Prayers to the Most High

[BrotherLarry]

I saw an old friend last night and it wasn’t good. I haven’t seen him in almost three weeks and now he has come out to me as an atheist. As a result of this, he is not going to church any longer nor is he tithing. As we spoke he tried to convince me to renounce the Lord but I got angry and left. As I left I slammed the door.

Will you pray for his situation? Or should I just leave him to the upcoming judgment day and yell “I told you so” as our loving creator banishes him to his eternal deep fiery lake of just punishment? I did leave a Chick tract just in case before I slammed the screen door and rushed home to my prayer closet where all things are possible. I watched NCIS Miami but this situation was in my mind the whole time so I don’t know if the school teacher killed the principal or not.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

One thing to remind your friend is what your relationship would be in the world to come. We know that Salvation is only possible through Christ Jesus

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other¹ for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

therefore anyone rejecting Him will not make it to Heaven. For your friend, the argument that Jesus will save everyone after they die except maybe for people like Darwin or Himmler doesn't really apply (even if it's true) (which it isn't) because he already rejected Christ's offer. "No thank you Jesus," he's saying in effect, "I don't want your love; I think it's a rotten deal: I'd rather eat worms!" So we can dismiss that [hypothetical] discussion [with your friend] and get back to you. Of course you're concerned, and I know you're suffering

II Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him² if we deny him, he also will deny us

Over whom shall we reign? It will be a joint reign with Christ but without subjects how can anyone reign at all? You will already have explained to your friend that Salvation comes only in Him so all Christians will be there and everyone else will be somewhere else. Clearly if Christians were reigning over other Christians, the second group would not be reigning over anyone, unless there's going to be a 3rd caste of Christians for them to reign over. I'm sure you can where that would lead. However your friend would not even be in the 100-trillion-and-9th caste (necessitating a 100-trillion-and-10th caste) (and he wouldn't be in that either) so the solution is obvious. Christians will ALL be reigning and therefore reigning over The Unsaved. Your friend may wonder how long this will go on?

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they³ need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Perhaps in your prayers you could ask God to reveal an effective way to communicate this to your friend? It may not be a circumstance he desires. There are all sorts of opinions out there as to who gets to do what in the afterlife and I've referred to a couple here which are heresies (because they go against what God has already revealed) but am not offering an opinion myself. The relevant sources are included with context as footnotes which you may like to read to your friend.

In Christ.




1. Other than Jesus, see verse 10ª
2. Jesus, see verse 10ª
3. The servants of The Lamb⁴ see verse 3ª
4. Jesus is The Lamb see John 1:36

a. or click on hover link in the main text for Scripture in context

[BrotherLarry]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

My dearest Mitza,

I called my friend to make one last attempt and I told him the things you so logically and lovingly stated. He asked me if I knew what atheism is. I of course said yes. He says you can’t use the Bible to prove the Bible. He says there is no god and therefore no Noah, no Moses, no Jesus, no devil. He doesn’t believe in anything but if he did, it would be Buddha or that religion with the elephant god because he knows elephants are real. I told him that our God is jealous and doesn’t like it when we put other gods before Him. He just told me to shut up and never mention it again.

He wouldn’t even listen to the testimony of Kirk Cameron.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

He says you can’t use the Bible to prove the Bible.

That cuts both ways, though. He can't use the Bible to disprove the Bible, either. Is he saying, for example, that if God does not exist then Billy Graham never existed?

When I've discovered I'd been wrong, it only required someone to show me I was wrong. They didn't have to offer an alternative explanation. Understanding THAT the universe was created doesn't require me to know HOW it was done. Usually the cosmo-geeks start going on about how stars form or why there needs to be dark energy. But all of that is irrelevant. Perhaps your friend would like to hear more about WHAT god has done to redirect his obsession away from WHY anything was done at all. By his logic, if nothing were DONE then nothing would EXIST and yet there he is.

I will pray for endurance as you persevere with this ministry and for the breastplate of faith and love to resist the darts of Satan.

I Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

[BrotherLarry]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

He said Billy Graham was a charlatan whose primary desire was to get weak minded people to support his world travels and then set his son up with enough money to continue the family business. I showed him this forum and he says we are elitist scum with no proof of our claims for God. He also said Pastor Ezekiel is a money driven madman. I nearly fainted.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

He said Billy Graham was a charlatan whose primary desire was to get weak minded people to support his world travels and then set his son up with enough money to continue the family business. I showed him this forum and he says we are elitist scum with no proof of our claims for God. He also said Pastor Ezekiel is a money driven madman. I nearly fainted.

I think I'm beginning to see your friend's problem. It's not for me to say whether he has a future ministry but the pricks get them kicking almost a reflex action I suppose, as Paul well knew.

Acts 9:4-5 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

I showed him this forum and he says we are elitist scum ...

That's really quite confusing - the words "elitist" and "scum" don't fit together. Has he perhaps had some sort of brain seizure? If so, I would put it down to God's Holy Will and simply leave him to get on with it as best he can. If Jesus wishes to heal him, then He will do so, in His Omnipotent Wisdom, with or without my prayers.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

I think I agree with MitzaLizalor, this prick's trying to muscle in on Pastor Zeke's action. If so, he's come to the wrong forum.

[WWJDnow]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

It's sounding more and more like your friend is possessed by a demon. You can't reason with demons; the only solution is to burn them out.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Prayers to the Most High

This guy is really starting to p*iss me off. What a nerve to criticize our religion. If he doesn't like circular reasoning then he can try doing it with a pentagram and see where that gets him. Clue - see below.