[Levi Jones]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Great response, really professional.

I'm glad you approve, Sheldon. Your response was outstanding as well. It was one very well thought out piece of prose.

[Sheldon the Swede]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

She-devil! Why are you here? Did satan send you?

Great response, really professional.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Why can't everyone accept that everybody has different opinions? If you believe in God, that's great! Believe in Him. If you believe in Buddha, that's great too! Believe in Him. If you believe in many gods such as the Native Americans, that's great as well! Believe in them. Nobody is less of a person for having different beliefs, it's what we do as humans about those beliefs or for those beliefs that define us. Everybody deserves respect for their opinion. As soon as you begin to hurt another for their opinions, i believe that you no longer deserve any form of respect; and yes, that is my opinion, not a fact. Just remember that everything you believe is your personal opinion and everybody else in America is entitled to theirs. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech people.

By the way, I am not directing this post to anyone in particular, I just feel like there is a lack of respect on both sides in this forum.

She-devil! Why are you here? Did satan send you?

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.

[Miss OpenMinded]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Of course i don't sypathize with terrorits. Like i said; "Nobody is less of a person for having different beliefs, it's what we do as humans about those beliefs or for those beliefs that define us."

"I'm taking sides and my side is going to win because Jesus will lead us to salvation while all others will perish in the lake of fire. It's not too late for you, too, to accept Jesus as your savior and protect your soul from going to hell. Doesn't that sound like a good deal?"

That is your opinion and I respect that. I'm very happy that you are going to heaven

I will admit that I haven't read the Bible and I will admit that I've read the Constitution instead, but I don't believe that's so bad. It is what we live our life by in the US, so shouldn't we all read it as it applies to everyone whereas the Bible only applies to those who "believe"? Again. Just an opinion.

[Nobar King]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

By the way, I am not directing this post to anyone in particular, I just feel like there is a lack of respect on both sides in this forum.

There is only one side on this forum, and that is the right side. I don't think you are on that side.

You might be a youngster and not remember the events on 9/11/2001. That was when the islamofascists escalated their holy war against the U.S.A. Are you a terrorist sympathizer, since you have so much respect for people who believe that flying planes into buildings is such a great way to get your message of peace across?

I'm taking sides and my side is going to win because Jesus will lead us to salvation while all others will perish in the lake of fire. It's not too late for you, too, to accept Jesus as your savior and protect your soul from going to hell. Doesn't that sound like a good deal?

Freedom of religion and freedom of speech people.

Someone has been reading his U.S. Constitution and not his Holy Bible, again.

[Miss OpenMinded]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Why can't everyone accept that everybody has different opinions? If you believe in God, that's great! Believe in Him. If you believe in Buddha, that's great too! Believe in Him. If you believe in many gods such as the Native Americans, that's great as well! Believe in them. Nobody is less of a person for having different beliefs, it's what we do as humans about those beliefs or for those beliefs that define us. Everybody deserves respect for their opinion. As soon as you begin to hurt another for their opinions, i believe that you no longer deserve any form of respect; and yes, that is my opinion, not a fact. Just remember that everything you believe is your personal opinion and everybody else in America is entitled to theirs. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech people.

By the way, I am not directing this post to anyone in particular, I just feel like there is a lack of respect on both sides in this forum.

[Bible Student]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

You assume that I don't get scripture, when in fact we have the same material and come to separate conclusions.

Are you certain you are using the 1611 King James Bible instead of all those newer bastardizations? I'm not criticizing. I just want to make sure you are doing every thing you can so that one day you too might be called a True Christian. The Good Lord knows I myself have to make do with an authentic reproduction of the 1611 King James Bible because I could not afford the $521,000 one sold for the last time one was on the auction block.

I have to go now and study my 1611 King James Bible.

Obviously we aren't going to make much of an impact on each other, so I see no real point in continuing this conversation.

you may be a True Christian, but my warning to you is to make sure you don't stay one in name only.

Can't you see the True Christian by his name? That means he is certifiable. He is definitely a True Christian not only in name but also in print. Jesus loves him and he knows he is saved.

[Mistress Cookie]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

As with the matter of the rapist [being forced to marry the rapee], I don't really see how it would be a punishment.

There are exceptions of course (such as a gentleman going to bed in the wrong, darkened room of his house and having his "wife" submit by mistake, only to discover in the morning he was in the guest bedroom), but modern day sociologists tell us that "rape" is most usually an act of aggression, violence and hatred. Do these men really want to be shackled forever to someone they hate, or that they only met once for 5 minutes in an alley, or on an unguarded subway platform?

Even if it were a "date rape", how many men would want to be forced to marry someone they'd only met once, on a first date?

Clearly being forced to marry the rapee in these situations would be a punishment. Every young boy dreams of a fairytale wedding, and that would then be taken away from him.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

You assume that I don't get scripture, when in fact we have the same material and come to separate conclusions.

We come to separate conclusions because we approach the source material differently. This church teaches that the whole thing is to be taken seriously. You, on the other hand, cherry-pick the parts that you like and ignore the rest.

[Jedediah]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

You assume that I don't get scripture, when in fact we have the same material and come to separate conclusions. Obviously we aren't going to make much of an impact on each other, so I see no real point in continuing this conversation.

We accept your surrender and exhort you to take your faith more seriously.

We arrive at the conclusion that the path of righteousness is to follow and believe in the entire Bible to the letter, as God commands.

Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Matthew 4:4
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I'm not sure how we can be reading the same Bible and yet arriving at different conclusions on how to conduct our lives unless you are cherry-picking which verses of Scripture you believe in and which ones you feel to be in a position to reject.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

My warning to you is not to succumb to vanity and think that your opinions supercede the Word of God. Trust not in your worldly knowledge. God left us instructions for a reason: to follow them.

Isaiah 29:14
Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

I Corinthians 3:18-20
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

[Sword of the Spirit]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

You assume that I don't get scripture, when in fact we have the same material and come to separate conclusions. Obviously we aren't going to make much of an impact on each other, so I see no real point in continuing this conversation.

you may be a True Christian, but my warning to you is to make sure you don't stay one in name only.

[James Hutchins]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Aye. Perhaps a direct approach is too confrontational.

Here's a more conversational approach. I think that you guys are actual Christians, only that you're a bit legalistic on your views. Hey, I'm okay with that, it's just that I think that you're complicating God's grace. (I can already feel the counter-arguments...) Jesus' opponents were almost always the Pharisees, who wanted to make sure that the law was followed to the letter and so overlooked many of Jesus' miracles.

The old testament contains many truths, but I believe that the core bits of our (yes, you and me) theology should come from the new testament, as it is what deals with us specifically. Yes I know that Jesus came to fulfill the law, as Paul says, "I am not free from God's law, but am under Christ's law". However, if we just point fingers at people and follow the Bible to the letter, we may find ourselves overlooking the true miracle of God.

The Bible is just a book. Granted, it's the book of God inspired and God-breathed, but if we really want to get somewhere, we can look at the book for information, or we can go to the source. "If anyone lacks wisdom, let him go to God who is the source of wisdom."

I may simply be considered 'the straw man' on this forum, but the one who made me calls me his friend.

Friend, I will not try to confuse you with scripture as obviously, it has all gone right over your head.
The Bible, is a collection of how to Live according to God. In it, it states you must follow the Bible to be in His good graces and go to Heaven. Simple. No where in the Bible does it say 'Old Testament - Optional' or 'Deuteronomy - OK to Skip'. You have to follow all of it. If you think parts are wrong, you need to work that out with God. You, as one of His children, do not have the right to pick and choose what parts to follow, only He has that right. Failure to do as He commands means you are not a True Christian(tm), plain and simple. It was done this way so even stupid people could understand it. Do you need any clarification?

[Jedediah]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

I may simply be considered 'the straw man' on this forum, but the one who made me calls me his friend.

Pastor Isaac was not calling you a name. He was identifying the logical fallacy you employed. If anyone is being persecuted here, it is us.

To address a few points from your previous posts:

Remember the verse John 8:7? The verses after that state that the people began to leave, the older ones first (the wisest of the people), until all were gone. Keep in mind these are the people that studied the scriptures (The Bible) intently, and kept it down to the letter.

I remember John 8:7 very well and in context. In fact, I mentioned the misinterpretation of this verse in this very thread several months ago.

John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke were born in sin just as we all are (e.g., Psalm 51:5). The difference between the Pharisees and True Christians™, though, is that True Christians™ have been washed in the Blood of Jesus while the Pharisees had not. You can study all the Scripture you want, but unless one has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal LORD and Savior and has been baptized in His Name, there is no way one can have his or her sins washed away. It is only through the Blood of Christ that we are made perfect.

Further, Jesus here illustrates His Grace. Instead of condemning the harlot, he exhorts her to live as a True Christian™ and commit no more sin. It's not just a matter of having our sins washed away; as True Christians™, we are incapable of sin!

I John 3:6-9
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

I think the biggest issue lies in the question of 'why' to each one of God's commands. He gives them to us for a reason, not just because he felt like it. He wants us to live in harmony with each other, and these laws simply help out.

Can you support this argument with Scripture, or is this an expression of how you feel about God's Word?

Yes, I would say that he cleansed us, but it is possible to dirty our hands again.

Again, can you support this with Scripture, or is this a non-Biblical personal opinion? The following verses contradict your assertion that Salvation™ can be impermanent.

John 10:28-29
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jude 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

If, in your heart, you still feel as though you are susceptible to temptation, then you have some very serious questions to ask yourself about your supposed salvation. As True Christians™, we know in our hearts that once we are Saved®, we are always Saved®. There are many false churches out there that teach false doctrine and lead people who are not Saved® to believe they are. Jesus warned us about these.

Matthew 7:13-15
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

If, as I suspect, you have fallen prey to one of these ravening wolves, then I am gladdened that the LORD has brought you here, that you may discover True Doctrine™.

[Levi Jones]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Aye. Perhaps a direct approach is too confrontational.

Here's a more conversational approach. I think that you guys are actual Christians, only that you're a bit legalistic on your views.

That's the nicest insult I have had all month.

Hey, I'm okay with that, it's just that I think that you're complicating God's grace. (I can already feel the counter-arguments...) Jesus' opponents were almost always the Pharisees, who wanted to make sure that the law was followed to the letter and so overlooked many of Jesus' miracles.

The Pharisees only believed in Gen, Ex., Lev. and Deut. They were only concerned with the Law. I think you will find we are much more diverse in our readings. We accept the entire Old Testament and the New Testament.

The old testament contains many truths, but I believe that the core bits of our (yes, you and me) theology should come from the new testament,

Most of the New Testament comes from the Old.

Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Where did Jesus get those sayings from?

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:17-18 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

What did Jesus say when Satan tried to tempt Him?

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Where did Jesus get that from?

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

So tell me where Jesus came to abolish the law?

"I am not free from God's law, but am under Christ's law"

As lain out in Matthew 5? Perhaps you have read it.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[Sword of the Spirit]

Re: True Christians are Perfect!

Aye. Perhaps a direct approach is too confrontational.

Here's a more conversational approach. I think that you guys are actual Christians, only that you're a bit legalistic on your views. Hey, I'm okay with that, it's just that I think that you're complicating God's grace. (I can already feel the counter-arguments...) Jesus' opponents were almost always the Pharisees, who wanted to make sure that the law was followed to the letter and so overlooked many of Jesus' miracles.

The old testament contains many truths, but I believe that the core bits of our (yes, you and me) theology should come from the new testament, as it is what deals with us specifically. Yes I know that Jesus came to fulfill the law, as Paul says, "I am not free from God's law, but am under Christ's law". However, if we just point fingers at people and follow the Bible to the letter, we may find ourselves overlooking the true miracle of God.

The Bible is just a book. Granted, it's the book of God inspired and God-breathed, but if we really want to get somewhere, we can look at the book for information, or we can go to the source. "If anyone lacks wisdom, let him go to God who is the source of wisdom."

I may simply be considered 'the straw man' on this forum, but the one who made me calls me his friend.