A question to the faithful...

[Xanretsu]

Hello. Though my name is Xanretsu, you may label me whatever you feel. I come before you to ask questions about your faith, your morals, and further, to question everything you believe in. Though it sounds complacent, try not to over-analyze anything I'm saying and interpret it as satanic or sacrilegious, I only mean to gain knowledge and awareness of this whole...thing. Also, I am in no way attempting to bash you, for before you were a Christian, before you were a sinner, before you were adults, before you were labelled babies and etc, you were human, you are my reflections and I must learn from each of you.


Have any of you ever questioned your faith?? Have any of you actually got down to the bare bones of it all, and asked what if? Not asking your preacher/pastor/minister, not even your parents, but your own self? Have you ever asked your own heart, your feelings on the subject of Christianity? Perhaps religion itself? Or has the fear of God crippled your critical thought processes to the point where you no longer can rely on your own self for survival? Do you still have the ability to judge life for yourself, without the crutches of your beliefs or the crutch of the "Sword?" Moreover, can you distinguish your feelings from your thoughts? Do you think what you feel in your heart is not the way it's supposed to be?


Westside Baptist Church, Pacifica, California. That is where it started for me, and that was where it ended. Born again, Bible believing baptized Christian. That was me, WAS. Unfortunately, my mind interpretted life traumatically different than everyone else I saw in church. I was born "gifted," or, like 97% of you would say, I was born a witch, or just plain old born satanic, because of my ability to see and feel things others lack. I never understood it, yet I joined the church thinking I could find answers. Twelve years later, and nothing answered, I had to let go. Instead of finding what I was seeking, I found fear, and lots of it. I feared expressing myself to my preacher or anyone for that matter, I was always the quiet watcher, subtly spectating the humans before me and passing judgements for my own self. I was curious to discuss my intuition with other's, but the fear of "God" prevented me from discussing it. According to the Bible, Jesus was the only one who was worthy of practicing such abilities, so you might be able to understand the amount of fear penetrating my body once I actually read the Bible. Confusion, disarray, incoherency, just all around stars circling my head. I wouldn't dare discuss it with my preacher, for fear of ridicule. There was a time in my life where I actually worried more about the projection of my self-image towards other humans than actually concentrating on my own personal feelings. I paid heavily for that betrayal. And I promised that I'd never stab my soul in the back again, for anyone, not even Jesus. I left the church, they won't even let me in the building because of who I am now.


Over the years after I left the church, I became more and more aware and more and more "psychic" or intuitive. I discovered things about the way this universe actually works and how you actually can know, without a doubt, what's out there. Looking back at where I came from, I always questioned the Bible, because it always contradicted itself. I do not understand how hard it is for people who are so caught up in their own faith and fear of God that they cannot see the obvious.

Example. God created Adam and Eve, yes? Yes. Did God create ANY MORE humans other than Adam and Eve? According to the Bible, He did NOT. If this is true, like I'm sure many of you believe, then the word "incest" is the first thing that comes to mind, atleast to mine. How the Bible clearly says that incest is wrong, I can't quote where exactly, but I'm sure it says incest is wrong, and yet it directly contradicts itself because if God hated incest, and Adam and Eve were the ONLY TWO HUMAN BEINGS CREATED BY GOD, then how is it possible that the human race has gotten to the point it has today, without incest? Adam and Eve had babies, and then what? God told them they couldn't mate together and populate the planet? Or is there some convenient explanation or some sort of lost scripture that we are unaware of in which it states specifically that God actually created more humans other than Adam and Eve? Are you still following me? How is it logically possible for this world to be populated without the use of incest? Are you going to say that God allowed it just that one time, and now it's a sin to do such a thing? What does that do to God's own credibility as a Creator? How can you take Him serious if he switches his own "Laws" around so many times and then contradicts himself in his own book? Can you still think critically? Or are you going to slam me for even bringing this up for debate?

The Bible, as I know it, is filled with contradictions. Just so we're on the same page, I read the KING JAMES VERSION of the Bible, the only bible, supposedly, that is backed by Jesus himself. When you think of things such as what I stated above, does the fear of God come to heart? Do you fear reckoning? If so, why? Another contradiction is God's own love, supposedly, unconditional love. How can you say you love someone, unconditionally, and then damn them to an eternity of Hell in the name of love and for the sake of that person to learn? How can you learn about God when you're burning? Another contradiction, according to the Bible, God knows all, sees all, hears all, and etc. If this is true, then is it not logical to say that God created Lucifer with the FULL INTENTION of making him the King of all Evil? If God knows all, as the "good book" certainly states he does, then did He not see Lucifer's betrayal? Direct contradiction, perhaps it was God's intention to create Satan all along to bring us closer to him. If this is true, then should we not love and appreciate Satan for even existing? Because to me, Satan is kind of like Jesus, is he not?

Jesus was a great teacher, but is satan not the greatest teacher of them all? If he teaches us to go towards the light, should we not be thankful and appreciative of his overall existence? Why must we damn him and curse his existence? If he didn't exist, would it be true that we would not even know the love of God? Contradiction. Satan is a teacher, like it or not, he is here to teach us, and if it is indeed true that he draws more towards God through his evil tactics, is it not above our thinking to question whether or not God really DID make Satan intentionally? If God DID make him intentionally, then why is it that he contradicts himself and swears that satan is the king of all evil? God created Satan, does that not make him equal to Satan? General rule of thumb here people, in order to create something, that something must first exist within you, or else you'd never know what you're creating. God did not just create Lucifer, God created the King of ALL EVIL. Does that not make them, logically, brothers so to speak?


To say that God knows all and sees all, and then to say He didn't know at the time that Lucifer would betray him, is a direct contradiction and a violation of your own beliefs, is it not? You say God knows all, and then say that he didn't know that Lucifer was going to betray him, is this not a slap in God's own face to even think such thoughts? Maybe just this one time he didn't know? Another contradiction. God works in mysterious ways? This saying brings me to my final point.

After I left the church and began searching for a new way of life, as I have stated before, I found out some things about the universe in which we dwell in. I always questioned the fact that prayers are always answered, no matter the religion or belief. Even if you're a sinner and you pray, you'll be answered. You'll typically get what you want and/or need. That always intrigued me, so I researched this "power." The conclusion I came to is this, no matter the beliefs, no matter the religion, "God" will always answer your prayer and help you in whatever it is you desire, murder, life, love, hate, men, women, whatever your heart's desire, if you want it hard enough, and you will it through your heart, you will get it. No matter your beliefs, you will get it. This holds true for 100% of humanity, it can work with prayer and without prayer. I tested it, I tried it by saying "Dear Jesus....Amen," and then I tried it without the Dear Jesus, and Amen. Both times worked. Are you too scared to attempt what I said?

Before you bash me, before you think there actually is someone up there who has your back, think carefully. Language, for example, was developed as an exterior response to human experience. Humans experience, and then judge. Language hasn't changed much over the centuries, it is just a complex combination of sounds generated through our vocal cords to express what we feel and think on the inside, also to express what we see on the outside, true? True. Every different culture and race of humans have their own form of language, yes? Yes. But we are not born knowing any of it. We are, for lack of a better explanation, born ignorant of everything they say is essential to salvation. If this is true, then does God really care who is saved and who isn't? Contradiction.

What about a human born in the forests of South America? Born to a tribe with no beliefs or nothing to do with any type of "higher power." He grows up and lives a full life and dies, not ever knowing the Lord. Am I to believe he is going to burn in hell for his own ignorance? Maybe not ignorance, because he didn't know in the first place, ignorance entitles someone to know something about something else, and ignore it anyway. So, moreover, is this human being not INNOCENT...BECAUSE he never knew? No one ever told him? And now hes damned to hell and he doesn't even know why!??! Am I to believe that our God is THAT CRUEL??

Tell me.

[Wide-Open]

Re: A question to the faithful...

Welcome friend. That is a long post, but we appreciate that, and I actually even read it.

Now I will not address each and every point, but I will address some.

Have any of you ever questioned your faith??

Personally? Of course I have. In fact, I used to be an atheist before I became Saved®. But after that, I realised that faith is faith, and not logic our doubt or "critical thinking". You either believe or you don't. We do.

Do you think what you feel in your heart is not the way it's supposed to be?

No.

Westside Baptist Church, Pacifica, California. That is where it started for me, and that was where it ended.

That was your first error. They are a bunch of liebrals who don't know the first thing about the Bible (KJV 1611 only, as you know). You should have come to us, The Landover Baptist Church, God's favorite.

Born again, Bible believing baptized Christian. That was me, WAS. Unfortunately, my mind interpretted life traumatically different than everyone else I saw in church. I was born "gifted," or, like 97% of you would say, I was born a witch, or just plain old born satanic, because of my ability to see and feel things others lack.

Is that a fact, or is that superstition?

Example. God created Adam and Eve, yes? Yes. Did God create ANY MORE humans other than Adam and Eve? According to the Bible, He did NOT.

Of course he did. Did you REALLY read your Bible friend? To quote Brother V.

Remember in day six, Genesis 1:26, he made man, then in Genesis 2:7, he made man again. Praise His redundant nature!

You can check this on-line, or you can read his Excellent "Bible In A Year" effort here.

In any case, no need for incest.

Can you still think critically? Or are you going to slam me for even bringing this up for debate?

We never "slam" or "ban" people who are polite.

The Bible, as I know it, is filled with contradictions.

Yes it is, and they are called "heretic traps" as Brother Jeb explains very well.

Do you fear reckoning? If so, why?

You bet ya. God can be pretty grumpy at times, and God is a KILLER!

He only loves those who love Him. Again, that worthless liebral church of yours does not understand the Bible like we do.

What about a human born in the forests of South America? Born to a tribe with no beliefs or nothing to do with any type of "higher power." He grows up and lives a full life and dies, not ever knowing the Lord. Am I to believe he is going to burn in hell for his own ignorance? Maybe not ignorance, because he didn't know in the first place, ignorance entitles someone to know something about something else, and ignore it anyway. So, moreover, is this human being not INNOCENT...BECAUSE he never knew? No one ever told him? And now hes damned to hell and he doesn't even know why!??! Am I to believe that our God is THAT CRUEL??

Tell me.

I'll tell you: they are hellbound, period. Instead of hearing the voice of Christ - and every human being can hear that voice - they listen to ooga booga and dance around pots or eat eachother. They will never be saved, so sadly, they will end up in the Great Lake of Fire. PRAISE Jesus' never ending love for us!

I'll leave your other questions for the other Pastors, but I hope to have given you some answers.

YIC,

Wide-Open

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: A question to the faithful...

Hello. Though my name is Xanretsu, you may label me whatever you feel. I come before you to ask questions about your faith, your morals, and further, to question everything you believe in. Though it sounds complacent, try not to over-analyze anything I'm saying and interpret it as satanic or sacrilegious, I only mean to gain knowledge and awareness of this whole...thing. Also, I am in no way attempting to bash you, for before you were a Christian, before you were a sinner, before you were adults, before you were labelled babies and etc, you were human, you are my reflections and I must learn from each of you.

This is not a debate forum. If you are interested in learning more about Landover Baptist Church, then I suggest you read through as many threads as you can. Start with THIS ONE, then maybe THIS ONE. If you'd like to retain your posting privileges, keep a respectful tone.

Have any of you ever questioned your faith?? Have any of you actually got down to the bare bones of it all, and asked what if? Not asking your preacher/pastor/minister, not even your parents, but your own self? Have you ever asked your own heart, your feelings on the subject of Christianity? Perhaps religion itself? Or has the fear of God crippled your critical thought processes to the point where you no longer can rely on your own self for survival? Do you still have the ability to judge life for yourself, without the crutches of your beliefs or the crutch of the "Sword?" Moreover, can you distinguish your feelings from your thoughts? Do you think what you feel in your heart is not the way it's supposed to be?

True Christians(tm) are Saved(c) and never waste a moment questioning God's Divine Plan for us all. Neither should you.

Westside Baptist Church, Pacifica, California. That is where it started for me, and that was where it ended. Born again, Bible believing baptized Christian. That was me, WAS. Unfortunately, my mind interpretted life traumatically different than everyone else I saw in church. I was born "gifted," or, like 97% of you would say, I was born a witch, or just plain old born satanic, because of my ability to see and feel things others lack. I never understood it, yet I joined the church thinking I could find answers. Twelve years later, and nothing answered, I had to let go. Instead of finding what I was seeking, I found fear, and lots of it. I feared expressing myself to my preacher or anyone for that matter, I was always the quiet watcher, subtly spectating the humans before me and passing judgements for my own self. I was curious to discuss my intuition with other's, but the fear of "God" prevented me from discussing it. According to the Bible, Jesus was the only one who was worthy of practicing such abilities, so you might be able to understand the amount of fear penetrating my body once I actually read the Bible. Confusion, disarray, incoherency, just all around stars circling my head. I wouldn't dare discuss it with my preacher, for fear of ridicule. There was a time in my life where I actually worried more about the projection of my self-image towards other humans than actually concentrating on my own personal feelings. I paid heavily for that betrayal. And I promised that I'd never stab my soul in the back again, for anyone, not even Jesus. I left the church, they won't even let me in the building because of who I am now.


Over the years after I left the church, I became more and more aware and more and more "psychic" or intuitive. I discovered things about the way this universe actually works and how you actually can know, without a doubt, what's out there. Looking back at where I came from, I always questioned the Bible, because it always contradicted itself. I do not understand how hard it is for people who are so caught up in their own faith and fear of God that they cannot see the obvious.

If you believe that you have "psychic powers" then you are most likely possessed by satan. Everything based on your sick, arrogant assumptions about your "powers" is a lie, planted in your head by the father of lies, satan. Most likely you attended a false Christian church, as so many do.

Example. God created Adam and Eve, yes? Yes. Did God create ANY MORE humans other than Adam and Eve? According to the Bible, He did NOT. If this is true, like I'm sure many of you believe, then the word "incest" is the first thing that comes to mind, atleast to mine. How the Bible clearly says that incest is wrong, I can't quote where exactly, but I'm sure it says incest is wrong, and yet it directly contradicts itself because if God hated incest, and Adam and Eve were the ONLY TWO HUMAN BEINGS CREATED BY GOD, then how is it possible that the human race has gotten to the point it has today, without incest? Adam and Eve had babies, and then what? God told them they couldn't mate together and populate the planet? Or is there some convenient explanation or some sort of lost scripture that we are unaware of in which it states specifically that God actually created more humans other than Adam and Eve? Are you still following me? How is it logically possible for this world to be populated without the use of incest? Are you going to say that God allowed it just that one time, and now it's a sin to do such a thing? What does that do to God's own credibility as a Creator? How can you take Him serious if he switches his own "Laws" around so many times and then contradicts himself in his own book? Can you still think critically? Or are you going to slam me for even bringing this up for debate?

The Bible, as I know it, is filled with contradictions. Just so we're on the same page, I read the KING JAMES VERSION of the Bible, the only bible, supposedly, that is backed by Jesus himself. When you think of things such as what I stated above, does the fear of God come to heart? Do you fear reckoning? If so, why? Another contradiction is God's own love, supposedly, unconditional love. How can you say you love someone, unconditionally, and then damn them to an eternity of Hell in the name of love and for the sake of that person to learn? How can you learn about God when you're burning? Another contradiction, according to the Bible, God knows all, sees all, hears all, and etc. If this is true, then is it not logical to say that God created Lucifer with the FULL INTENTION of making him the King of all Evil? If God knows all, as the "good book" certainly states he does, then did He not see Lucifer's betrayal? Direct contradiction, perhaps it was God's intention to create Satan all along to bring us closer to him. If this is true, then should we not love and appreciate Satan for even existing? Because to me, Satan is kind of like Jesus, is he not?

As I said, you are possessed by satan. If you click on the PAYPAL button at the bottom of this page and send us a $30,000 down payment, we will fly in our crack team of demon extractors to your location within 48 hours of receipt of your Love Offering. You are deep in his clutches, and need help now.

Jesus was a great teacher, but is satan not the greatest teacher of them all? If he teaches us to go towards the light, should we not be thankful and appreciative of his overall existence? Why must we damn him and curse his existence? If he didn't exist, would it be true that we would not even know the love of God? Contradiction. Satan is a teacher, like it or not, he is here to teach us, and if it is indeed true that he draws more towards God through his evil tactics, is it not above our thinking to question whether or not God really DID make Satan intentionally? If God DID make him intentionally, then why is it that he contradicts himself and swears that satan is the king of all evil? God created Satan, does that not make him equal to Satan? General rule of thumb here people, in order to create something, that something must first exist within you, or else you'd never know what you're creating. God did not just create Lucifer, God created the King of ALL EVIL. Does that not make them, logically, brothers so to speak?

Just because God created everything on earth, it does not follow that every creation is His "brother." You are making things up about God, and that is a serious sin, friend.

To say that God knows all and sees all, and then to say He didn't know at the time that Lucifer would betray him, is a direct contradiction and a violation of your own beliefs, is it not? You say God knows all, and then say that he didn't know that Lucifer was going to betray him, is this not a slap in God's own face to even think such thoughts? Maybe just this one time he didn't know? Another contradiction. God works in mysterious ways? This saying brings me to my final point.

After I left the church and began searching for a new way of life, as I have stated before, I found out some things about the universe in which we dwell in. I always questioned the fact that prayers are always answered, no matter the religion or belief. Even if you're a sinner and you pray, you'll be answered. You'll typically get what you want and/or need. That always intrigued me, so I researched this "power." The conclusion I came to is this, no matter the beliefs, no matter the religion, "God" will always answer your prayer and help you in whatever it is you desire, murder, life, love, hate, men, women, whatever your heart's desire, if you want it hard enough, and you will it through your heart, you will get it. No matter your beliefs, you will get it. This holds true for 100% of humanity, it can work with prayer and without prayer. I tested it, I tried it by saying "Dear Jesus....Amen," and then I tried it without the Dear Jesus, and Amen. Both times worked. Are you too scared to attempt what I said?

Before you bash me, before you think there actually is someone up there who has your back, think carefully. Language, for example, was developed as an exterior response to human experience. Humans experience, and then judge. Language hasn't changed much over the centuries, it is just a complex combination of sounds generated through our vocal cords to express what we feel and think on the inside, also to express what we see on the outside, true? True. Every different culture and race of humans have their own form of language, yes? Yes. But we are not born knowing any of it. We are, for lack of a better explanation, born ignorant of everything they say is essential to salvation. If this is true, then does God really care who is saved and who isn't? Contradiction.

What about a human born in the forests of South America? Born to a tribe with no beliefs or nothing to do with any type of "higher power." He grows up and lives a full life and dies, not ever knowing the Lord. Am I to believe he is going to burn in hell for his own ignorance? Maybe not ignorance, because he didn't know in the first place, ignorance entitles someone to know something about something else, and ignore it anyway. So, moreover, is this human being not INNOCENT...BECAUSE he never knew? No one ever told him? And now hes damned to hell and he doesn't even know why!??! Am I to believe that our God is THAT CRUEL??

Tell me.

You obviously attended a false Christian church where they spread the common lie that "God loves everyone" by nature of having created everything. This is a lie. God loves some folks and hates some folks. God does things HIS way, not yours or mine.

I'd like to suggest that you read through some of our sermons in THIS section of the forum. They might help you get your head on straight.

I'd also like to ask you to introduce yourself before launching into anymore tirades like this. What is your name? How old are you? How long have you been possessed by satan? And so on.

[Xanretsu]

Re: A question to the faithful...

I guess I must've ran into another heretic trap as i read Genesis 1:26-3:1. It says God created man, as you said, and he created them again, as you said. After, I see the story concentrates on Adam and Eve specifically. Am I to believe that when it says God created "the man Adam," He is indeed creating more than just one? In the Bible, the context is singular, meaning he only created one. Interpretation is huge right here, are you sure you're reading this correctly? Am I to believe this is a huge conspiracy God is playing on the mind of the subtle? Another thing, am I to believe that the weight of the entire race of humans was put solely on the shoulders of one man and one woman? If indeed God DID create more humans prior and/or right after Adam and Eve before the great sin, how is it possible that He holds accountable every soul on the planet at the time and time to come for the screw up of one man and woman? Because of their race? Thats like saying you are the devil, and you are the reason slavery existed, white man. I hold you accountable because of your skin color, now pay the consequence, is that fair for me to say that? Of course it isn't, but of course, it's God we're talking about here, so we must obey, right? If this is true, then why is it that we are born seperate and individual from one another, and not somehow connected? We're born individual, and yet we pay the ultimate price for somebody else's actions...that makes absolutely no sense, but of course its wrong for me to "think." It's God's Will, correct?

How can he give me this mind and tell me not to use it? Am I truly at fault for expressing my feelings in which He created me with? To answer your question about me being superstitious, the answer is no, I know what's going on around me. Have you ever fallen asleep and dreamed a dream so real you'd swear you were living it? Only to wake up and have almost everything you dreamed about occur to you in real time? Have you ever lost focus on everything you might be thinking about, relaxed to the point where you're in complete and total bliss, and then have random images start coming to you in your thoughts, unforced and unwilled? Can you empathize with humanity, meaning can you feel what others feel, truly? Not thought wise, but literally heart wise, can you actually tap into the emotional energy flow of another human other than yourself and/or your wife, be it a random person on the street and FEEL what they are feeling at any given moment? Thats what I mean when I said that, they lied to you when they said psychics are mind readers, we are not, we simply feel what the other person is feeling.

Heretic traps? I just read those, and they're put there for heretics??? Are you sure they aren't just put there to test how easily manipulated you are?? Are you sure there isn't someone in the background of all of this pointing and laughing at you, simply stating "I can't believe they fell for it!"

I'm not too sure about this whether it states it in the Bible or not, but I was told that the Bible hasn't changed through out the years, and desecration doesn't happen. I challenged this theory and I wrote in my own Bible, before the beginning texts, "This book is a lie. Though there are great points and morals contained within, this book should only be used as a guideline and not to be taken seriously in the course of one's own life." And then I closed my book. Then opened it again, and it was still there, and I thought to myself...What benevolent force came down and prevented me from writing that in the Holy Bible? And then I thought, is it possible that this book has already been perverted through out the years?

I'm sure it's beyond your comprehension, but ask yourself, what if Jesus DID exist, but not in the exact context as was written in the Bible? What if Jesus was just like you and me, but was wiser and aware of himself, and what if the people who had majority control of this planet saw Jesus as a threat and executed him, took his testimonies away from him and perverted them all in the name of controlling and manipulating humanity in an effort to keep them in "check?" What if?


I understand what you're saying, but you sound borderline robotic to me, as if you're no longer human. Slamming my church saying it's worthless...be that as it may, it is still run by humans, for humans. Though I don't believe in them nor follow them, they helped me in my life at the time and I'll never forget it. Even if they might not've taught me "the way," they still loved me and taught me everything I needed to get through that time in my life, no regrets for having been taught about life from anyone or anything to me. None. Don't disregard, discredit or all around thrash those who teach you in life, doesn't matter if you came from a satan worshipping cult, they taught you about life, might not have been the most pleasant forms of life, but it's still life and it still eventually brought you to where you are now, closer to God. So to say my church is worthless is like saying cold air is worthless.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: A question to the faithful...

"What if" questions are the stepping-stones to eternal hellfire. A True Christian(tm) accepts God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost as they are.

[Wide-Open]

Re: A question to the faithful...

Have you ever fallen asleep and dreamed a dream so real you'd swear you were living it? Only to wake up and have almost everything you dreamed about occur to you in real time?

No.

Are you sure they aren't just put there to test how easily manipulated you are?? Are you sure there isn't someone in the background of all of this pointing and laughing at you, simply stating "I can't believe they fell for it!"

I thought we were going to keep this civil?

I'm sure it's beyond your comprehension

Not very civil.

I understand what you're saying, but you sound borderline robotic to me, as if you're no longer human.

Again, not very civil. I will therefor no longer reply to you.

Thank you for your persecution.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A question to the faithful...

I’m going to concentrate only on this passage in your missive

Am I to believe that when it says God created "the man Adam," He is indeed creating more than just one? In the Bible, the context is singular, meaning he only created one. Interpretation is huge right here, are you sure you're reading this correctly? Am I to believe this is a huge conspiracy God is playing on the mind of the subtle? Another thing, am I to believe that the weight of the entire race of humans was put solely on the shoulders of one man and one woman? If indeed God DID create more humans prior and/or right after Adam and Eve before the great sin, how is it possible that He holds accountable every soul on the planet at the time and time to come for the screw up of one man and woman? Because of their race?

1. Am I to believe that when it says God created "the man Adam," He is indeed creating more than just one?

Ge:1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Ge:1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ge:1:28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

You see that “man” means “mankind”

2. In the Bible, the context is singular, meaning he only created one.

I have just written that it is plural…

3. Am I to believe this is a huge conspiracy God is playing on the mind of the subtle?

No, you have been misled by false Christians – liars who make the image of God to suit themselves.

4. Another thing, am I to believe that the weight of the entire race of humans was put solely on the shoulders of one man and one woman?

No. God created Adam and then Eve from Adam – He created them without sin and in innocence.

Ge:2:25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They were different but were what we could have been and will be after death.

They were immortal

Ge:2:17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Thus if they did not eat, they would live for ever. The words “surely die” mean “it will be certain that you will eventually die”and imply that if they did not, then they would not die. Also:

Ge:3:19: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

We see immortality has been removed.

Adam and Eve differed in this respect from others, (Ge:1:26 above) who were created in His image – i.e. to look like Him but not with His attributes – thus they were general mankind, like you or I.

As a result of the loss of innocence, Adam and Eve became general mankind and had children (Cain and Abel) and Cain married into the People of the Land of Nod; these were just some of the people whom God had created as general mankind.

5. If indeed God DID create more humans prior and/or right after Adam and Eve before the great sin, how is it possible that He holds accountable every soul on the planet at the time and time to come for the screw up of one man and woman? Because of their race?

What race do you suppose Adam and Eve to be? I see nothing to indicate that there were any races until after the Flood, when Noah’s sons gave origin to the races.

Having dispensed with that you now ask why God acted as he did. The disobedience of the two was to be punished and that is what happened. Of The Children of the Land of Nod there is no note that they were anything other than mortal, peasant farmers – their position had not changed.

I hope this helps.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: A question to the faithful...

Welcome to the forum, friend. Let me address your point about incest first.

How is it logically possible for this world to be populated without the use of incest? Are you going to say that God allowed it just that one time, and now it's a sin to do such a thing?

I'm sure you remember the story of Lot. He had sex with both of his daughters (not a three-way of course, but one at a time) and got them both pregnant. Later in the New Testament, Peter refers to Lot as just and righteous.

2Pet 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pet 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

That winking smiley is really there in the KJV text. I'm not sure what that means. I suppose it's possible that Peter was being sarcastic. I don't know. But the point is that God didn't get around to telling folks that incest is a sin until the time of Moses, more than 1500 years after Adam and Eve.

Westside Baptist Church, Pacifica, California. That is where it started for me, and that was where it ended. Born again, Bible believing baptized Christian. That was me, WAS. Unfortunately, my mind interpretted life traumatically different than everyone else I saw in church. I was born "gifted," or, like 97% of you would say, I was born a witch, or just plain old born satanic, because of my ability to see and feel things others lack. I never understood it, yet I joined the church thinking I could find answers. Twelve years later, and nothing answered, I had to let go. Instead of finding what I was seeking, I found fear, and lots of it. I feared expressing myself to my preacher or anyone for that matter, I was always the quiet watcher, subtly spectating the humans before me and passing judgements for my own self. I was curious to discuss my intuition with other's, but the fear of "God" prevented me from discussing it. According to the Bible, Jesus was the only one who was worthy of practicing such abilities, so you might be able to understand the amount of fear penetrating my body once I actually read the Bible. Confusion, disarray, incoherency, just all around stars circling my head. I wouldn't dare discuss it with my preacher, for fear of ridicule. There was a time in my life where I actually worried more about the projection of my self-image towards other humans than actually concentrating on my own personal feelings. I paid heavily for that betrayal. And I promised that I'd never stab my soul in the back again, for anyone, not even Jesus. I left the church, they won't even let me in the building because of who I am now.

Over the years after I left the church, I became more and more aware and more and more "psychic" or intuitive. I discovered things about the way this universe actually works and how you actually can know, without a doubt, what's out there. Looking back at where I came from, I always questioned the Bible, because it always contradicted itself. I do not understand how hard it is for people who are so caught up in their own faith and fear of God that they cannot see the obvious.

That's quite the anti-testimony you have there, friend. I won't call you a witch, but it does sound like you have a pretty active imagination. More on that later.

Another contradiction, according to the Bible, God knows all, sees all, hears all, and etc. If this is true, then is it not logical to say that God created Lucifer with the FULL INTENTION of making him the King of all Evil? If God knows all, as the "good book" certainly states he does, then did He not see Lucifer's betrayal? Direct contradiction, perhaps it was God's intention to create Satan all along to bring us closer to him. If this is true, then should we not love and appreciate Satan for even existing? Because to me, Satan is kind of like Jesus, is he not?

Jesus was a great teacher, but is satan not the greatest teacher of them all? If he teaches us to go towards the light, should we not be thankful and appreciative of his overall existence? Why must we damn him and curse his existence? If he didn't exist, would it be true that we would not even know the love of God? Contradiction. Satan is a teacher, like it or not, he is here to teach us, and if it is indeed true that he draws more towards God through his evil tactics, is it not above our thinking to question whether or not God really DID make Satan intentionally? If God DID make him intentionally, then why is it that he contradicts himself and swears that satan is the king of all evil? God created Satan, does that not make him equal to Satan? General rule of thumb here people, in order to create something, that something must first exist within you, or else you'd never know what you're creating. God did not just create Lucifer, God created the King of ALL EVIL. Does that not make them, logically, brothers so to speak?

To say that God knows all and sees all, and then to say He didn't know at the time that Lucifer would betray him, is a direct contradiction and a violation of your own beliefs, is it not? You say God knows all, and then say that he didn't know that Lucifer was going to betray him, is this not a slap in God's own face to even think such thoughts? Maybe just this one time he didn't know? Another contradiction. God works in mysterious ways?

That rant about Satan reminds me of another rant I read once. Some atheist was going on about how Satan is the true hero of the Bible story, because it takes a lot of guts to stand up to an omnipotent being because he's being a jerk.

But to answer your question, of course God created Satan to tempt men to sin. Men have to use their free will to choose God over sin. If there's no temptation to sin, then there's no free will. God put Adam and Eve in the garden and forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They said OK and went about their business. They did as God asked, not because of free choice, but because they weren't tempted to do otherwise. THAT'S why God created Satan -- to tempt them so that they would actually have to make that choice.

Unfortunately, they made the wrong choice. If Eve had weighed her options and said, "No thanks, Devil, I think I'll do what God said", then we wouldn't have all the troubles we have, and the Bible would have ended after Genesis 3.

However, I don't quite follow your logic of God created Satan, therefore God equals Satan.

What about a human born in the forests of South America? Born to a tribe with no beliefs or nothing to do with any type of "higher power." He grows up and lives a full life and dies, not ever knowing the Lord. Am I to believe he is going to burn in hell for his own ignorance? Maybe not ignorance, because he didn't know in the first place, ignorance entitles someone to know something about something else, and ignore it anyway. So, moreover, is this human being not INNOCENT...BECAUSE he never knew? No one ever told him? And now hes damned to hell and he doesn't even know why!??! Am I to believe that our God is THAT CRUEL??

Your South American tribesman has no excuse.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

All men know the Gospel, because it is self-evident in creation. However people aren't thankful and want to live in sin, so they become vain in their imaginations invent their own pagan religions instead.

Have you ever fallen asleep and dreamed a dream so real you'd swear you were living it? Only to wake up and have almost everything you dreamed about occur to you in real time?

Yes. That's called deja-vu, which is caused by misfiring neurons in your brain. Instead of just forming new memories, there's also an uncanny dream-like feeling that you are reliving an existing memory, and the easiest way for your brain to make sense of it is to chalk the existing memory up to having come form a dream.

Have you ever lost focus on everything you might be thinking about, relaxed to the point where you're in complete and total bliss, and then have random images start coming to you in your thoughts, unforced and unwilled?

No, but that has a name. It's called "attention deficit disorder".

Can you empathize with humanity, meaning can you feel what others feel, truly? Not thought wise, but literally heart wise, can you actually tap into the emotional energy flow of another human other than yourself and/or your wife, be it a random person on the street and FEEL what they are feeling at any given moment? Thats what I mean when I said that, they lied to you when they said psychics are mind readers, we are not, we simply feel what the other person is feeling.

That's not a "psychic power". That's what empathy is. When you empathize with someone, you really do feel what you imagine the other person is feeling. Some people might be more accurate than others when imagining what others are feeling, or might empathize more strongly than others, but that doesn't make it a psychic power.

Now, if you can sit on one side of a wall, and have someone you can't see or hear come in sit on the other side of the wall, and you can accurately feel what this other person is feeling, that would be another story.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: A question to the faithful...

Hello. Though my name is Xanretsu, you may label me whatever you feel.

I'd call you your name, probably. It isn't Xanretsu.

I come before you to ask questions about your faith, your morals, and further, to question everything you believe in. Though it sounds complacent, try not to over-analyze anything I'm saying and interpret it as satanic or sacrilegious, I only mean to gain knowledge and awareness of this whole...thing. Also, I am in no way attempting to bash you, for before you were a Christian, before you were a sinner, before you were adults, before you were labelled babies and etc, you were human, you are my reflections and I must learn from each of you.

It sounds as though you have been reading cultish nonsense, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You might simply be attempting to philosophize. I define that attempt exactly as Webster does: to speculate or theorize, usually in a superficial or imprecise manner. If you prove a deeper pond than you first appear, I will acknowledge that fact.

Have any of you ever questioned your faith?? Have any of you actually got down to the bare bones of it all, and asked what if? Not asking your preacher/pastor/minister, not even your parents, but your own self? Have you ever asked your own heart, your feelings on the subject of Christianity? Perhaps religion itself? Or has the fear of God crippled your critical thought processes to the point where you no longer can rely on your own self for survival? Do you still have the ability to judge life for yourself, without the crutches of your beliefs or the crutch of the "Sword?" Moreover, can you distinguish your feelings from your thoughts? Do you think what you feel in your heart is not the way it's supposed to be?

Clearly, humans question. Curiosity, wonderment and questions are the cornerstones of logical thought. But the rest of your paragraph is phrased as though we all sit in caves, waiting for lightning to strike, and terrified because we know nothing of it nor how to accept that it creates fire for us much more often than it strikes one of us....and the one it strikes is typically doing something less than intelligent.

Westside Baptist Church, Pacifica, California. That is where it started for me, and that was where it ended. Born again, Bible believing baptized Christian. That was me, WAS. Unfortunately, my mind interpretted life traumatically different than everyone else I saw in church. I was born "gifted," or, like 97% of you would say, I was born a witch, or just plain old born satanic, because of my ability to see and feel things others lack. I never understood it, yet I joined the church thinking I could find answers. Twelve years later, and nothing answered, I had to let go. Instead of finding what I was seeking, I found fear, and lots of it. I feared expressing myself to my preacher or anyone for that matter, I was always the quiet watcher, subtly spectating the humans before me and passing judgements for my own self. I was curious to discuss my intuition with other's, but the fear of "God" prevented me from discussing it. According to the Bible, Jesus was the only one who was worthy of practicing such abilities, so you might be able to understand the amount of fear penetrating my body once I actually read the Bible. Confusion, disarray, incoherency, just all around stars circling my head. I wouldn't dare discuss it with my preacher, for fear of ridicule. There was a time in my life where I actually worried more about the projection of my self-image towards other humans than actually concentrating on my own personal feelings. I paid heavily for that betrayal. And I promised that I'd never stab my soul in the back again, for anyone, not even Jesus. I left the church, they won't even let me in the building because of who I am now.

Friend, you seem to have intelligence and leadership confused with stupidity and sheepishness. If you were a Mensa-level IQ, you would never have got your mind twisted into the nightmare you have just described. I do exactly what you do...or what you did before it got twisted. But I view it as a gift to be used for the greater good, not some satanic ability. I five you the credit at this point that you are accurately describing your true situation. You may not be. If you stood at the church door telling girls what they were wearing under their dresses, that would fit your description too, but it would not be an appropriate use of either intelligence or faith.

Over the years after I left the church, I became more and more aware and more and more "psychic" or intuitive. I discovered things about the way this universe actually works and how you actually can know, without a doubt, what's out there. Looking back at where I came from, I always questioned the Bible, because it always contradicted itself. I do not understand how hard it is for people who are so caught up in their own faith and fear of God that they cannot see the obvious.

Unfortunately, because we are created from the dirt of this planet and are tied irrevocably to it, you cannot know how the universe works or what is out there. In scientific terms, it is beyond our event horizon. So now you are beginning to sound less a philosopher and more like someone who has gone over the side. I do not mean that as an insult, but we either discuss reality, which is objective, or we discuss philosophy, which is subjective. I know many people who believe religion is both, and it is. But we are not discussing religion at this juncture. I am merely replying to your monograph.

Example. God created Adam and Eve, yes? Yes. Did God create ANY MORE humans other than Adam and Eve? According to the Bible, He did NOT.

I'm sorry, but you are immediately using a partial story as the complete story. Lilith exists in the Bible. And God must have created others, because they exist. Do not limit yourself....worse, don't limit GOD. If every blade of grass was described as it was created, the Bible would still in the first book of Genesis. Things happened and still happen that the Bible does not describe. That is obvious to every Biblical scholar. Unfortunately, one person in a million is a biblical scholar. Pastors, Reverends, Priests have a passing familiarity with the Bible but there is no possible way a twenty-something just out of seminary school can understand Theology. He is tossed out in the world to perform weddings and reading Eulogies. He will never have the time to actually understand what he is doing. I hate to say that, but that's just the way it is. Unless he is chosen by his church to study full time, as I was, the greater part of the beauty and horror of the world will never open to him.

If this is true, like I'm sure many of you believe, then the word "incest" is the first thing that comes to mind, atleast to mine. How the Bible clearly says that incest is wrong, I can't quote where exactly, but I'm sure it says incest is wrong, and yet it directly contradicts itself because if God hated incest, and Adam and Eve were the ONLY TWO HUMAN BEINGS CREATED BY GOD, then how is it possible that the human race has gotten to the point it has today, without incest? Adam and Eve had babies, and then what? God told them they couldn't mate together and populate the planet? Or is there some convenient explanation or some sort of lost scripture that we are unaware of in which it states specifically that God actually created more humans other than Adam and Eve? Are you still following me? How is it logically possible for this world to be populated without the use of incest? Are you going to say that God allowed it just that one time, and now it's a sin to do such a thing? What does that do to God's own credibility as a Creator? How can you take Him serious if he switches his own "Laws" around so many times and then contradicts himself in his own book? Can you still think critically? Or are you going to slam me for even bringing this up for debate?

I am not going to slam you. It simply is not a matter for debate. When Noah and his family returned from the flood, everything on earth had drowned. Yet Noah's sons found wives and started tribes. Churches which do not acknowledge reality aren't real churches.

The Bible, as I know it, is filled with contradictions. Just so we're on the same page, I read the KING JAMES VERSION of the Bible, the only bible, supposedly, that is backed by Jesus himself. When you think of things such as what I stated above, does the fear of God come to heart? Do you fear reckoning? If so, why? Another contradiction is God's own love, supposedly, unconditional love. How can you say you love someone, unconditionally, and then damn them to an eternity of Hell in the name of love and for the sake of that person to learn? How can you learn about God when you're burning? Another contradiction, according to the Bible, God knows all, sees all, hears all, and etc. If this is true, then is it not logical to say that God created Lucifer with the FULL INTENTION of making him the King of all Evil? If God knows all, as the "good book" certainly states he does, then did He not see Lucifer's betrayal? Direct contradiction, perhaps it was God's intention to create Satan all along to bring us closer to him. If this is true, then should we not love and appreciate Satan for even existing? Because to me, Satan is kind of like Jesus, is he not?

Yes. God knew full well the effect SATAN would have. SATAN is a fallen angel, very like God. But not like JESUS as far as we know. The angels came from somewhere. We don't know. Saying we know is lying.

Jesus was a great teacher, but is satan not the greatest teacher of them all? If he teaches us to go towards the light, should we not be thankful and appreciative of his overall existence? Why must we damn him and curse his existence? If he didn't exist, would it be true that we would not even know the love of God? Contradiction. Satan is a teacher, like it or not, he is here to teach us, and if it is indeed true that he draws more towards God through his evil tactics, is it not above our thinking to question whether or not God really DID make Satan intentionally? If God DID make him intentionally, then why is it that he contradicts himself and swears that satan is the king of all evil? God created Satan, does that not make him equal to Satan? General rule of thumb here people, in order to create something, that something must first exist within you, or else you'd never know what you're creating. God did not just create Lucifer, God created the King of ALL EVIL. Does that not make them, logically, brothers so to speak?

There is no contradiction. Satan is the evil that GOD made. Of the 31101 verses of Scripture, less than 200 of them do not deal with extreme violence. God is a violent God. But in church you were only told about those 200 verses of a loving God. That isn't true. Jesus is returning for one reason only and it is written clearly in every Bible. It is to start Armageddon and kill everyone on earth. This will happen after the four horsemen of the Apocalypse rain down horror and destruction. That is the Biblical God. But if you tell people that they don't care to support your church. They want God to be what they imagine Him to be.


To say that God knows all and sees all, and then to say He didn't know at the time that Lucifer would betray him, is a direct contradiction and a violation of your own beliefs, is it not? You say God knows all, and then say that he didn't know that Lucifer was going to betray him, is this not a slap in God's own face to even think such thoughts? Maybe just this one time he didn't know? Another contradiction. God works in mysterious ways? This saying brings me to my final point.

After I left the church and began searching for a new way of life, as I have stated before, I found out some things about the universe in which we dwell in. I always questioned the fact that prayers are always answered, no matter the religion or belief. Even if you're a sinner and you pray, you'll be answered. You'll typically get what you want and/or need. That always intrigued me, so I researched this "power." The conclusion I came to is this, no matter the beliefs, no matter the religion, "God" will always answer your prayer and help you in whatever it is you desire, murder, life, love, hate, men, women, whatever your heart's desire, if you want it hard enough, and you will it through your heart, you will get it. No matter your beliefs, you will get it. This holds true for 100% of humanity, it can work with prayer and without prayer. I tested it, I tried it by saying "Dear Jesus....Amen," and then I tried it without the Dear Jesus, and Amen. Both times worked. Are you too scared to attempt what I said?

Before you bash me, before you think there actually is someone up there who has your back, think carefully. Language, for example, was developed as an exterior response to human experience. Humans experience, and then judge. Language hasn't changed much over the centuries, it is just a complex combination of sounds generated through our vocal cords to express what we feel and think on the inside, also to express what we see on the outside, true? True. Every different culture and race of humans have their own form of language, yes? Yes. But we are not born knowing any of it. We are, for lack of a better explanation, born ignorant of everything they say is essential to salvation. If this is true, then does God really care who is saved and who isn't? Contradiction.

What about a human born in the forests of South America? Born to a tribe with no beliefs or nothing to do with any type of "higher power." He grows up and lives a full life and dies, not ever knowing the Lord. Am I to believe he is going to burn in hell for his own ignorance? Maybe not ignorance, because he didn't know in the first place, ignorance entitles someone to know something about something else, and ignore it anyway. So, moreover, is this human being not INNOCENT...BECAUSE he never knew? No one ever told him? And now hes damned to hell and he doesn't even know why!??! Am I to believe that our God is THAT CRUEL??

Tell me.

I am not able to take the rest point-by point. I have a busy day. But I will answer those questions for you when I have time.