Considering Lot

[handmaiden]

So, there I was just musing on all the virute and cleaniness of the Bible when my mind turned to Lot. I could not help but to wonder at the way that he was blessed.

First of all, there was the fact that he was delivered from Sodom, then his wife was turned into a pillar of salt. That must have been a relief. Being a foolish female, she probably gave him an earfull when he offered their two virgin daughters as rape bait to that crowd.

And getting back to the daughers, you notice there is no mention of Lot having sons at the time of the "offer". But later, after the family's escape into the mountains, the Lord allowed Lot to be raped by his daughters, which is far worse than the possibly of girls being gang raped by the townies. Still, the Lord allowed it for a reason: To finally give Lot those sons he needed.

Just think about it: Those sons/grandsons were even more Lot's children that his daughters were. They were only "half" his, so to speak. But the boys were three quarters his. It's almost a shame that Lot's daughters didn't have girl babies so that they could lay with their father/grandfather to give Lot sons/grandsons/great-grandsons that were even more his. What a great way to breed out the influence of the mother in one's offspring!

Ponderingly Yours,

Handmaiden

[Brother V]

Re: Considering Lot

So, there I was just musing on all the virute and cleaniness of the Bible when my mind turned to Lot. I could not help but to wonder at the way that he was blessed.

First of all, there was the fact that he was delivered from Sodom, then his wife was turned into a pillar of salt. That must have been a relief. Being a foolish female, she probably gave him an earfull when he offered their two virgin daughters as rape bait to that crowd.


Ponderingly Yours,

Handmaiden

I'm often amazed at the family life of Lot. They lived in Sodom, a town so wickedly depraved that it was wiped off the face of the earth. Everyone had sex with anything they could get their hands on.

Except for Lot's daughters.

Genesis 19: 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

So, Lot claims his daughters were virgins. In a town where everyone was having sex.

14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

So Lot's daughters were married. Since they mocked Lot, you have to assume that they were just as bad as the townsfolk. But, Lot's daughters hadn't known men... even though they were married.

Then, the girls (who haven't been with men) know how to get a man drunk, and then ride him until he bursts.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Lot was blackout drunk. There's another term... TDTF. Which apparently he wasn't. I wonder, did she clean off any residue from him, so that he didn't notice. Also, since they hadn't known men, it would have been a bloody mess, if her maidenhead was burst.

How two virgin daughters managed to get a guy drunk, pop their cherries, get pregnant... all while they believe the entire world was destroyed, is beyond my comprehension.

Thankfully, faith doesn't require comprehension or even plausibility.

YIC
V

[handmaiden]

Re: Considering Lot

Brother, thank you for your input. It is interesting that Lot's daughters were still virgins considering the morals of the town. One can only suppose that he kept a close eye on them. After all, their virginity was worth something.

As for the sons-in-law, I know that there is an understanding regarding the meaning of "betrothals" verses the finalized marriage. Since a damsel who is promised already is guilty of adultery if she has been raped, it make sense that the engagement was tatamount to a marriage minus that last final step.* Maybe the KJV lists them as sons-in-law, because "fiance" is a French word and would have left a bad taste in KJ's mouth.


Consideringly Yours

Handmaiden

* maybe the purported sons-in-laws were on the down payment plan with their bride price

[Robert Jones]

Re: Considering Lot

Still, the Lord allowed it for a reason: To finally give Lot those sons he needed.

It is true that God allowed this to happen; however, you must keep in mind that God did not approve of what Lots daughters did. This is very clear with the descendants of the two sons that the daughter bore, Moab and Ben-Ammi, whose descendants were the Moabites and the Ammonites.

The Moabites and the Ammonites were enemies of Israel. In Numbers 25, the descendants of Moab are the cause of God's anger against Israel for turning against God.

Numbers 25:1-3 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab: And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.

It was the Ammonites who provided the cruelest religious perversion in the history of Israel, that of Molech and the sacrifice of children. We see this perversion in the story of Jephthah in Judges, chapters 11 and 12. Jephthah led Israel in battle when the Ammonites made war against her. If you remember, Jephthah made a vow, a foolish vow, to sacrifice to God the first thing that met him when he came home victorious. What met him was his daughter, his only child. Jephthah, following the lead of the Ammonites, ended up killing his own daughter. On another occasion, in 1 Samuel 11, when the Ammonites were attacking the city of Jabesh in Gilead and the Jabeshites attempted to negotiate terms for surrender, the Ammonites demanded nothing less than to put out the right eye of each man in the city. How cruel and godless those Ammonites were.

Because of the sin of Lots daughters, Israel ended up having two enemies that would be a thorn to them for hundreds of years.

[Brother V]

Re: Considering Lot

Brother, thank you for your input. It is interesting that Lot's daughters were still virgins considering the morals of the town. One can only suppose that he kept a close eye on them. After all, their virginity was worth something.

As for the sons-in-law, I know that there is an understanding regarding the meaning of "betrothals" verses the finalized marriage. Since a damsel who is promised already is guilty of adultery if she has been raped, it make sense that the engagement was tatamount to a marriage minus that last final step.* Maybe the KJV lists them as sons-in-law, because "fiance" is a French word and would have left a bad taste in KJ's mouth.


Consideringly Yours

Handmaiden

* maybe the purported sons-in-laws were on the down payment plan with their bride price

Verse 14 makes it pretty clear that they were married.

14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

There was a word for betrothed, it's "betrothed". It's used 9 times in the KJV1611. It's in the Pentateuch, the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). Moses knew the word "betrothed" in Exodus 21:8; there's no reason he wouldn't know it when he wrote Genesis 19:14.

It's clear, Lot's daughters were married and virgins. It's also clear, that their husbands lived with Lot, in a town known for buttsecks, and those men never once Sodomized their wives.

YIC
V

[handmaiden]

Re: Considering Lot

Brother V:

I thank you and accept your correction. I am still a little confused though, I know that when Mary was known to be with child, Joseph considered divorcing her (albiet quitely to spare her public shame )due to her supposed adultery even though they weren't yet sleeping together. So, I thought there were "stages" in the marriage process.

Maybe my error is that I might have been reading the wrong verision of the Good Book at the time. Thanks for setting me right, I have a lot foolish ideas about the Bible and all kinds of other things.

Thankfully Yours,

Handmaiden

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Considering Lot

I always found the story of Lot and his daughters inspiring. Clearly they know that since Lot's wife was dead there was a good chance Lot would go gay, he was from Sodom after all. Lot would have seen a lot of ass pounding his life there so you know he was tempted and his soul was in grave danger. So Lot's daughters did the heroic thing and got him drunk and mounted him so he wouldn't turn into a disgusting pervert.

[Brother V]

Re: Considering Lot

I always found the story of Lot and his daughters inspiring. Clearly they know that since Lot's wife was dead there was a good chance Lot would go gay, he was from Sodom after all. Lot would have seen a lot of ass pounding his life there so you know he was tempted and his soul was in grave danger. So Lot's daughters did the heroic thing and got him drunk and mounted him so he wouldn't turn into a disgusting pervert.

I think you might be close brother BJ, however; I've heard people say that the daughters of Lot were under the impression that the entire earth had been destroyed (this time by fireballs; instead of by flood) and that the daughters did what they did in an effort to continue the species.

However, that theory doesn't hold up since in verse 23, you see that Lot and his wife and daughters were safely in the city of Zoar (another of the cities of the plain), when the brimstone and fire fell on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Then, you see in verse 30 that Lot left Zoar, because the people there probably thought he was some sort of bad person who carried the plague with him, since the last place he lived was destroyed.

Going by that story, you realize that the daughters slept with their father because they knew that no one would accept them, because they were survivors. So, to propagate, the only person they could actually have sex with was their father.

YIC
V

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Considering Lot

Going by that story, you realize that the daughters slept with their father because they knew that no one would accept them, because they were survivors. So, to propagate, the only person they could actually have sex with was their father.

YIC
V

Amen, brother. Just like Adam and Eve's offspring might have.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Considering Lot

I think you might be close brother BJ, however; I've heard people say that the daughters of Lot were under the impression that the entire earth had been destroyed (this time by fireballs; instead of by flood) and that the daughters did what they did in an effort to continue the species.

However, that theory doesn't hold up since in verse 23, you see that Lot and his wife and daughters were safely in the city of Zoar (another of the cities of the plain), when the brimstone and fire fell on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Then, you see in verse 30 that Lot left Zoar, because the people there probably thought he was some sort of bad person who carried the plague with him, since the last place he lived was destroyed.

Going by that story, you realize that the daughters slept with their father because they knew that no one would accept them, because they were survivors. So, to propagate, the only person they could actually have sex with was their father.

YIC
V

Well don't you think it depends on how you read this passage?

Genesis 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

It could be that they wanted Lot to dump his man seed in their fertile wombs, as God wants, and not up the south end of some Zoarian man-whore, which God is clearly willing to commit mass murder to stop. You have to admit God must have smiled on this act of selflessness from Lot's daughters they ended up with children. After all God had just made Sarah barren just for pretending to be Abraham's sister.

[handmaiden]

Re: Considering Lot

So, how hot do you suppose Lot really was?

Are we talking Sean Connery older guy looking or Bobby Lee Jones older guy looking?

I just want to make the Bible really come alive in my mind, is all.


Imaginatively Yours,

Handmaiden

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Considering Lot

So, how hot do you suppose Lot really was?

Are we talking Sean Connery older guy looking or Bobby Lee Jones older guy looking?

I just want to make the Bible really come alive in my mind, is all.


Imaginatively Yours,

Handmaiden

Well figure Sean Connery would have killed the sodomites with some cleverly concealed sandal knife and a witty quip or two* wanting the rape the angels and Booby Lee Jones would have just stared them down before kicking their asses I think those two are out for Lot. My suggestion would is for Jeff Bridges, older, kind of introspective, kind of stonerish.

* like say "looks like you lads bit off more than you could Jew"

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Considering Lot

I did a four part miniseries on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah starting at post 8.