[Basilissa]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Interesting question. If I'm reading poetry, or even a certain kind of 'classical' literature, I always prefer the original language. Otherwise, if I'm reading something fun just for recreation, it doesn't really matter.

Wow, you sound very smart. So, how many languages do you speak, in order to be able to read in original languages? I'm not very smart, so I'm fluent only in three languages; I can read in a few others, but I couldn't read very dry academic stuff, you know. (I can barely get through Bordieau in English, reading him in French would be unbearable, lol!).

Learning another language is actually an excellent way to get insight into another culture! Did you know that the way that people think (i.e. in what patterns, for example, when doing math) is very dependent on what language they think in? Also you can infer a lot of other things from a cultures' language. For example, if they have multiple tenses how to express verbs in past/present/future, or whether they distinguish nouns by sex. Fascinating stuff, but I digress...

I agree, it is fascinating. Did you know that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (meaning the stuff you just wrote) is called a hypothesis, even though it has been around for a century, because it has never been proven to be right? In other words, most anthropologists and linguists today agree that Sapir and Whorf exaggerated a lot the influence of language on human thought. Not to mention that their data was extremely limited. You should read their articles sometimes, like, critically. They wrote in relatively plain English, so these articles are easy to understand.

Anyway, thanks for answering, Laurence, Basilissa and James. Have a good day.

You welcome, and thank you, I most certainly will!

[JustPassingBy]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Also - if you think that all translations are imperfect, why do people even bother translating books? If the only language and culture a person can understand is the one we were born into, why do some people bother learning foreign languages and traveling abroad?

Interesting question. If I'm reading poetry, or even a certain kind of 'classical' literature, I always prefer the original language. Otherwise, if I'm reading something fun just for recreation, it doesn't really matter.

Learning another language is actually an excellent way to get insight into another culture! Did you know that the way that people think (i.e. in what patterns, for example, when doing math) is very dependent on what language they think in? Also you can infer a lot of other things from a cultures' language. For example, if they have multiple tenses how to express verbs in past/present/future, or whether they distinguish nouns by sex. Fascinating stuff, but I digress...

Are you implying that God given morality is somehow relative?

I'm not implying anything.
The same answer goes to your question as well, Laurence.

Anyway, thanks for answering, Laurence, Basilissa and James. Have a good day.

[James Hutchins]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

Sorry friend, no time to read the whole post. Looks like a lot of rambling. You lost my interest when you said you were familiar with but did not read the Bible. Kind of makes it hard to praise His Perfection when you have nary a clue what you are going on about.
So I'll help you out.
God made everything
Therefore, He understands everything
He has no reason not to be Honest with us.
Therefore, the Bible is factual.

Have a nice day!

[Basilissa]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?

Depends. If the translator is inspired by God (like it is the case with the KJV Bible), then the transpation is Perfect®.

Also - if you think that all translations are imperfect, why do people even bother translating books? If the only language and culture a person can understand is the one we were born into, why do some people bother learning foreign languages and traveling abroad?

Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

True Christians™ are perfect. (See the link in my signature?)

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times?

Are you implying that God given morality is somehow relative?

And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

Either you take the whole Scripture literally, or you burn in Hell forever. Period.

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot.

We don't extrapolate. We take the Bible as is.

I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose).

Show us an instance when you think we are cherry picking, and we'll prove you wrong.

The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way?

We don't.

And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition?

No. We just read the Bible. it's all there.

Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)?

John 20:29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

Because we have Jesus' own words to prove that we are on the right path.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

If the KJV(1611) was not THE definitive Bible don't you think that Jesus would have corrected it?

Or are you saying that the One who made all of creation cannot use spiritual Tippex(r)?

YIC

[JustPassingBy]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I see.
I am familiar with the Bible - basic cultural knowledge. I haven't read all of the evangelical texts in their original form (I don't mean in aramaic or hebrew - by "original form" I simply mean that in a language that I understand, but translated as close to possible to the original).

Incidentally, do you believe that scripture can be translated, while effectively preserving its true meaning, at all? I mean, if the original would transcend humanity, being put together by a perfect being (which would be God) , then every successive interpretation by a human (i.e. a translator) would necessarily deviate further and further away from the original?
Also, out of curiosity, if you would imagine a perfect being, then wouldn't that also imply that your mind is perfect, thereby proving that God lives inside you? Or conversely, if you would assert that your mind is not perfect, but you have an image of God in it (your mind), therefore God also is not perfect?

Another question I have concerns context. Most of the Abrahamic scripture is quite old, isn't it (even thousands of years, in some cases)? People obviously lived differently, had different values, beliefs, the whole world was very different during those times. How can one therefore take a literal interpretation of holy scripture during modern times? And if one doesn't take the whole text literally, how does one choose?

I took the time and read through many quotes (from scripture) that have been posted on this forum and I see where you are coming from - you seem to follow that scripture quite literally, while also extrapolating from it quite a lot. I don't have enough context in the sense to know whether you're also omitting to follow some other parts of scripture (I suggest you are - which would bring me back to my previous question; how do you choose). The extrapolation also raises the question (see the second paragraph) again - if God gave you scripture to follow, why would you interpret it in your own way? And if you do, where to stop, how far do you know you're allowed to go in the extrapolation process?

Lastly, you are obviously very sure that your way of life, your religion, your interpretation of God is correct. How have you come to that realization? Is it some kind of intuition? Have you seen God (if so, how does a perfect being look like?)? What convinces you that you are on the right path, apart from dogma or tradition?

I understand that I off-loaded quite a few questions here. I would think of a hundred more.
I would really appreciate if some of you could find the time to answer any of them. And please, think of me as a lost soul as opposed to a heathen or something like that - I'm simply curious and am not looking for conflict.

[A Follower]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life.

You are absolutely right, that is exactly what religion is about (well, Christian religion at least, muslimism is more about suicide bombing and catholicism promotes child rape and other perversions like worship of Mary).

We absolutely have to live a harmonious life. God tells us so in the Bible:

Colossians 3:12-14
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

We have to forbear one another, we have to forgive one another, we have to be meek and humble to one another. But wait, who is "one another"? That is us, the elect of God. We have to be nice to our fellow Christians who follow the entire Bible and all God's Wisdom. That's the moral standard we are tasked to uphold. It's a difficult one, but we will do it!

Heathens we have to avoid, or we are just as bad as them, John wrote:

2 John 1: 9-11
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Wow. I happened to find this forum today by chance and I must say that I'm absolutely astonished.

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life. A large (if not most - I haven't seen a single exception so far) proportion of the users of this forum seem to be deeply troubled and intolerant people. I feel very sorry for you and wonder what kind of horrible conditions you must've endured in your life to become like this.

In any case, I wish you all the best, even if you yourselves don't seem to have good wishes to other people.

You seem to have a fuzzy moral compass, swami. We are friendly, open and forgiving here. We are only intolerant of sin and our reaction is rebuke and a loving invitation to come to Jesus or go to Hell. That's a pretty reasonable attitude to have toward people who have only Hell to look forward to, I would say.

How about you? Got Jesus?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

A large proportion of the users of this forum seem to be deeply troubled and intolerant people.

Duh! Being intolerant is exactly what God demands from us. He commands us to stay away as far as possible from unbelievers. If we would touch an unbeliever we will burn in Hell for that.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

[John Creeser]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life.

Correct, but unfortunately most people don't abide by God's laws (and you apparently haven't read the Bible). Nothing we say on this forum (and the views held by all True Christians(tm)) is not in adherence of the Bible.

God tells us to try and save all of the lost souls out there, like yourself;

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

II Timothy 4:2-5
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

However, if we cannot, then you have no place here.

Leviticus 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Wow. I happened to find this forum today by chance and I must say that I'm absolutely astonished.

Thank you, friend. Power of Jesus is truly astonishing

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard

Right you are! We are enforcing moral standards of the Bible and so spreading the love of Christi to unbelieving, by force if needed!

GLORY!

[JustPassingBy]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Wow. I happened to find this forum today by chance and I must say that I'm absolutely astonished.

I thought the whole reason of being religious was to enforce a certain moral standard and/or a set of practices that let you live a harmonious life. A large (if not most - I haven't seen a single exception so far) proportion of the users of this forum seem to be deeply troubled and intolerant people. I feel very sorry for you and wonder what kind of horrible conditions you must've endured in your life to become like this.

In any case, I wish you all the best, even if you yourselves don't seem to have good wishes to other people.

[Bjorn Jensen]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

Thank you i have never laughed so hard as an idiot before. Plus God is all-powerful so surely if God hated it he would destroy it like Sodom

Putin will surely do that instead for Him!

[Didymus Much]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

...Plus God is all-powerful so surely if God hated it he would destroy it like Sodom

Sorry for the wall o' text, but this is one of those stories that God gets a little redundant verbose with:

Genesis 18:23-33 "23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. 33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place."

In a nutshell, it says there must be at least ten Righteous® people in Estonia (hard to believe, I know, I mean look at the place) for God to not have destroyed it.

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: 7 reasons why God hates Estonia

i have never laughed so hard as an idiot before.

Somehow I find that hard to believe