east of Jerusalem, Persia (including Babylon) and India. Everything else was barren land.

The Hebrew word for "treasure" closely matches the one in Sanskrit. I'm not an expert in Persian but their language is not as advanced as ours.

Plus, India was wealthier, the source of all spices, gold, diamonds and what not. It was the United States of America of that time.

Maybe we can argue that Caspar came from China, another wealthy country. But I see that possibility as far-fetched.

As cunning as the Chinese are, they're atheists and communists. They don't love God the way Indians do.

Even without the so-called dubious source (have you checked the scholarly references at the bottom of that page?), I'm firmly convinced this Gold-bearing Magi was a Hindu Brahmin who came all the way from India. It's called INFERENTIAL REASONING.

Back in Jesus's time, India's currency was pegged to the gold standard. Not the fiat currency imposed on us more recently by ungodly Britishers.

India's Hindu religion had strict prohibition against bastardy even in ancient times (Deut 23:2).

---

Now I love Jesus as much as you do, dearest sistah. But business is business. We Indian Hindus are owed some serious repayment by Jesus for all that gold gifted to him. We're like the Jews on the topic of money. And Caspar was a treasurer representing an Indian king, a bank accountant in modern parlance.

That pot of gold wasn't really a gift in the modern sense. More of a loan. That's my sole purpose of joining this forum. To remind Mr. Jesus that he needs to repay us Hindus the gold we gave him based on 2000 years of compound interest. The current interest rate in my country is 8%. I'll hand over an invoice to Landover Baptist church as soon as Jesus accepts a settlement.

While Jesus's shedding his blood for humanity might be adequate repayment for you Christian folks, it's not good enough for us Hindus.

All I asked Jesus was thirty-one pieces of silver 🥈 one more than he arranged for Judas. That would have been the first installment of the loan.

As a duly representative of a Hindu temple, my family are legitimate recipients. We also have the power to waive off some outstanding dues.

If Jesus makes his first installment this January, I give your church my personal assurance that we will defer the next payment to a foreseeable time in future.

But we certainly don't write off payments. Sorry the Wall Street culture doesn't fly around in my country. Waivers are unacceptable to us. Deferments are okay.

And Merry Christmas everyone. I love Jesus.

[MitzaLizalor]

And one of the three wise dudes, Caspar, came from India. And he brought the most expensive gift: gold.

In Sanskrit, Caspar means कोषाध्यक्ष (Kosha-dhyakhsha) or Treasurer. In other words, the Indian dude was the earthly financier of Jesus at the time of his birth.

Traveling has always been expensive in any age. Joseph and Mary were basically broke hobos, mendicants. I think Jesus could have chosen to be birthed in India, in a Hindu temple. If you don't mind living next to the cows, our attached barn stables are free to use for anyone.

In your rather dubious source, the supposed etymology of "Caspar" derives from, rather than informs, his gift-bringing. Anyway, the main problem is: How would Mary (or Joseph) travel to India if they were broke hobos?

An additional concern is the source's going on about Romish heretics, none of whom—as you may be aware—have any connection with Christianity. Unless you want to consider papism a Godly creed: that would be difficult since in every matter catholicism is diametrically opposed to anything taught by Jesus. That doesn't require you to agree with either Christ or Rome BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT ROME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY regardless of what they claim. It's as easy as एकं द्वौ त्रयः at least for those holding that Christianity aligns with any teaching of Christ, otherwise one may conclude that Ganseh is more akin to Jesus than a pope. (As it happens, I already do think that.)

Prayerfully.

[GanduHindu]

the wonderful gifts brought to Him by The 3 Kings ]

And one of the three wise dudes, Caspar, came from India. And he brought the most expensive gift: gold.

In Sanskrit, Caspar means कोषाध्यक्ष (Kosha-dhyakhsha) or Treasurer. In other words, the Indian dude was the earthly financier of Jesus at the time of his birth.

Traveling has always been expensive in any age. Joseph and Mary were basically broke hobos, mendicants. I think Jesus could have chosen to be birthed in India, in a Hindu temple. If you don't mind living next to the cows, our attached barn stables are free to use for anyone.

[MitzaLizalor]

Namaste Jesus ~ I must betray se

Jesus does not respond to spell-casting (whether muttered or typed) and is 100% resistant to mesmerism. I'm not sure what the underlined incantation is supposed to achieve but in His case it won't work.

At this time of year, Jesus is recalling His miraculous birth, the wonderful gifts brought to Him by The 3 Kings and the vast assemblage of angels singing about how glorious He is. What you put relates to Easter. Jesus does not want to think about Easter at Christmas. (You may think that God could have got Eve pregnant and simply murdered that baby, once it was born, but there would be no Judas; "sure," you may reflect, "yet Adam could have betrayed the thing," which overlooks the fact that The Betrayer goes and tops himself so if that were Adam, who'd be available to murder the baby? Eve couldn't do it due to her communicable defilement so if she touched the baby, whether or not it had grown up, it would no longer be pure and could not atone for Sin.) You really need to thing these things through!

Luke 2:13-14 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

[GanduHindu]

Namaste Jesus

I must betray several individuals next year, for reasons known only to my heart. Please ensure that I receive my thirty-one pieces of silver by January 2025, at least one more than what you arranged for Judas.

Rest assured; the cows of my family Hindu temple are well-fed. I would offer you the first-born calf. Requesting it not be turned into a McDonald's hamburger. Please keep it as a plaything.

Thank you come again.
GanduHindu

[Romeo Rovagnati]

Dear Baby Jesus,

Do you have any copy of the only good comic about American history that ironically was not made by americans, aka Tex Willer?



I hope you won't confuse with the sinful and frenchie Lucky Luke.

Thanks, and forgive the world for rejecting you in the latest years.

[Adam Fag]

Revelation 20

till the thousand years should be fulfilled:

So that would be the year nine-nine-nine?

[Isabella White]

Oh, my beloved : I do thank you for your very kind offer — from the bottom of my heart; 'tis very generous and gracious of you. My request this year is small, but very important. And, it is not for me, but for the betterment and protection of our beloved . Can you please ask the to ban that -bound SATAN Claus from infesting this Holy place? It appears that our JesOS might be infected, thereby not being effective at preventing evil from seeping in; so, might it be possible to have the "thousand years" promise of the advanced to 2024?

Revelation 20:1-3:

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:


Thanking you in advance, Dear, and may truly bless and watch over you during this glorious mas season.