[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, all.

The theist has the burden of proof, as they make the positive claim that a deity/god exists. All I must do, being the atheist, is refute their claims and "evidence."

Friend, you are all wrong. When an individual comes to a True-Christian(tm) Forum that is run by the Lord through True-Christians(tm), thus meaning that all the members of this Church know God, you must provide the evidence for your claim.

You should know that but sadly, your idols, such as Richard Dawkins, know nothing of real knowledge that comes through knowing Jesus.

James
1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, all.

Matter is just energy in disguise. And the law of conservation says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Thus the energy may always have existed, in different forms. The truth is that we don't know though.

Finally, a bit of honesty. You don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Answering a question by linking to Wikipedia is your idea of "intellectual discussion"?

If all your responses will be as well-considered as this, we should be finished "intellectually discussing" in about 10 minutes!

That page does not explain WHY the massively-dense universe would expand, against the pull of its own intense gravitational field. That's the question I asked. How about just admitting that you don't know, instead of expecting me to do your homework for you?

[MissKage]

Re: Hello, all.

Finally, a bit of honesty. You don't know.

Of course not. However, scientific theories have a significant amount of evidence supporting it. More than I can say for religion...

That page does not explain WHY the massively-dense universe would expand, against the pull of its own intense gravitational field. That's the question I asked. How about just admitting that you don't know, instead of expecting me to do your homework for you?

The Big Bang theory was the *cause* of the universe.

Where do I go to make a philosophical argument against the existence of God, by the way?

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Hello, all.

As an atheist, I do question my lack of belief, occasionally, yes. However, I have doubts you will be very successful in attempts to "convert" me.

This is because there is serious sin in your life that you wish to maintain rather than ask God for help with the wickedness. I'm guessing it is of filthy sexual nature (as is usually the case with atheists), but it could be any manner of foul sin.

Something is troubling you and making you lose sleep, young man. Otherwise you wouldn't be here beating around the bush and questioning yourself. We can help if you are honest. Will you let us?

In Christ

[MissKage]

Re: Hello, all.

This is because there is serious sin in your life that you wish to maintain rather than ask God for help with the wickedness. I'm guessing it is of filthy sexual nature (as is usually the case with atheists), but it could be any manner of foul sin.

Something is troubling you and making you lose sleep, young man. Otherwise you wouldn't be here beating around the bush and questioning yourself. We can help if you are honest. Will you let us?

In Christ

Sin based on Biblical text? Suppose Christians would say I've sinned, wouldn't call it serious, though. Obviously, I don't believe in your religion, and in effect the Bible, and in turn "sinning." *shrugs*

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Hello, all.

Sin based on Biblical text? Suppose Christians would say I've sinned, wouldn't call it serious, though. Obviously, I don't believe in your religion, and in effect the Bible, and in turn "sinning." *shrugs*

They're all serious!

(James 2:10) "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."



YiC,

Zech

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hello, all.

Yes, I saw what it says, but how exactly does an atheist answer those questions, eh? I am none of those things. I do respect Christianity, and no, I am not evil.



Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong, yeah. Could be. I'd actually not wish to go to hell, presuming it exists, no.

Also, in one of the "Guide threads" on this forum it says intellectual discussion with atheists is permitted. Just seems odd to be getting bashed with the first two posts in an intro thread.

If the truth feels like I bashed you that's your sense of sin talking.

How bored do you think we get by atheists marching in demanding a debate? The debate is over - God is as real as He is whether you believe in Him or not. You won't be the first surprised atheist in Hell.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello, all.

Where do I go to make a philosophical argument against the existence of God, by the way?

If by "philosophical argument" you mean "Mister Kage has this thought," then save it. If you have proof, I'm all ears.

[MissKage]

Re: Hello, all.

If the truth feels like I bashed you that's your sense of sin talking.

How bored do you think we get by atheists marching in demanding a debate? The debate is over - God is as real as He is whether you believe in Him or not. You won't be the first surprised atheist in Hell.

So... You believe I, an atheist, will be cast into Hell simply because I disbelieve in God, even if I was a good person in my lifetime?

If by "philosophical argument" you mean "Mister Kage has this thought," then save it. If you have proof, I'm all ears.

Nope. It's a very well established argument against the existence of God. Also, quite a strong one, in my opinion.

Here is a basic outline of what this argument consists of (Taken from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy):

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. (As defined by Christian theologians and philosophers.)
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to elimiate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God does not have the power to eliminate all evil, or does not know when evil exists, or does not have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Conclusion: Therefore, God doesn't exist.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello, all.

So... You believe I, an atheist, will be cast into Hell simply because I disbelieve in God, even if I was a good person in my lifetime?

Unless you believe in Christ Jesus, you will die condemned for your sins:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18

Nope. It's a very well established argument against the existence of God. Also, quite a strong one, in my opinion.

Here is a basic outline of what this argument consists of (Taken from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy):

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. (As defined by Christian theologians and philosophers.)
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to elimiate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God does not have the power to eliminate all evil, or does not know when evil exists, or does not have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Conclusion: Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Your breakdown is in your ignorance of who God is.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

[MissKage]

Re: Hello, all.

Unless you believe in Christ Jesus, you will die condemned for your sins

Oh? So if I believe in Jesus Christ, in that he was historical figure, but had no supernatural abilities, then I'll be free from Hell? I see...

Your breakdown is in your ignorance of who God is.

Not even a refutation against the PoE... *sigh*

And it is not my breakdown. It is the breakdown of Christians.
The Bible also deems God to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, as well, I believe.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, all.

Where do I go to make a philosophical argument against the existence of God, by the way?

Thought you were here for "intellectual discussion", not to proselytize.

Liar.

So... You believe I, an atheist, will be cast into Hell simply because I disbelieve in God, even if I was a good person in my lifetime?

That's what the Bible says. You're an atheist, what do you care? Worried?

Nope. It's a very well established argument against the existence of God. Also, quite a strong one, in my opinion.

Here is a basic outline of what this argument consists of (Taken from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy):

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. (As defined by Christian theologians and philosophers.)
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to elimiate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God does not have the power to eliminate all evil, or does not know when evil exists, or does not have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Conclusion: Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Ooooh, someone restated Epicurus! I guess I will just have to abandon God and become a hate-filled atheist!

Sorry, but "evil" is decided by God, not by humans. "Good" is obedience to God. "Evil" is disobedience to God.

Your secular humanist values, of what you think to be good and evil, are irrelevant. Those are subjective. When a country attacks your nation, you consider them evil. But they consider you to be evil, that's why they're attacking.

When you support sodomarriage, people who support traditional marriage think you're evil. Meanwhile, you think they are evil.

However, those wholly subjective ideas are the values you mean when you say "good" and "evil" above.

Second, omnibenevolence (love of everybody) is not a Biblical concept. It was created by liars who wanted to keep people coming back and putting money in the collection plate. There are scores of verses explaining who God hates, using precisely the word "hate". Maybe you should try reading the Bible before you come here and tell us what it says.

Third, God creates good AND evil, as my good Sister in Christ Mary has pointed out.

[MissKage]

Re: Hello, all.

Ooooh, someone restated Epicurus! I guess I will just have to abandon God and become a hate-filled atheist!

How are atheists "hate-filled"?

Sorry, but "evil" is decided by God, not by humans.

This implies evil is objective, which is obviously false, as you and I have differing opinions of what defined evil.

"Good" is obedience to God. "Evil" is disobedience to God.

Stupid definitions are stupid. I am not evil.

Your secular humanist values, of what you think to be good and evil, are irrelevant. Those are subjective. When a country attacks your nation, you consider them evil. But they consider you to be evil, that's why they're attacking.

The correct definition of evil is "morally wrong or bad." Morally is subjective, as well, thus evil is subjective. Please don't try to make the "morality is objective" argument, by the way. And no, I wouldn't consider those countries to be evil.

When you support sodomarriage, people who support traditional marriage think you're evil. Meanwhile, you think they are evil.

How does differing opinions make someone evil?

Second, omnibenevolence (love of everybody) is not a Biblical concept.

False, again. Omnibenevolence is "infinite benevolence," which would be infinite goodness, which would have the Judeo-Christian God the desire to eliminate evil?

It was created by liars who wanted to keep people coming back and putting money in the collection plate. There are scores of verses explaining who God hates, using precisely the word "hate". Maybe you should try reading the Bible before you come here and tell us what it says.

*facepalm* I says "I believe" that the Bible said God has those qualities, meaning I was not sure. And you deny Christian philospoher's studies?

Third, God creates good AND evil, as my good Sister in Christ Mary has pointed out.

If the Judeo-Christian God created evil, then God is not omnibenevolent.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hello, all.

Ooooh, someone restated Epicurus! I guess I will just have to abandon God and become a hate-filled atheist!

Reverend, that was so funny, I thought I'd memorialize it in The Cosmic Jewish Zombie Hall of Shame.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hello, all.

So... You believe I, an atheist, will be cast into Hell simply because I disbelieve in God, even if I was a good person in my lifetime?



Nope. It's a very well established argument against the existence of God. Also, quite a strong one, in my opinion.

Here is a basic outline of what this argument consists of (Taken from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy):

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. (As defined by Christian theologians and philosophers.)
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to elimiate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God does not have the power to eliminate all evil, or does not know when evil exists, or does not have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Conclusion: Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Still avoiding the questions. Stanford's 'Conclusion' is only valid if God were man (and even then, not really), which everyone knows He is not. He is the supreme being and as such, mortal rules do not apply to Him.
Since when does being 'morally perfect' mean you want to eliminate evil? Evil and morals are two totally different things. Have you not heard of 'Honor among thieves'?

You see friend, being a community college philosophy 101 summer school major like you are, it is obvious you are devoid of original thought. This is why when pressed, you are compelled to use other peoples (often flawed, but you are unaware and cannot tell for yourself) works.

You can use your lines of BS on drunken bar sluts and you will probably get some Syphilis. But True Christians(tm) base their 'philosophy on cold hard facts, not one of which you have provided.
Hint:A 'conclusion' is not a fact, it is a 'theory'. A 'theory' is a 'guess'. All your facts are 'guesses'.