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Re: True Christians are Perfect!
Pastor Isaac was not calling you a name. He was identifying the logical fallacy you employed. If anyone is being persecuted here, it is us.
To address a few points from your previous posts:
I remember John 8:7 very well and in context. In fact, I mentioned the misinterpretation of this verse in this very thread several months ago.
John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
The Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke were born in sin just as we all are (e.g., Psalm 51:5). The difference between the Pharisees and True Christians™, though, is that True Christians™ have been washed in the Blood of Jesus while the Pharisees had not. You can study all the Scripture you want, but unless one has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal LORD and Savior and has been baptized in His Name, there is no way one can have his or her sins washed away. It is only through the Blood of Christ that we are made perfect.
Further, Jesus here illustrates His Grace. Instead of condemning the harlot, he exhorts her to live as a True Christian™ and commit no more sin. It's not just a matter of having our sins washed away; as True Christians™, we are incapable of sin!
I John 3:6-9
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth
Can you support this argument with Scripture, or is this an expression of how you feel about God's Word?
Again, can you support this with Scripture, or is this a non-Biblical personal opinion? The following verses contradict your assertion that Salvation™ can be impermanent.
John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jude 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
If, in your heart, you still feel as though you are susceptible to temptation, then you have some very serious questions to ask yourself about your supposed salvation. As True Christians™, we know in our hearts that once we are Saved®, we are always Saved®. There are many false churches out there that teach false doctrine and lead people who are not Saved® to believe they are. Jesus warned us about these.
Matthew 7:13-15
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
If, as I suspect, you have fallen prey to one of these ravening wolves, then I am gladdened that the LORD has brought you here, that you may discover True Doctrine™.
Originally posted by Sword of the Spirit
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To address a few points from your previous posts:
Remember the verse John 8:7? The verses after that state that the people began to leave, the older ones first (the wisest of the people), until all were gone. Keep in mind these are the people that studied the scriptures (The Bible) intently, and kept it down to the letter.
John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
The Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke were born in sin just as we all are (e.g., Psalm 51:5). The difference between the Pharisees and True Christians™, though, is that True Christians™ have been washed in the Blood of Jesus while the Pharisees had not. You can study all the Scripture you want, but unless one has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal LORD and Savior and has been baptized in His Name, there is no way one can have his or her sins washed away. It is only through the Blood of Christ that we are made perfect.
Further, Jesus here illustrates His Grace. Instead of condemning the harlot, he exhorts her to live as a True Christian™ and commit no more sin. It's not just a matter of having our sins washed away; as True Christians™, we are incapable of sin!
I John 3:6-9
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth
I think the biggest issue lies in the question of 'why' to each one of God's commands. He gives them to us for a reason, not just because he felt like it. He wants us to live in harmony with each other, and these laws simply help out.
Yes, I would say that he cleansed us, but it is possible to dirty our hands again.
John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jude 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
If, in your heart, you still feel as though you are susceptible to temptation, then you have some very serious questions to ask yourself about your supposed salvation. As True Christians™, we know in our hearts that once we are Saved®, we are always Saved®. There are many false churches out there that teach false doctrine and lead people who are not Saved® to believe they are. Jesus warned us about these.
Matthew 7:13-15
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
If, as I suspect, you have fallen prey to one of these ravening wolves, then I am gladdened that the LORD has brought you here, that you may discover True Doctrine™.
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